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  1. #401
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    North of Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluedog View Post
    I wonder if rental cars will grow in popularity for road trips as EVs get more popular. Although seems kinda silly to have to rent a car for a long trip given you buy the car you want for its comfort/amenities/everything else, and it's an extra hassle. But I actually know people who do that today (i.e. rent a vehicle for long road trips) because they don't want "wear and tear" on their owned vehicle (which seems odd to me, but whatever floats your boat).
    I know someone who does that and I also don’t totally understand it. The logic works a little more if you have a lease with mileage limits, or if you need a bigger car.

    I live in NYC so do not own a car. We periodically do the math and it doesn’t work. We use zip cars for quick day trips and rent for longer trips. Fortunately my current employer has a great rate for rentals so that helps. Ideally I would like to own a car but the cost of a garage is obscene. I enjoy trying out different cars. I have yet to rent an EV (not sure if it is an option).

  2. #402
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    Quote Originally Posted by -jk View Post
    Lots of charging stations out there, but not as many as I'd like. Range anxiety is real!

    We have a hybrid Accord (love it - roomy, great handling and acceleration, and 40+ mpg). We're looking at getting a fully electric compact suv in a year or two to replace the 20yo Pilot with 290K miles.

    One of my kids plays double bass, so whatever we get needs to be able to haul it without sticking parts out a window or sunroof, and we do need a car with AWD. Apparently Subaru has an option where you buy a battery car and get 10 days a year of a loaner gas car. A novel solution to range anxiety.

    -jk
    local charging station festouche here when a new one opened to much acclaim, and then it became evident that if two people used it at the same time, charging time doubled. D'oh!

    I too can't consider anything until range improves substantially...especially with local temps that routinely go well below zero.

  3. #403
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyNotCrazie View Post
    I know someone who does that and I also don’t totally understand it. The logic works a little more if you have a lease with mileage limits, or if you need a bigger car.

    I live in NYC so do not own a car. We periodically do the math and it doesn’t work. We use zip cars for quick day trips and rent for longer trips. Fortunately my current employer has a great rate for rentals so that helps. Ideally I would like to own a car but the cost of a garage is obscene. I enjoy trying out different cars. I have yet to rent an EV (not sure if it is an option).
    I understand it. Say you're like me and generally you like to replace a car when it has around 100k miles on it. If I go on a trip that's a couple of hundred miles each way, plus miles driven wherever I am (which tends to add up since I'm usually actively doing something). By renting, you'd save about 1000 miles on your car. That saves in maintenance (oil, tires, etc) and saves the miles thus allowing you to keep your car longer if you want. If you make a couple of trips a year it adds up to thousands of miles. That also doesn't take into account that you don't have to clean the rental...something you pretty much always have to do after a trip in your own car.

    Note, I don't rent myself. Even if the money doesn't equal out, sometimes it's not all about the money. Especially if you like to keep your car clean and cut down on wear and tear, etc. Also, by renting a car for trips, your choices of what to buy increase greatly...especially if you like to drive something smaller and fun. Instead of paying extra to drive an SUV every day...

  4. #404
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Location
    Western NC

    Range anxiety solution?

    My solar installer sent me information about chargers for EVs today. They are drumming up business for installing residential Level 2 chargers, which is something I'd like to do if I can find ever a RAV4 prime or equivalent for sale with a delivery time of less than a year (patience grasshopper). Anyway, what I found interesting was the chart describing the three levels of chargers included in the email. The description of the level 3 charger states that it can charge at the rate of 20 miles of charge per minute. Assuming that isn't a gross exaggeration, it means you can add 200 miles of range in about 10 minutes, which gets it close to a gas fill up. At least I wouldn't like to go more than 200 miles without a rest stop and coffee. I would consider a full EV and not a plugin hybrid if there were enough of them around.

    Level 1 & 2 Chargers (2).jpg

    I notice that I have a Tesla "super charger" about 10 minutes away from me, which is rated as a level 3, so they are becoming more available. Of course I understand that Tesla has a proprietary interface (correct me if I am wrong) and I'm not interested in Tesla, but as the infrastructure improves, I can see kicking the internal combustion addiction altogether.

    As they say, Your Mileage May Vary (and no doubt the charging times for level 3 do too).

  5. #405
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    raleigh
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    and then it became evident that if two people used it at the same time, charging time doubled. D'oh!
    not exactly accurate...the charging blocks are in PAIRS 1A and 1B....if you're in 1A and i plug up to 1B the charge rate slows down...if you're in 1A and i plug into any other vacant pair, (2A-B, 3A-B and so on) the charge rate is still the max... there are usually 6 pair at the Sheetz superchargers (more coming daily for them and other gas stations like WA WA)

    My tesla model 3Long range can usually put a 200 mile bump on in about 15 mins....full charge (340 miles) in about 25min....

    I've spent $55 for the last 31 days for home charging. no super charging during that period. My Mercedes SUV would have been 4 tanks @ $80/fillup (premium required) so, about $320.
    "One POSSIBLE future. From your point of view... I don't know tech stuff.".... Kyle Reese

  6. #406
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    Quote Originally Posted by moonpie23 View Post
    not exactly accurate...the charging blocks are in PAIRS 1A and 1B...if you're in 1A and i plug up to 1B the charge rate slows down...if you're in 1A and i plug into any other vacant pair, (2A-B, 3A-B and so on) the charge rate is still the max... there are usually 6 pair at the Sheetz superchargers (more coming daily for them and other gas stations like WA WA)

    My tesla model 3Long range can usually put a 200 mile bump on in about 15 mins...full charge (340 miles) in about 25min...

    I've spent $55 for the last 31 days for home charging. no super charging during that period. My Mercedes SUV would have been 4 tanks @ $80/fillup (premium required) so, about $320.
    Yes it is accurate and verified by the installer . It is not a Tesla charging station just a generic one with only two stations.

  7. #407
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by moonpie23 View Post
    not exactly accurate...the charging blocks are in PAIRS 1A and 1B...if you're in 1A and i plug up to 1B the charge rate slows down...if you're in 1A and i plug into any other vacant pair, (2A-B, 3A-B and so on) the charge rate is still the max... there are usually 6 pair at the Sheetz superchargers (more coming daily for them and other gas stations like WA WA)

    My tesla model 3Long range can usually put a 200 mile bump on in about 15 mins...full charge (340 miles) in about 25min...

    I've spent $55 for the last 31 days for home charging. no super charging during that period. My Mercedes SUV would have been 4 tanks @ $80/fillup (premium required) so, about $320.
    I've been reading more about EV's of late. Truth is that with one daughter in college and the second going in the fall, it will be a couple of years before I can afford the replace my Lexus is350 with an EV (like a Tesla Model 3 or Kia EV6). I think I need to stop reading so much about EV's because last week when I had to stop for gas I got kinda pissed. Not about the price of gas (although that does suck right now) but I was just annoyed that I had to stop for gas at all and waste my time and energy. If I had an EV, I'd just charge at overnight and not have to stop for gas at all. Knowing that once I replace my car with an EV that I'll only have to get gas when I'm putting gas in my wife's car or in my truck (which gets used mostly for charity work) is making me impatient at a time when I can't really afford to be impatient. Thanks for listening :-)

  8. #408
    Quote Originally Posted by Section 15 View Post
    My solar installer sent me information about chargers for EVs today. They are drumming up business for installing residential Level 2 chargers, which is something I'd like to do if I can find ever a RAV4 prime or equivalent for sale with a delivery time of less than a year (patience grasshopper). Anyway, what I found interesting was the chart describing the three levels of chargers included in the email. The description of the level 3 charger states that it can charge at the rate of 20 miles of charge per minute. Assuming that isn't a gross exaggeration, it means you can add 200 miles of range in about 10 minutes, which gets it close to a gas fill up. At least I wouldn't like to go more than 200 miles without a rest stop and coffee. I would consider a full EV and not a plugin hybrid if there were enough of them around.

    Level 1 & 2 Chargers (2).jpg

    I notice that I have a Tesla "super charger" about 10 minutes away from me, which is rated as a level 3, so they are becoming more available. Of course I understand that Tesla has a proprietary interface (correct me if I am wrong) and I'm not interested in Tesla, but as the infrastructure improves, I can see kicking the internal combustion addiction altogether.

    As they say, Your Mileage May Vary (and no doubt the charging times for level 3 do too).
    Sometimes if you put you name on a dealer’s waiting list, you get lucky. I got my ID.4 in three days, because somebody who had one pre-ordered decided not to complete the purchase.

    In the case of the Taycan, I emailed the dealer about a car that was on their website. Sales guy called me back a half hour later: “that one’s sold, but we have five more sitting at the port.” He sent me the spec sheets, I picked one, put down a deposit, and picked up the car nine days later.

  9. #409
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    Moi, I gotta wait for longer range and proven reliability which isn't there yet. It will be, I'm sure, but I just don't have the time or patience to be searching for charging stations or having my car repaired. I suspect these issues will be resolved within the next few years.

  10. #410
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Summerville ,S.C.
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    Moi, I gotta wait for longer range and proven reliability which isn't there yet. It will be, I'm sure, but I just don't have the time or patience to be searching for charging stations or having my car repaired. I suspect these issues will be resolved within the next few years.
    Im hearing toyota is building something.
    While never the top technological advanced cars . But mostly proven reliability .I'm looking forward to this.

  11. #411
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Franklin TN
    Ordered the new Cadillac last week. Hopefully will receive this fall. In the meanwhile I am getting more and more annoyed with having to buy gas for my car. My wife just went to the hospital and since it’s a 40 minute drive from my house, I had to stop and fill up as I was almost empty. As others have pointed out I look forward to filling up in the future in my garage, while I sleep.

    I will still have a gas car for the foreseeable future, as I need a 6 passenger vehicle from time to time. But for everyday it will be all electric.

    My power comes from TVA which claims about 40% is green, mainly nuclear and hydroelectric. I look forward to no coal powered plants and closer to 80% of my electricity being green.

  12. #412
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Location
    Western NC
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    Moi, I gotta wait for longer range and proven reliability which isn't there yet. It will be, I'm sure, but I just don't have the time or patience to be searching for charging stations or having my car repaired. I suspect these issues will be resolved within the next few years.
    The reliability issue for EVs is an interesting one to me. On one hand you have new technology or at least a new application of technology (relatively speaking) that can have all sorts of unexpected consequences. Having spent years in the software industry, I subscribe to the mantra, "never buy version 1.0 of anything."* On the other hand, think of all the moving parts that an ICE has that simply don't exist with an EV. Simplicity usually means reliability.

    Still, I agree with budwom, better to let someone else provide the proof of reliability.

    * Possibly boring geeze (consider that a warning): One company I worked for was producing a product for the Italian market. It was late July, the deadline to complete it had long passed, and the client was getting antsy. So, the product manager told us to ship it even though it was full of obvious bugs. He reasoned that all of Italy was about to go on vacation the month of August and by the time anyone actually tried to use the software, we'd have the bugs fixed and a new version (2.0) shipped out. He thought that would make the company look good! Needless to say, the patched version wasn't much better and I was soon looking at greener employment pastures.

  13. #413
    Quote Originally Posted by Section 15 View Post
    The reliability issue for EVs is an interesting one to me. On one hand you have new technology or at least a new application of technology (relatively speaking) that can have all sorts of unexpected consequences. Having spent years in the software industry, I subscribe to the mantra, "never buy version 1.0 of anything."* On the other hand, think of all the moving parts that an ICE has that simply don't exist with an EV. Simplicity usually means reliability.

    Still, I agree with budwom, better to let someone else provide the proof of reliability.

    * Possibly boring geeze (consider that a warning): One company I worked for was producing a product for the Italian market. It was late July, the deadline to complete it had long passed, and the client was getting antsy. So, the product manager told us to ship it even though it was full of obvious bugs. He reasoned that all of Italy was about to go on vacation the month of August and by the time anyone actually tried to use the software, we'd have the bugs fixed and a new version (2.0) shipped out. He thought that would make the company look good! Needless to say, the patched version wasn't much better and I was soon looking at greener employment pastures.
    But you did get an almost perfect Management Fail story. All was not failure.

  14. #414
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington DC
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    Moi, I gotta wait for longer range and proven reliability which isn't there yet. It will be, I'm sure, but I just don't have the time or patience to be searching for charging stations or having my car repaired. I suspect these issues will be resolved within the next few years.
    I’m sure to be jinxing myself, but 4.5 years and 35k miles into my Model S with almost no issues (and the minor ones I’ve had they sent someone to fix it at my house). Low mileage to be sure but so far I’ve been very pleased. And the newer cars are supposedly even better than what I bought in 2017. And with more manufacturers making EVs and more users adopting them, I would expect the rate of quality improvement to continue to increase. It’s definitely the future of automobile transportation (Doc Brown’s Mr Fission flying car that was promised in 2015 not withstanding), so it’s really a question of when to make the switch. Range issues are real and fortunately my commute and driving patterns don’t require long trips so it’s been perfect for me. But even those are improving through increased batter capabilities, faster charging speeds, and better charging infrastructure.

  15. #415
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    Quote Originally Posted by mkirsh View Post
    I’m sure to be jinxing myself, but 4.5 years and 35k miles into my Model S with almost no issues (and the minor ones I’ve had they sent someone to fix it at my house). Low mileage to be sure but so far I’ve been very pleased. And the newer cars are supposedly even better than what I bought in 2017. And with more manufacturers making EVs and more users adopting them, I would expect the rate of quality improvement to continue to increase. It’s definitely the future of automobile transportation (Doc Brown’s Mr Fission flying car that was promised in 2015 not withstanding), so it’s really a question of when to make the switch. Range issues are real and fortunately my commute and driving patterns don’t require long trips so it’s been perfect for me. But even those are improving through increased batter capabilities, faster charging speeds, and better charging infrastructure.
    I've heard that from others. I'm just going by Consumer Reports data from consumers which is not particularly good at this point, most models are therefore projected to have well below average reliability.

  16. #416
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    Quote Originally Posted by wavedukefan70s View Post
    Im hearing toyota is building something.
    While never the top technological advanced cars . But mostly proven reliability .I'm looking forward to this.
    I'm largely in the same boat. I value reliability above all else, and Toyota/Lexus are great at that.

    It's kind of interesting that regarding EVs, Toyota has suffered from what a lot of companies deal with: they were big leaders in a particular technology (hybrid technology in this case), and were therefore reluctant to move into pure EVs as quickly as they should have.

    Across the board the big boys will be making huge advances in the next five years (GM, VW, Toyota, Tesla et al) and that's when I'm likely to jump on board.

  17. #417
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Location
    Western NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Indoor66 View Post
    But you did get an almost perfect Management Fail story. All was not failure.
    Now you've done it and got me started (cracks open a beer and leans back). Another company I worked for produced innovative and very high end publishing software back in the days when WYSIWYG was a thing. An off shoot of the core product was a PDF type format that was easy to create and was highly searchable, even more than PDF is today. Even better this was at least 18 months before Adobe released Acrobat at a time when the market was crying for such a product. However, management wouldn't make a free version of the reader available. When asked at a company meeting why they were charging $100s for a simple reader, the CEO answered that he didn't think the company could make any money giving away software. Bada Boom

  18. #418
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Summerville ,S.C.
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    I'm largely in the same boat. I value reliability above all else, and Toyota/Lexus are great at that.

    It's kind of interesting that regarding EVs, Toyota has suffered from what a lot of companies deal with: they were big leaders in a particular technology (hybrid technology in this case), and were therefore reluctant to move into pure EVs as quickly as they should have.

    Across the board the big boys will be making huge advances in the next five years (GM, VW, Toyota, Tesla et al) and that's when I'm likely to jump on board.
    Im hoping for hydrogen also .

  19. #419
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Anybody else holding out for solar-powered flying cars?

  20. #420
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    On the Road to Nowhere
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    Anybody else holding out for solar-powered flying cars?
    When that happens, I've already got my patent teed up for titanium umbrellas. For cloudy/rainy days, of course.

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