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  1. #221
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    raleigh
    Quote Originally Posted by burnspbesq View Post
    ICYMI.

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/18/cars/...lyn/index.html

    Esquire political columnist Charlie Pierceís riff on this is pure comedy gold, if you can find it (his pieces donít have much shelf life).
    that is why i didn't pony up 10 large for the full self driving....***** I ***** want to drive my car...occasionally, MRS pie will drive it.

    there are too many reasons for the self driving to make the wrong decision...
    "Either they're going down, or we are! Kirk out!"

  2. #222
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    North Carolina
    If the new infrastructure plan passes the senate the tax breaks on ev’s will be significantly changed.

    https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/e...-house-passes/


    Here's how the proposed changes shake out, and keep in mind, they may change yet. The base amount remains $4,000, as it is today, with another $3,500 available if the EV's battery pack includes at least 40 kilowatt-hours of capacity. In the case of plug-in hybrids, the gas tank cannot exceed 2.5 gallons. This is for cars placed in service before 2027. Now comes the $5,000 boost. EVs and consumers will be able to qualify for another $4,500 in the tax credit if an automaker makes the EV in the US with a union workforce. Another $500 comes into play for automakers using a US-made battery, for a maximum of $12,500 available. Today, the only car that would qualify for anywhere near the full proposed credit is the Chevrolet Bolt EV and Bolt EUV. This provision would, notably, exclude Tesla and even the Ford Mustang Mach-E, since it's assembled in Mexico.

    Xxxxxxx

    I have been really tempted to get an EV but now even more so...

  3. #223

    From a FSD Beta Tester

    Quote Originally Posted by moonpie23 View Post
    that is why i didn't pony up 10 large for the full self driving...***** I ***** want to drive my car...occasionally, MRS pie will drive it.

    there are too many reasons for the self driving to make the wrong decision...
    I am somewhat conflicted. I own and love my M3. I am an FSD Beta tester. I know it is not ready for prime time but understand that by gathering more data from more testers Tesla can use AI to improve the FSD. I think I wrote earlier that I think of it as providing data to Tesla rather than self driving around.

    However I do have some problems with the test. Drivers had to achieve an excellent what Tesla calls Safety Score in order get the Beta. However I am pretty sure I could loan my car to anyone who might drive it irresponsibly. In any case there are around 10000 drivers with the FSD Beta who have not had any special training in using it.

    I am kind of chicken and tend to intervene earlier than others. I have had some drives where the FSD Beta did an excellent job. There are situations that it does not hand well and some turns are pretty scary. It also follows the law, so a full and complete stop at every stop sign which seems to frustrate drivers behind me who wanted to roll through. When using it I tend to concentrate more on the road and see how poorly some others drive.

    SoCal

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by Furniture View Post
    Does the ID have adaptive cruise control?
    Yes, it does. Canít say much about it, since I donít use it.

    FWIW, lane-keeping assist works well (itís on by default at startup and I occasionally forget to turn it off).

  5. #225
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    raleigh
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalDukeFan View Post
    I am somewhat conflicted. I own and love my M3. I am an FSD Beta tester. I know it is not ready for prime time but understand that by gathering more data from more testers Tesla can use AI to improve the FSD. I think I wrote earlier that I think of it as providing data to Tesla rather than self driving around.

    However I do have some problems with the test. Drivers had to achieve an excellent what Tesla calls Safety Score in order get the Beta. However I am pretty sure I could loan my car to anyone who might drive it irresponsibly. In any case there are around 10000 drivers with the FSD Beta who have not had any special training in using it.

    I am kind of chicken and tend to intervene earlier than others. I have had some drives where the FSD Beta did an excellent job. There are situations that it does not hand well and some turns are pretty scary. It also follows the law, so a full and complete stop at every stop sign which seems to frustrate drivers behind me who wanted to roll through. When using it I tend to concentrate more on the road and see how poorly some others drive.

    SoCal
    i totally get it...it's going be improve and be wonderful...i just can't get over the feeling of it taking control...i use the enhanced cruise control, but it will scare the crap out of you on a piece of beltline that they are doing work on with new, uneven pavement and median concrete barriers and massive 5 o clock traffic...
    "Either they're going down, or we are! Kirk out!"

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by Furniture View Post
    If the new infrastructure plan passes the senate the tax breaks on ev’s will be significantly changed.

    https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/e...-house-passes/


    Here's how the proposed changes shake out, and keep in mind, they may change yet. The base amount remains $4,000, as it is today, with another $3,500 available if the EV's battery pack includes at least 40 kilowatt-hours of capacity. In the case of plug-in hybrids, the gas tank cannot exceed 2.5 gallons. This is for cars placed in service before 2027. Now comes the $5,000 boost. EVs and consumers will be able to qualify for another $4,500 in the tax credit if an automaker makes the EV in the US with a union workforce. Another $500 comes into play for automakers using a US-made battery, for a maximum of $12,500 available. Today, the only car that would qualify for anywhere near the full proposed credit is the Chevrolet Bolt EV and Bolt EUV. This provision would, notably, exclude Tesla and even the Ford Mustang Mach-E, since it's assembled in Mexico.

    Xxxxxxx

    I have been really tempted to get an EV but now even more so...
    I believe moving to a mostly EV fleet is the way of the future and it really gets my goat some of the provisions.

    Is there any solar power credits in the bill? It really seems you could do some good tying electric vehicles, solar power and battery backups together to help reduce need for large centralized power plants and create redundancy in the power grid.
    Last edited by PackMan97; 11-22-2021 at 05:52 PM.

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by PackMan97 View Post
    I believe moving to a mostly EV fleet is the way of the future and it really gets my goat some of the provisions.

    Is there any solar power credits in the bill? It really seems you could do some good tying electric vehicles, solar power and battery backups together to help reduce need for large centralized power plants and create redundancy in the power grid.
    There is an issue with scale. Ignoring outliers like Lucid, EV batteries are typically 55-95 KwH. A Tesla Powerwall+ is 13.5, and most home battery systems arenít optimized for fast charging. You could do it, but it would likely be slower than most level 2 chargers.

  8. #228
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by moonpie23 View Post
    i.i use the enhanced cruise control, but it will scare the crap out of you on a piece of beltline that they are doing work on with new, uneven pavement and median concrete barriers and massive 5 o clock traffic...
    In other words, every day in the Triangle.

  9. #229
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    raleigh
    "Either they're going down, or we are! Kirk out!"

  10. #230
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by moonpie23 View Post
    And it can all be yours for the modest outlay of $130,000.

  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    And it can all be yours for the modest outlay of $130,000.
    But how much do the taxpayers pay?

  12. #232
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Outside Philly
    Quote Originally Posted by Indoor66 View Post
    But how much do the taxpayers pay?
    If you post your federal and state tax bill I bet we have enough brainpower on this board to compute the proportion of your specific tax burden that Elon Musk personally pocketed.

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by Indoor66 View Post
    But how much do the taxpayers pay?
    Enough Teslas have been sold that the Federal income tax credit has been fully phased out. State incentives may still be available in some places.

  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    And it can all be yours for the modest outlay of $130,000.
    If itís all the same to you, for that money Iíll take a Taycan Cross Turismo with a couple of Collings guitars in the boot and Duke menís basketball season tickets in the glove box.

  15. #235
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    raleigh
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    And it can all be yours for the modest outlay of $130,000.
    very low price for that acceleration group...
    "Either they're going down, or we are! Kirk out!"

  16. #236
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Outside Philly
    Cross-posted from the carbon thread:

    I'll cross post this in the EV thread but the global battery price survey from Bloomberg is out. The price and efficiency of batteries has huge implications for uptake in the market in conjunction w/ an overall primary energy transition to renewables and/or nuclear.

    Lithium-ion battery pack prices, which were above $1,200 per kilowatt-hour in 2010, have fallen 89% in real terms to $132/kWh in 2021[1]. This is a 6% drop from $140/kWh in 2020. Continuing cost reductions bode well for the future of electric vehicles, which rely on lithium-ion technology. However, the impact of rising commodity prices and increased costs for key materials such as electrolytes has put pressure on the industry in the second half of the year.

    For any interested, here is some climate-focused analysis of this data that looks out over the next 10 years and offers commentary for when the total cost of ownership for an EV might be at parity or below total cost of ownership for an ICE.

    The more complicated calculation is the “total cost of ownership,” including fuel, insurance, maintenance and depreciation. When looked at this way, EVs often do better than gasoline vehicles, because of savings on fuel and maintenance.

    The federal Department of Energy offers a calculator to help consumers estimate the cost differences, including between gasoline and electricity. This tool shows, for example, that an all-electric Chevrolet Bolt, a subcompact hatchback, costs about $15,000 more to purchase than the Chevrolet Trax, a subcompact SUV that runs on gasoline, not counting tax credits for the EV. But the Bolt costs about $700 less per year to operate.

  17. #237
    Drive it for 22 years and come out ahead?

  18. #238
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Outside Philly
    Quote Originally Posted by Indoor66 View Post
    Drive it for 22 years and come out ahead?
    Right now, that's about the sum of it. However, as with many new technologies, over time w/ additional research and investment, efficiency increases while cost to produce decreases until they displace or replace the market status quo. There probably aren't too many trappings of modern life that haven't been support, subsidized or helped along in some way until they reached a tipping point.

  19. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by moonpie23 View Post
    very low price for that acceleration group...
    Came across this video from Hoonigan. McLaren 720s with a bunch of performance upgrades drag racing the Tesla Model S Plaid. Standing starts, rolling starts (controlled by the McLaren driver), and even with 4 people in the Tesla. Hope you're not an ICE fan...


  20. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by Indoor66 View Post
    Drive it for 22 years and come out ahead?
    Iíll come out of the closet: Iíve owned a Model Y for 9 months. I love it an and am inherently lazy: with my cell phone in pocket, I simply open door, shift into D or R and drive. When I stop; I push a button (sort of optional I think) and get out of car.

    No physical movement to lock/unlock, no keys, no parking brake. Itís paid for itself IMHO.

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