Teslas and other electric vehicles

[Bluedog]

I just read an article this morning basically saying the current U.S. gov't wants to increase MPG standards by 2032 that are impossible for manufacturers to meet without really going full hog into EVs. And that ICE vehicles have basically achieved as much efficiency as they can and it's not possible for them to average 40+ mpg. There are diminishing returns. A Honda Civic is like 35 mpg so manufacturing more Civics would NOT help them achieve the goal. Of course, if a new admin comes in, goals/regulations can change (as we've seen in the past). But if those "stick", it will be impossible for manufacturers to achieve the goals without basically only producing EVs. Right now, I think it's like 7% of the market. It'd need to be ~70% according to the article I read. We'll see what happens of course. Would require major investments/improvements in the charging network and electric grid capacities, etc.

[duke79]

I just read an article this morning basically saying the current U.S. gov't wants to increase MPG standards by 2032 that are impossible for manufacturers to meet without really going full hog into EVs. And that ICE vehicles have basically achieved as much efficiency as they can and it's not possible for them to average 40+ mpg. There are diminishing returns. A Honda Civic is like 35 mpg so manufacturing more Civics would NOT help them achieve the goal. Of course, if a new admin comes in, goals/regulations can change (as we've seen in the past). But if those "stick", it will be impossible for manufacturers to achieve the goals without basically only producing EVs. Right now, I think it's like 7% of the market. It'd need to be ~70% according to the article I read. We'll see what happens of course. Would require major investments/improvements in the charging network and electric grid capacities, etc.

Plus, the auto manufacturers would have to figure out how to make more affordable EV's - I'm guessing at least half the people (or more) in the country can not afford to buy an electric vehicle today, even with the federal and state tax credits. What are those people going to do - ride bikes everywhere?

[Bluedog]

[/B]
Plus, the auto manufacturers would have to figure out how to make more affordable EV's - I'm guessing at least half the people (or more) in the country can not afford to buy an electric vehicle today, even with the federal and state tax credits. What are those people going to do - ride bikes everywhere?

Buy used cars? I could see a huge price increase/demand in the used ICE car market ironically. (Which already occurred the last couple of years.)

I do think a couple of brands have affordability in their plans (GM most apparently).

[budwom]

I think it's good that the Gov is trying to incent both consumers and manufacturers...yeah, there may be a bunch of delays, but without aggressive goals, not much is going to happen. Given the assertion that the average EV sells for $58,000 now (the average vehicle sold is up to $48,000, somewhat driven upwards by truck prices) it's going to take some time. The Chinese are going to be yooge exporters of inexpensive EVs but I'm not sure how many are going to end up in the U.S...

[Indoor66]

Buy used cars? I could see a huge price increase/demand in the used ICE car market ironically. (Which already occurred the last couple of years.)

I do think a couple of brands have affordability in their plans (GM most apparently).

We can all become like Cuban car owners.

[elvis14]

[/B]
Plus, the auto manufacturers would have to figure out how to make more affordable EV's - I'm guessing at least half the people (or more) in the country can not afford to buy an electric vehicle today, even with the federal and state tax credits. What are those people going to do - ride bikes everywhere?

What are the prices for all electric cars?



The Cheapest Electric Cars for 2023

• 2023 Chevrolet Bolt EV LT—$27,495. Chevrolet.
• 2023 Chevrolet Bolt EUV LT—$28,795. ...
• 2023 Nissan Leaf S—$29,135. ...
• 2023 Mini Cooper SE Hardtop Signature—$30,895. ...
• 2023 Hyundai Kona Electric SE—$34,885. ...
• 2023 Mazda MX-30—$35,385. ...
• 2023 Volkswagen ID.4 Standard—$40,290. ...
• 2023 Kia Niro EV Wind—$40,875

Average cost of a new car: $48700 (this is random Google search result, the list above was a well but is from Car and Driver)

[Phredd3]

What are the prices for all electric cars?

The Cheapest Electric Cars for 2023

• 2023 Chevrolet Bolt EV LT—$27,495. Chevrolet.
• 2023 Chevrolet Bolt EUV LT—$28,795. ...
• 2023 Nissan Leaf S—$29,135. ...
• 2023 Mini Cooper SE Hardtop Signature—$30,895. ...
• 2023 Hyundai Kona Electric SE—$34,885. ...
• 2023 Mazda MX-30—$35,385. ...
• 2023 Volkswagen ID.4 Standard—$40,290. ...
• 2023 Kia Niro EV Wind—$40,875

Average cost of a new car: $48700 (this is random Google search result, the list above was a well but is from Car and Driver)

Edited to remove the faded color and raise font size so that the list is more easily readable.

[elvis14]

Edited to remove the faded color and raise font size so that the list is more easily readable.

Thank you! Looked different when I edited it.

[TheDevilMadeMeDoIt]

Edited to remove the faded color and raise font size so that the list is more easily readable.

That makes the Bolt which will remain eligible for at least 1/2 the $7,000 tax credit very affordable. The problem right now is the issue of availability. When I hear people and the car companies complain they can’t do this, they ignore the advances to be made in battery technology over the next decade. This time period also allows for ample improvement to the power grid. Just read an interesting article about China to require all solar and wind projects to include industrial battery storage for 20% of power generated to provide power at night and during windless days.

I have an electric ordered and can’t wait to bypass gas stations, the line at Costco etc. Admittedly I will still drive an ICE vehicle on long trips until more high speed charging options on the interstates. Even that will change rather quickly as more electric vehicles are built.

One other point in regard to the price of electric vehicles being expensive, have you checked out the price of an F150 or a Chevy Suburban. They’re not giving those away.

[elvis14]

One other point in regard to the price of electric vehicles being expensive, have you checked out the price of an F150 or a Chevy Suburban. They’re not giving those away.

A friend of mine recently bought a Toyota Tundra. By the time he bought it, paid for a few add on's, etc it was $70k.
Obviously the cost of replacement batteries is currently expensive but over time the simplicity of the electric motors (and cost of batteries going down) is going to be a very good thing.

Of course when the engine in my wife's Mazda CX-9 blew last year, we ended up salvaging the car and buying something. Cost of a new engine was around $11k, which isn't all that different than the cost of a new battery.

Another think I'm waiting for is for the batteries to be serviceable. It's not like a car's battery is one big battery, it's a collection of batteries. We should be able to see which is one is having issues and replace it.

[budwom]

A friend of mine recently bought a Toyota Tundra. By the time he bought it, paid for a few add on's, etc it was $70k.
Obviously the cost of replacement batteries is currently expensive but over time the simplicity of the electric motors (and cost of batteries going down) is going to be a very good thing.

Of course when the engine in my wife's Mazda CX-9 blew last year, we ended up salvaging the car and buying something. Cost of a new engine was around $11k, which isn't all that different than the cost of a new battery.

Another think I'm waiting for is for the batteries to be serviceable. It's not like a car's battery is one big battery, it's a collection of batteries. We should be able to see which is one is having issues and replace it.

I know it's complicated, but there's something to be said for one Chinese system in which you just pull up to a facility and switch out your battery. Of course, this Blue Rhino approach could saddle you with a crappy battery. We still have a long way to go.

[Phredd3]

Another think I'm waiting for is for the batteries to be serviceable. It's not like a car's battery is one big battery, it's a collection of batteries. We should be able to see which is one is having issues and replace it.

In the old days, this was true. An EV hobbyist would monitor individual cells and swap out dying cells as needed. Most modern battery packs have a lot of complex interconnections to spread the load as evenly as possible across the individual cells, adjusting draw to each cell as needed to preserve the life of the overall set for as long as possible without requiring individual cell replacement. Also, the packs are typically fairly buried and they are very heavy, so taking the pack out to work on it or swap cells is a pretty big job. In general, the progression has been from simple and easily replaceable individual cells toward complex circuitry leading to treating a collection of cells as a single unit. Never say never, but I don't know that a regression back to simple and swappable cells will be on the horizon any time soon.

[camion]

Another think I'm waiting for is for the batteries to be serviceable. It's not like a car's battery is one big battery, it's a collection of batteries. We should be able to see which is one is having issues and replace it.

I believe the Mercedes AA Class sedan has this feature.

[PackMan97]

Auto manufacturers have all but killed their entry models. The folks that will be hot hardest are the rural poor that are car dependent, but won't be able to afford electric.

I would go off on a PPB rant, but I like my posting privilege.

[wavedukefan70s]

Auto manufacturers have all but killed their entry models. The folks that will be hot hardest are the rural poor that are car dependent, but won't be able to afford electric.

I would go off on a PPB rant, but I like my posting privilege.

Around here it will be bad. Our public transportation system is virtually non existent for rural destinations. It isn't very good as it is anyway.
I wonder if a retrofit will ever be a viable option .
I'd like to keep my tundra till it or I die.
Ev probably can with no issue but I just don't feel right about backing the boat in with a ev.

[-jk]

Around here it will be bad. Our public transportation system is virtually non existent for rural destinations. It isn't very good as it is anyway.
I wonder if a retrofit will ever be a viable option .
I'd like to keep my tundra till it or I die.
Ev probably can with no issue but I just don't feel right about backing the boat in with a ev.

Motortrend says the F150 can wade through 24" of water. How deep do you back in?

Heck, my Solterra will ford almost 20"

-jk

[killerleft]

Motortrend says the F150 can wade through 24" of water. How deep do you back in?

Heck, my Solterra will ford almost 20"

-jk

How many people will lose their lives believing they are invincible in high water, I wonder.

[-jk]

Completely different discussion. And, yeah, idiots will try to drive through flowing floodwaters. And lose. Stupid doesn’t care what sort of car you drive.

-jk

[camion]

Completely different discussion. And, yeah, idiots will try to drive through flowing floodwaters. And lose. Stupid doesn’t care what sort of car you drive.

-jk

Surely the sonar/lidar/radar on current vehicles can test for water depth and tell exactly when you fell into the pit.

[-jk]

Surely the sonar/lidar/radar on current vehicles can test for water depth and tell exactly when you fell into the pit.

And report it to your insurance co!

-jk