Page 1 of 53 1231151 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 1053
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Lewisville, NC

    Tokyo Olympics Basketball (July 25 - Aug. 7)

    Haven't seen much discussion about this, and the Olympics are just a little more than 2 months away.

    From USA Basketball:

    The draw for the Tokyo Olympics menís basketball competition was held Feb. 2, and the U.S. was drawn into Group A alongside 2019 FIBA World Cup bronze medalist France, 2017 Asia Cup runner-up Iran, and the to-be-determined winner of the FIBA Olympic Qualifying Tournament in Victoria, Canada.

    The American men will open Olympic preliminary round play on July 25, against France (8 a.m. EDT), then will play Iran on July 28 (12:40 a.m. EDT) and will close out preliminary play on July 31 (8:00 a.m. EDT) versus the winner of the Canada Olympic Qualifying Tournament.


    https://www.usab.com/news-events/new...finalists.aspx

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Love the thread, RoyWhite. When are we going to select the 12-person team? It looks like 40 or so on the "roster."
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  3. #3
    Thanks, Roy. This had slipped my mind.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    If 70% of Japanese have their way, there won't be any Olympics...

  5. #5
    Thanks for getting this thread started. We're at an ebb in the cycle of USA Basketball dominance, having finished SEVENTH at the 2019 FIBA World Cup. That was the first tournament without Coach K at the helm since the bronze medal finish at the 2004 Olympics.

    This all looks fairly cyclical--losses by team USA, followed by periods of dominance, followed by dissipating interest, allowing for more losses. But usually, it's Olympic losses that motivate changes in USA basketball (1988 led to the Dream Team, 2004 lead to a program revamp and hiring Coach K). While losses in other competitions don't usually lead to wholesale change, they do often portend upcoming losses (see the 2002 6th place finish in the World Championships in Indianapolis foreshadowing the 2004 struggles).

    Unfortunately, we seem to be forgetting the lessons from 2002-06 and repeating the same mistakes: its unclear if we'll have competitive tryouts, there seems to be no more requirement of multi-year buy in from the player pool, and it's unclear if there's been any coordination between the current national team coach (Popovich) and the youth-team coaches.

    So I'm not optimistic. We're due for another loss in the Olympics before long, and just rolling the ball out to a team of 2nd/3rd-tier NBA stars isn't enough.

    Yes, USA will still be favored. Yes, it's been a weird year and there's lots of reasons for uncertainty. But when the expectation is "win every game in every competition" it takes a lot to maintain that standard.

  6. #6
    With a compressed schedule and a 2nd straight shortened offseason, I would think a lot of NBA teams will not want their players to compete in the Olympics this summer. I guess Isaiah Thomas II is still available after his short stint with the Pelicans. Pau Gasol was looking for some game action. Seriously, I have know idea who will play for any country.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Chesapeake, VA.
    Quote Originally Posted by Duke79UNLV77 View Post
    With a compressed schedule and a 2nd straight shortened offseason, I would think a lot of NBA teams will not want their players to compete in the Olympics this summer. I guess Isaiah Thomas II is still available after his short stint with the Pelicans. Pau Gasol was looking for some game action. Seriously, I have know idea who will play for any country.
    LOL, the Gasols play for Spain.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Here is the current list of "finalists" --

    Here are thirteen guys who have the rep and talent so that if they really want to be on the team, I strongly suspect them make it: Beal, Butler, Steph, AD, KD, PG, Beard, Kyrie, Lebron, Kawhi, Dame, CP, Russ

    I know, I know, there are like no big men on that roster but KD, AD, and Bron are big enough to make the inside game work.

    That said, I doubt all those guys want to play. Some of them will need time off from the post-season and some have done it enough so they won't mind stepping aside versus winning a 3rd or 4th gold medal. In fact, I bet only about 50% of those guys play.

    So, here are 15 guys who have the best chance of joining the elite: Bam, Booker, Jaylen Brown (if he is healthy), Jerami Grant, Dray, Harris, Heyward, Ingram, Lavine, Mitchell, Randle, Tatum, VanVleet, Zion, Trae

    I'd make Zion the most likely of that group. I think he has a great chance of being on the team. Tatum is up there too. So is Donovan Mitchell. Randle, Dray, and Bam may have a slightly enhanced chance because of the need for some bigs.
    Last edited by JasonEvans; 05-17-2021 at 10:34 PM.
    I don't know what you are doing right now, but if you aren't listening to the DBR Podcast, you're doing it wrong.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Here is the current list of "finalists" --

    Here are thirteen guys who have the rep and talent so that if they really want to be on the team, I strongly suspect them make it: Beal, Butler, Steph, AD, KD, PG, Beard, Kyrie, Lebron, Kawhi, Dame, CP, Russ

    I know, I know, there are like no big men on that roster but KD, AD, and Bron are big enough to make the inside game work.

    That said, I doubt all those guys want to play. Some of them will need time off from the post-season and some have done it enough so they won't mind stepping aside versus winning a 3rd or 4th gold medal. In fact, I bet only about 50% of those guys play.

    So, here are 15 guys who have the best chance of joining the elite: Bam, Booker, Jaylen Brown (if he is healthy), Jerami Grant, Dray, Harris, Heyward, Ingram, Lavine, Mitchell, Randle, Tatum, VanVleet, Zion, Trae

    I'd make Zion the most likely of that group. I think he has a great chance of being on the team. Tatum is up there too. So is Donovan Mitchell.
    Well, how can you NOT have Zion Williamson on the US Olympic team? The international basketball world would go bananas!
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Here is the current list of "finalists" --

    Here are thirteen guys who have the rep and talent so that if they really want to be on the team, I strongly suspect them make it: Beal, Butler, Steph, AD, KD, PG, Beard, Kyrie, Lebron, Kawhi, Dame, CP, Russ

    I know, I know, there are like no big men on that roster but KD, AD, and Bron are big enough to make the inside game work.

    That said, I doubt all those guys want to play. Some of them will need time off from the post-season and some have done it enough so they won't mind stepping aside versus winning a 3rd or 4th gold medal. In fact, I bet only about 50% of those guys play.

    So, here are 15 guys who have the best chance of joining the elite: Bam, Booker, Jaylen Brown (if he is healthy), Jerami Grant, Dray, Harris, Heyward, Ingram, Lavine, Mitchell, Randle, Tatum, VanVleet, Zion, Trae

    I'd make Zion the most likely of that group. I think he has a great chance of being on the team. Tatum is up there too. So is Donovan Mitchell.
    Would such a team be meaningfully better than the 2019 team? That squad also had Tatum, Brown, Mitchell and Harris, along with Kemba Walker, Marcus Smart, Myles Turner, Khris Middleton, Brook Lopez, Mason Plumlee, Derrick White and Harrison Barnes

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    North of Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Here is the current list of "finalists" --

    Here are thirteen guys who have the rep and talent so that if they really want to be on the team, I strongly suspect them make it: Beal, Butler, Steph, AD, KD, PG, Beard, Kyrie, Lebron, Kawhi, Dame, CP, Russ

    I know, I know, there are like no big men on that roster but KD, AD, and Bron are big enough to make the inside game work.

    That said, I doubt all those guys want to play. Some of them will need time off from the post-season and some have done it enough so they won't mind stepping aside versus winning a 3rd or 4th gold medal. In fact, I bet only about 50% of those guys play.

    So, here are 15 guys who have the best chance of joining the elite: Bam, Booker, Jaylen Brown (if he is healthy), Jerami Grant, Dray, Harris, Heyward, Ingram, Lavine, Mitchell, Randle, Tatum, VanVleet, Zion, Trae

    I'd make Zion the most likely of that group. I think he has a great chance of being on the team. Tatum is up there too. So is Donovan Mitchell.
    The NBA finals are scheduled to run until less than a week before the Olympics, so I'm assuming that guys on teams making deep playoff runs will also be more questionable.

    I would potentially add Middleton to the second list.

    Also, I assume that Zion's injury will be fully healed by then?

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Quote Originally Posted by Truth&Justise View Post
    Would such a team be meaningfully better than the 2019 team? That squad also had Tatum, Brown, Mitchell and Harris, along with Kemba Walker, Marcus Smart, Myles Turner, Khris Middleton, Brook Lopez, Mason Plumlee, Derrick White and Harrison Barnes
    Well, rather than Tatum, Brown, Mitchell, and Harris being the best players on the team, they would likely be the worst, so yeah, it would be a better team. I mean, even if you merely took Smart, Lopez, Turner, and Mason and replaced them with Bam, Booker, Zion, and Randle, you are talking about a significantly better team. Plus, Tatum, Brown, and Mitchell are all considerably better today than they were in 2019.

    Those second 15 guys I mentioned would win the gold, with ease, I think. Trae, Mitchell, and Booker raining threes and tossing lobs to Zion and Bam?!?! Yes please!
    I don't know what you are doing right now, but if you aren't listening to the DBR Podcast, you're doing it wrong.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Chesapeake, VA.
    No Jamal Murray? What he did in the bubble playoffs last year was pretty impressive. Is he Canadian or something?

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Bahama (that is NC)
    Quote Originally Posted by rsvman View Post
    No Jamal Murray? What he did in the bubble playoffs last year was pretty impressive. Is he Canadian or something?
    Canadian and also has torn ACL.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Greenville, SC
    Quote Originally Posted by dukejim1 View Post
    Canadian and also has torn ACL.
    But except for those two things, wouldn't he be a good addition?

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    So, here are 15 guys who have the best chance of joining the elite: Bam, Booker, Jaylen Brown (if he is healthy), Jerami Grant, Dray, Harris, Heyward, Ingram, Lavine, Mitchell, Randle, Tatum, VanVleet, Zion, Trae
    Quote Originally Posted by Truth&Justise View Post
    Would such a team be meaningfully better than the 2019 team? That squad also had Tatum, Brown, Mitchell and Harris, along with Kemba Walker, Marcus Smart, Myles Turner, Khris Middleton, Brook Lopez, Mason Plumlee, Derrick White and Harrison Barnes
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Well, rather than Tatum, Brown, Mitchell, and Harris being the best players on the team, they would likely be the worst, so yeah, it would be a better team. I mean, even if you merely took Smart, Lopez, Turner, and Mason and replaced them with Bam, Booker, Zion, and Randle, you are talking about a significantly better team. Plus, Tatum, Brown, and Mitchell are all considerably better today than they were in 2019.

    Those second 15 guys I mentioned would win the gold, with ease, I think. Trae, Mitchell, and Booker raining threes and tossing lobs to Zion and Bam?!?! Yes please!
    Tatum-Brown-Mitchell are current all stars and would still be among the best players on the team you're describing. The line between them and the rest is pretty thin and very debatable.

    I do agree that the Tatum-Brown-Mitchell core being older and more experienced (assuming everyone is healthy) would make for a better team now. And yes, you have a chance for more high end scoring with Trae, Zion, Booker and Randle.

    But to me, making a change from Khris Middleton/Kemba Walker/Myles Turner/Marcus Smart/Brook Lopez/Mason Plumlee to Devin Booker/Trae Young/Zion Williamson/Julius Randle/Bam Adebayo/Zach Lavine is not as big a change as compared to bringing in a LeBron or Durant or Curry. Once you drop off from those superstars, you're left with two somewhat similar groups from that 2nd or 3rd tier NBA-star level.

    Should that be enough to win? Absolutely, and such a team would be favored. But every time you take away an advantage for Team USA, even marginally, the odds of an upset increase. Going from 1st Tier Stars (LeBron, Durant, Curry, Harden, Kawhi, Davis) to 2nd/3rd Tier? The odds tick up a bit. Not holding a competitive tryout? The odds tick up a bit. A condensed NBA season with COVID and quick turnaround to the Olympics? The odds tick up a bit. Assembling a team of 12 that has never played together before or had a consistent approach applied in Team USA youth teams? You get the idea.

    Because all it takes is one loss to miss out on a gold. Just look at 2002, 2004, 2006, 2019...

    Coach K set high, high standards in 2005 and they're starting to slip again.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Quote Originally Posted by Truth&Justise View Post
    Tatum-Brown-Mitchell are current all stars and would still be among the best players on the team you're describing. The line between them and the rest is pretty thin and very debatable.

    I do agree that the Tatum-Brown-Mitchell core being older and more experienced (assuming everyone is healthy) would make for a better team now. And yes, you have a chance for more high end scoring with Trae, Zion, Booker and Randle.

    But to me, making a change from Khris Middleton/Kemba Walker/Myles Turner/Marcus Smart/Brook Lopez/Mason Plumlee to Devin Booker/Trae Young/Zion Williamson/Julius Randle/Bam Adebayo/Zach Lavine is not as big a change as compared to bringing in a LeBron or Durant or Curry. Once you drop off from those superstars, you're left with two somewhat similar groups from that 2nd or 3rd tier NBA-star level.

    Should that be enough to win? Absolutely, and such a team would be favored. But every time you take away an advantage for Team USA, even marginally, the odds of an upset increase. Going from 1st Tier Stars (LeBron, Durant, Curry, Harden, Kawhi, Davis) to 2nd/3rd Tier? The odds tick up a bit. Not holding a competitive tryout? The odds tick up a bit. A condensed NBA season with COVID and quick turnaround to the Olympics? The odds tick up a bit. Assembling a team of 12 that has never played together before or had a consistent approach applied in Team USA youth teams? You get the idea.

    Because all it takes is one loss to miss out on a gold. Just look at 2002, 2004, 2006, 2019...

    Coach K set high, high standards in 2005 and they're starting to slip again.
    Yup, I hear ya and and fully agree that a team with the best 5-7 guys in the NBA has a better chance of winning gold than a team without those players. I never said otherwise.

    Where we disagree, it appears, is that you think Khris Middleton/Kemba Walker/Myles Turner/Marcus Smart/Brook Lopez/Mason Plumlee are similar in terms of talent and gold medal potential to Devin Booker/Trae Young/Zion Williamson/Julius Randle/Bam Adebayo/Zach Lavine. In think there is a world of difference in those supporting casts (assuming that Tatum-Brown-Mitchell-Harris are the best players on the team). Not a single guy in the Khris Middleton/Kemba Walker/Myles Turner/Marcus Smart/Brook Lopez/Mason Plumlee grouping is the best player on his NBA team. Heck, several of them are, at best, the 4th best player on his team. But, when you are talking about Devin Booker/Trae Young/Zion Williamson/Julius Randle/Bam Adebayo/Zach Lavine you are talking about team leaders. Every single one of those guys is best player on his team and a likely all-star. Several are thought to be the future 1st and 2nd team All-NBA players (some may already be).

    Your statement was to ask how different a team without the top 5-10 NBA players would be from the roster the US took to the World Championships in 2019. I was pointing out it would be significantly better (and more experienced than the 2019 youngsters).

    But, all of this is moot. I am pretty confident we will see a decent percentage of those top 10 players electing to participate in the Olympics. If nothing else, guys like Beal, Butler, Steph, CP, and Russ figure to be out of the playoffs fairly early so they would have at least a little bit of rest prior to the Olympic training and games.
    I don't know what you are doing right now, but if you aren't listening to the DBR Podcast, you're doing it wrong.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Worth noting -- here are the number of Olympic teams played upon by guys who are currently in the pool and are contenders to play on the 2021 team:

    Lebron James - 2004, 2008, 2012
    Chris Paul - 2008, 2012
    Kevin Durant - 2012, 2016
    Russel Westbrook - 2012
    Kevin Love - 2012
    James Harden - 2012
    Anthony Davis - 2012
    Jimmy Butler - 2016
    Kyrie Irving - 2016
    Paul George - 2016
    Draymond Green - 2016
    Kyle Lowry - 2016
    Harrison Barnes - 2016
    DeMar DeRozan - 2016

    So, among the top tier of the NBA, Steph Curry, Kawhi Leonard, Damian Lillard, and Bradley Beal have never played in an Olympics. Steph was injured in 2016, but Beal, Lillard, and Kawhi all withdrew on their own and just opted not to play. It will be interesting to see which big time stars stay in and which ones pull out this time around. If guys don't want to travel in a Covid world then maybe we will be looking at another second, third, or even fourth tier US team. I feel for Pops if that happens...
    I don't know what you are doing right now, but if you aren't listening to the DBR Podcast, you're doing it wrong.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Worth noting -- here are the number of Olympic teams played upon by guys who are currently in the pool and are contenders to play on the 2021 team:

    Lebron James - 2004, 2008, 2012
    Chris Paul - 2008, 2012
    Kevin Durant - 2012, 2016
    Russel Westbrook - 2012
    Kevin Love - 2012
    James Harden - 2012
    Anthony Davis - 2012
    Jimmy Butler - 2016
    Kyrie Irving - 2016
    Paul George - 2016
    Draymond Green - 2016
    Kyle Lowry - 2016
    Harrison Barnes - 2016
    DeMar DeRozan - 2016

    So, among the top tier of the NBA, Steph Curry, Kawhi Leonard, Damian Lillard, and Bradley Beal have never played in an Olympics. Steph was injured in 2016, but Beal, Lillard, and Kawhi all withdrew on their own and just opted not to play. It will be interesting to see which big time stars stay in and which ones pull out this time around. If guys don't want to travel in a Covid world then maybe we will be looking at another second, third, or even fourth tier US team. I feel for Pops if that happens...
    Curry is in the playoffs, but will likely have several weeks off before Tokyo. Certainly would be a great opportunity to make it "his" team and shake off the taste of the last few seasons.

    Granted, I'm stretching, but it's just because I would really like to see him play international ball.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    After the year of Covid, I can't see many NBA players embracing the Olympics..and now a prominent Japanese medical society is chiming in that the games are not a good idea. I'd bet they don't happen.

Similar Threads

  1. 3 x 3 basketball to be played in the Olympics
    By Billy Dat in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 101
    Last Post: 03-30-2018, 11:44 AM
  2. New Olympics Basketball Thread- Non-USA Teams
    By Olympic Fan in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 38
    Last Post: 08-10-2012, 01:28 PM
  3. 2012 Olympics Basketball Thread: The non-USA Teams
    By awhom111 in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 82
    Last Post: 07-27-2012, 01:51 PM
  4. Olympics basketball- prop on K
    By chi in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 08-25-2008, 11:54 AM
  5. The Olympics and Duke basketball
    By atl52 in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 03-22-2008, 07:29 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •