Teslas and other electric vehicles

[moonpie23]

so, i took the Tesla to charlotte for the panthers game this past weekend....i stopped at a tesla SUPER CHARGER right outside of charlotte to "gas up"....it was at a shopping center anchored with a Harris Teeter store, with a coldstone creamery and other stores..

There are 8 charging stations, 4 were available when i drove up (the navigation told me that there were 5 available as i was heading there, then updated to 4 when i was about a mile away.) I restored 100% charge in 26 minutes which gave me 355 miles ....it cost $12.46

We got some snacks and ice cream and charging was done when we got back to the car...that would have cost $45 in my old mercedes (had to have premium)

i'm doing a 3 month data comparison including purchased super charging, and increased home electrical bills.

[elvis14]

so, i took the Tesla to charlotte for the panthers game this past weekend...i stopped at a tesla SUPER CHARGER right outside of charlotte to "gas up"...it was at a shopping center anchored with a Harris Teeter store, with a coldstone creamery and other stores..

There are 8 charging stations, 4 were available when i drove up (the navigation told me that there were 5 available as i was heading there, then updated to 4 when i was about a mile away.) I restored 100% charge in 26 minutes which gave me 355 miles ...it cost $12.46

We got some snacks and ice cream and charging was done when we got back to the car...that would have cost $45 in my old mercedes (had to have premium)

i'm doing a 3 month data comparison including purchased super charging, and increased home electrical bills.

Thanks for the update. I hope you'll post your data comparison once it's complete. Although I don't have an EV yet, I love data about them, especially first hand, real world data like this.

[moonpie23]

the rub is...there are PLENTY of chargers around...but most of them are S-L-O-W (albeit free)....like, gotta leave them plugged up for 10hrs to get a full charge. (well, on a Long Range anyway) So you start looking for the real fast ones and those are not as plentiful....

I don't care to leave my new Tesla in a parking garage un-attended over night just to get a free charge....

[Bluedog]

the rub is...there are PLENTY of chargers around...but most of them are S-L-O-W (albeit free)...like, gotta leave them plugged up for 10hrs to get a full charge. (well, on a Long Range anyway) So you start looking for the real fast ones and those are not as plentiful...

I don't care to leave my new Tesla in a parking garage un-attended over night just to get a free charge...

Yep, just read this article about someone renting an EV for a road trip in California (where chargers are more ubiquitous). He intentionally did NOT choose a Tesla though given that network is stronger:

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/24/cnbc...-new-cars.html
"CNBC road test: The U.S. EV charging network isn’t ready for your family road trip, let alone the expected wave of new cars"

They bring up a good point that if more people start buying EVs, this will only get worse. Nobody wants to wait 45 minutes in line to THEN charge for 45 minutes as you're heading across country...

"Finding a charger wasn’t a problem in California, it was the time it takes to get a full charge."
"It takes about 10 minutes to fill your car with a tank of gas but about 45 minutes to fully charge an EV, sometimes longer."

Electric cars may be the future, but the future needs to speed up. And by that, we mean charging speeds have got to accelerate as quickly as the Polestar 2 at a green light: 45 minutes every 200 miles or so won’t cut it for any family looking to make a longer road trip.

We didn’t see a shortage of chargers. Even in the desert we found chargers to use. There is, however, a shortage of chargers in places you really want to stop. Ultimately, I think the EV play is less about cars and more about real estate.

The more EVs on the road, the more charging stations that will be needed. There’s not a lot of demand for them right now, so charging ports were plentiful on our trip. But just think of 20 cars sitting for 45 minutes or more at a time at a single charging station. That takes up a lot of time and space.

In other words, in order to have a similar infrastructure to gas stations, you'd need MORE charging stations than gas stations currently exist if the same # of EVs exist on the road. That's a lot to build and a LOT of space.

[PackMan97]

We really need to get to the point where we have battery swap stations, as part of the original Tesla vision back in the day.



The only question is could the world (or even a country) standardize on a single technology (or at least a manageable number of technologies) to make it feasible?

[Bluedog]

We really need to get to the point where we have battery swap stations, as part of the original Tesla vision back in the day.

The only question is could the world (or even a country) standardize on a single technology (or at least a manageable number of technologies) to make it feasible?

Yeah good idea in theory, but the batteries are ridiculously expensive so people probably don't want to swap a "new" battery for a battery that has been used 1,000 times. Even if on the same technology, I don't think it's an apples-to-apples swap given differences in battery age, etc. (At least, I assume as they age, they deteriorate somewhat). That's a heavy depreciation cost somebody just ate for a swap (I think at least...).

[mkirsh]

Yep, just read this article about someone renting an EV for a road trip in California (where chargers are more ubiquitous). He intentionally did NOT choose a Tesla though given that network is stronger:

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/24/cnbc...-new-cars.html
"CNBC road test: The U.S. EV charging network isn’t ready for your family road trip, let alone the expected wave of new cars"

They bring up a good point that if more people start buying EVs, this will only get worse. Nobody wants to wait 45 minutes in line to THEN charge for 45 minutes as you're heading across country...

"Finding a charger wasn’t a problem in California, it was the time it takes to get a full charge."
"It takes about 10 minutes to fill your car with a tank of gas but about 45 minutes to fully charge an EV, sometimes longer."



In other words, in order to have a similar infrastructure to gas stations, you'd need MORE charging stations than gas stations currently exist if the same # of EVs exist on the road. That's a lot to build and a LOT of space.

There are three variables, all of which will improve over time: 1) number of charging stations, which I assume will continue to grow as EVs become more plentiful; 2) charging speeds, which continue to increase (new Tesla's charge at a rate of 15 miles per minute); and 3) battery capacity, where manufacturers are looking to build cars with 400-500 mile batteries. If you regularly take road trips over 6 hours, EVs you are correct that will certainly add a lot of time today, but I feel all of these factors are moving in the right direction and can envision a place in the not too distant future where you will be able to drive 400 miles and charge in 20 minutes.

[PackMan97]

Yeah good idea in theory, but the batteries are ridiculously expensive so people probably don't want to swap a "new" battery for a battery that has been used 1,000 times. Even if on the same technology, I don't think it's an apples-to-apples swap given differences in battery age, etc. (At least, I assume as they age, they deteriorate somewhat). That's a heavy depreciation cost somebody just ate for a swap (I think at least...).

I think the idea is that you swap every time you charge the battery. You no longer really "own" the battery. think of it as "blue rhino" for electric cars. You buy the car and that's your "deposit", you get lifetime swaps from there.

[Bluedog]

I think the idea is that you swap every time you charge the battery. You no longer really "own" the battery. think of it as "blue rhino" for electric cars. You buy the car and that's your "deposit", you get lifetime swaps from there.

Got it, yeah, that makes some sense but I guess there's a reason it hasn't taken off. Maybe not so easy to remove and install a new battery?

There are three variables, all of which will improve over time: 1) number of charging stations, which I assume will continue to grow as EVs become more plentiful; 2) charging speeds, which continue to increase (new Tesla's charge at a rate of 15 miles per minute); and 3) battery capacity, where manufacturers are looking to build cars with 400-500 mile batteries. If you regularly take road trips over 6 hours, EVs you are correct that will certainly add a lot of time today, but I feel all of these factors are moving in the right direction and can envision a place in the not too distant future where you will be able to drive 400 miles and charge in 20 minutes.

I hope so.

[moonpie23]

If you regularly take road trips over 6 hours, EVs you are correct that will certainly add a lot of time today, but I feel all of these factors are moving in the right direction and can envision a place in the not too distant future where you will be able to drive 400 miles and charge in 20 minutes.

this...

it's getting better...one of the side topics is whether or not elon musk will open up the tesla charging network to ALL ev's...

[Indoor66]

Is there a universal standard for plug connection for all ev's?

[camion]

Is there a universal standard for plug connection for all ev's?

Sounds like the gubment needs to get involved to set some standards.

You know sort of like there are standards for gas pumps and such.

I'm sure we'll all get a charge out of the process.

[OldPhiKap]

Is there a universal standard for plug connection for all ev's?

No, there are different plugs and different voltages as I understand it. Sort of a VCR/Betamax/LaserDisc thing going on.

[FUBARDoorBuster]

Is there a universal standard for plug connection for all ev's?

Our family has a Ford Fusion PHEV from 2015 with a level two charger. Its data tells us we get over 100 eMPG, the battery drives 12-20 miles, then hybrid. We mainly charge at home in a regular outlet for the next day
I also drive a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV 2018 with level two and a tesla supercharger port, which I have never used. Doesn't have the same data projection for an eMPH, but I get 25-30 miles electric and I would guess 80% of my miles are electric. On a longer trip, it has been able to re-generate the battery at least twice, for instance from Asheville to Durham, and gives another 20 miles electric each time. Our utility is a local Duke power site that was originally coal, now has changed to natural gas. We live in the mountains and can't get solar on the roof. But after switching to all LED lights, the electric bill did not go up. Not enough chargers to think Tesla yet.

In saying this, there already too many battery designs to use interchangeable batteries, though that would have been the ideal. I remember something about Israel trying to develop a battery platform that different models would share.
As an alternative, I feel the best design for a long trip would be a small trailer that would hold excess power to complete a 1000 mile drive. A Tesla design could fit as an aerodynamic tail add-on, poss on two extra wheels. Other models could be wired to pull in current from a small Ryder or Uhaul-sized battery trailer. Drop it off at the destination and pick up another for the return trip. These could solve the interchangeable issue without needing the extra capacity, and battery weight, for everyday use. Or you wouldnt need to wait to charge, just swap if you need to keep on moving. The trailer could even generate power for its own wheels to limit the drag on the main engine. Also, a PHEV could plug in to access the larger battery and go all electric for a longer trip. Just brainstorming...

[FUBARDoorBuster]

I feel the best design for a long trip would be a small trailer that would hold excess power to complete a 1000 mile drive.

Sorry for the wrong nomenclature, I meant MPGe, not .. whatever.
In my mind, imagine taking the Tesla wallpack off the wall and onto the back of the car.
Ford is thinking of this for the electric F150, a toolbox that would fit in the bed, look like a standard fit but contain a range extending battery. Not sure the weight, or how easily it could be moved to replace with standard tool box for other uses. But the range extender could also serve as an onsite power source, or still work as a back-up for the home to receive power from solar panels. Like carrying that wall pack with you. I assume this will be an add-on option, but makes sense for work crews, utility service trucks, or families looking for a longer drive. The idea should be supported with its own separate tax rebate( better than a tax credit)
Now lets put one on wheels.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...pickup-patent/

[Indoor66]

Sorry for the wrong nomenclature, I meant MPGe, not .. whatever.
In my mind, imagine taking the Tesla wallpack off the wall and onto the back of the car.
Ford is thinking of this for the electric F150, a toolbox that would fit in the bed, look like a standard fit but contain a range extending battery. Not sure the weight, or how easily it could be moved to replace with standard tool box for other uses. But the range extender could also serve as an onsite power source, or still work as a back-up for the home to receive power from solar panels. Like carrying that wall pack with you. I assume this will be an add-on option, but makes sense for work crews, utility service trucks, or families looking for a longer drive. The idea should be supported with its own separate tax rebate( better than a tax credit)
Now lets put one on wheels.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...pickup-patent/

Ahh, lest we forget the joinder of the taxpayer into the mix.

[budwom]

Here's a beauty for you Tesla folks (might even give you some extra-legal notions). A Tesla burned up on the ice of Lake Champlain a couple years ago, the driver said he was going ice fishing (at night), which was nonsensical...now we learn what happened: https://www.sevendaysvt.com/OffMessa...ling-five-cars

So maybe you can take delivery of your next Tesla without actually paying for it?

[Phredd3]

No, there are different plugs and different voltages as I understand it. Sort of a VCR/Betamax/LaserDisc thing going on.

It's still a bit of the wild west, but Tesla has adopted the NEMA 14-50 as the default, and that seems to be getting adopted as kind of a de facto standard.

[TruBlu]

It's still a bit of the wild west, but Tesla has adopted the NEMA 14-50 as the default, and that seems to be getting adopted as kind of a de facto standard.

Sony will still be pushing Beta.

[Phredd3]

Sony will still be pushing Beta.

Except in Sony's case, there was money to be made with Beta. The 220 plug standards are non-proprietary, so nobody makes money choosing one over another. Some have been choosing the NEMA 6-50 because it is fractionally less expensive to install, or one of the vintage standard dryer plugs with one less wire, but it also is not RV-compatible. Most consumers of EVs are fairly high-end consumers and want the versatility to preserve resale value.