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Thread: New flop rule

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Richmond, VA

    New flop rule

    I am on the fence about giving a technical for flopping...

    In soccer I understand it because one player that falls to the ground does not seriously diminish his teams flow...it is still 10 on 11 and most players are out of the flow of the game anyway. The reward for a bad call by the ref is a change of possession s the risk is greater than the reward.

    In basketball if a player falls to the ground their team is playing 4 on 5 and if a player is on the ground and someone trips over them it is a foul on the player on the ground. So the risk is higher for someone who flops. I would prefer that the refs just let a lot more "flop/no flop" plays be "play on" situations. If a player flops enough and nothing is called and it costs his team points flopping will stop.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkD83 View Post
    I am on the fence about giving a technical for flopping...

    In soccer I understand it because one player that falls to the ground does not seriously diminish his teams flow...it is still 10 on 11 and most players are out of the flow of the game anyway. The reward for a bad call by the ref is a change of possession s the risk is greater than the reward.

    In basketball if a player falls to the ground their team is playing 4 on 5 and if a player is on the ground and someone trips over them it is a foul on the player on the ground. So the risk is higher for someone who flops. I would prefer that the refs just let a lot more "flop/no flop" plays be "play on" situations. If a player flops enough and nothing is called and it costs his team points flopping will stop.
    But if a flop resulted in a charge call 1/3 of the time then there could be a significant incentive to do it. Getting an additional foul on an opposing player can be a biggie.

  3. #3
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    If the NBA adopted this rule it would end LaBron's career.

  4. #4
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    raleigh
    Quote Originally Posted by buddy View Post
    If the NBA adopted this rule it would end LaBron's career.
    if the nba called a foul when it was a foul, lebron would have 10 rings...
    "One POSSIBLE future. From your point of view... I don't know tech stuff.".... Kyle Reese

  5. #5
    My first reaction is that it is a good idea. I feel like the pace the game has significantly increased especially on offense. Idk if this is true but it feels like players, especially offensively talented players, are fouling out more frequently which can get annoying as a viewer. Rather than adding a sixth foul this seems like a more modest change that may help

  6. #6
    Nobody likes flopping but maybe the refs should call a foul for contact when they see contact and not call fouls when they don’t see contact and just ignore the theatrics.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkD83 View Post
    I am on the fence about giving a technical for flopping...

    In soccer I understand it because one player that falls to the ground does not seriously diminish his teams flow...it is still 10 on 11 and most players are out of the flow of the game anyway. The reward for a bad call by the ref is a change of possession s the risk is greater than the reward.

    In basketball if a player falls to the ground their team is playing 4 on 5 and if a player is on the ground and someone trips over them it is a foul on the player on the ground. So the risk is higher for someone who flops. I would prefer that the refs just let a lot more "flop/no flop" plays be "play on" situations. If a player flops enough and nothing is called and it costs his team points flopping will stop.
    When a guy flops into a congested lane it means everyone has to worry about twisting an ankle coming down on him if they jump. It can affect a play if a guy has to worry about his legs and a rebound goes over his head he would have gotten otherwise. A flopping player shouldn't be allowed to affect the game like that nor should he endanger other players to try and steal a possession.

    I hope this isn't one of those emphasis things that they do for a month and then disappears (like the numerous times they did freedom of movement to start a season).

  8. #8
    Not good. NC State players are going to get trucked by Tarheels and then called for flopping.

    Tarheels will be ten feet away from a Wolfpack player when they get hit with an invisible pimp slap, and the Wolfpack kid will be ejected for throwing a punch.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by lotusland View Post
    Nobody likes flopping but maybe the refs should call a foul for contact when they see contact and not call fouls when they don’t see contact and just ignore the theatrics.
    Aye, but a well-performed flop will CAUSE a ref to "see" contact when there is none. The flopper can get your brain to trick you.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    Cary, NC
    CBS had a great article last week previewing the rules changes that were up for discussion by the NCAA rules committee. It’s an old article so these decisions may have since been made.

    https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/college-basketball-rule-changes-up-for-debate-six-fouls-quasi-quarters-reducing-timeouts-and-more/

    I would really be in favor of the 10 minute quasi-quarters, though I would really rather they just go to actual quarters. Every other level of basketball uses quarters - high school, women’s college, NBA, international - except for men’s college. According to Parrish they can’t make the change because the timeouts are bound to TV contracts and every league renews its contract on different years, so there’s no way to unilaterally make the switch. That sounds asinine to me. At any rate, the quasi-quarters would at least get rid of the one and one, which I hate.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by UrinalCake View Post
    CBS had a great article last week previewing the rules changes that were up for discussion by the NCAA rules committee. It’s an old article so these decisions may have since been made.

    https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/college-basketball-rule-changes-up-for-debate-six-fouls-quasi-quarters-reducing-timeouts-and-more/

    I would really be in favor of the 10 minute quasi-quarters, though I would really rather they just go to actual quarters. Every other level of basketball uses quarters - high school, women’s college, NBA, international - except for men’s college. According to Parrish they can’t make the change because the timeouts are bound to TV contracts and every league renews its contract on different years, so there’s no way to unilaterally make the switch. That sounds asinine to me. At any rate, the quasi-quarters would at least get rid of the one and one, which I hate.
    I just hope they use replay to determine if a flop call was actually a flop /s

  12. #12
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    Feb 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by cspan37421 View Post
    Aye, but a well-performed flop will CAUSE a ref to "see" contact when there is none. The flopper can get your brain to trick you.
    I’d be interested in a breakdown of charges. A few are flops. A smallish percentage are legitimate, physical, and the result of game flow.

    The largest percentage of charges, imho, are likely to be semi flops, in which the defensive player has no intention to make a basketball play on the ball but is, instead, focused on ducking into a charge position and then explosively falling backward at the first contact. This sort of fall isn’t a flop in that they did get hit, but it’s not the sort of defense that the Creators were thinking about when they penned the Basketball Constitution. It’s interesting to watch this sort of charge. Guys who are virtually unmovable (eg Lebron or, perhaps, our Shane) fall like a 6’8” skinny dominoes when they sense a charge is available.

    I’ve enjoyed many gleeful moments in which we get the charge call, but, overall, I’d prefer that defenses not gear themselves around it.

    It’s similar to defensive fouls. Should refs not call fouls when Zion is repeatedly hacked, just because he’s strong, able to finish, and not a whiner? Or should he start taking some acting classes?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by UrinalCake View Post
    CBS had a great article last week previewing the rules changes that were up for discussion by the NCAA rules committee. It’s an old article so these decisions may have since been made.

    https://www.cbssports.com/college-ba...outs-and-more/

    I would really be in favor of the 10 minute quasi-quarters, though I would really rather they just go to actual quarters. Every other level of basketball uses quarters - high school, women’s college, NBA, international - except for men’s college. According to Parrish they can’t make the change because the timeouts are bound to TV contracts and every league renews its contract on different years, so there’s no way to unilaterally make the switch. That sounds asinine to me. At any rate, the quasi-quarters would at least get rid of the one and one, which I hate.
    I am in complete disagreement on this. If quasi-quarters eliminate the one-and-one, that's reason enough not to approve them. The women's game did away with the one-and-one and IMO is makes the game worse. Rebounding a free throw miss is exciting and it really increases the pressure on the free throw taker to hit that first one. It very much changes the end game situation, too. A team that has played clean can get more opportunities with the one-and-one in play.I frankly wish they'd bring it back to the women's game, which would be ridiculously easy to do.

    To each their own, but I like the one-and-one a lot and would miss it.

  14. #14
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    Jul 2008
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    San Francisco
    I’m skeptical that this change will improve the game. It’s just going to create even more space for inconsistent interpretations of charge/block/flop. I’d rather the officials stop requiring a defensive player to fall down to call a charge. There’s nothing in the rules that says the defender has to fall before a charge is called, but that’s (almost always) how the game is officiated. If defenders are allowed to stand their ground, absorb contact, and get the call, they’ll have much less incentive to call.

  15. #15
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    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by COYS View Post
    I’m skeptical that this change will improve the game. It’s just going to create even more space for inconsistent interpretations of charge/block/flop. I’d rather the officials stop requiring a defensive player to fall down to call a charge. There’s nothing in the rules that says the defender has to fall before a charge is called, but that’s (almost always) how the game is officiated. If defenders are allowed to stand their ground, absorb contact, and get the call, they’ll have much less incentive to call.
    Although I disagree with you on the rule (flopping has to go and a few T's will help with that) I 100% agree with your sentiment that a player shouldn't have to fall to get a charge call. Tough part is when a player falls with contact (not really a flop) but does it as a way to give way when hit and not get injured. Guys are going to have to take more contact before falling or not fall to be sure they don't flop. I still say it's worth it to get rid of actual flopping.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnb View Post
    I’d be interested in a breakdown of charges. A few are flops. A smallish percentage are legitimate, physical, and the result of game flow.

    The largest percentage of charges, imho, are likely to be semi flops, in which the defensive player has no intention to make a basketball play on the ball but is, instead, focused on ducking into a charge position and then explosively falling backward at the first contact. This sort of fall isn’t a flop in that they did get hit, but it’s not the sort of defense that the Creators were thinking about when they penned the Basketball Constitution. It’s interesting to watch this sort of charge. Guys who are virtually unmovable (eg Lebron or, perhaps, our Shane) fall like a 6’8” skinny dominoes when they sense a charge is available.

    I’ve enjoyed many gleeful moments in which we get the charge call, but, overall, I’d prefer that defenses not gear themselves around it.

    It’s similar to defensive fouls. Should refs not call fouls when Zion is repeatedly hacked, just because he’s strong, able to finish, and not a whiner? Or should he start taking some acting classes?
    I remember this was how many teams defended Jahlil Okafor because he was so good in the post. Slightest bit of contact on a post move and they'd topple.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkD83 View Post
    I am on the fence about giving a technical for flopping...
    This seems like a well-intentioned rule that is going to be applied terribly.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by lotusland View Post
    I just hope they use replay to determine if a flop call was actually a flop /s
    i am tired of all the instant replays. They take too much time. I understand the need fo most of them, I just don't want to add more.

  19. #19
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    Oct 2009
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    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by Truth&Justise View Post
    This seems like a well-intentioned rule that is going to be applied terribly.
    of course. just like simulation in soccer.

    I think the big problem is trying to do this in real time. IMO, it can only be done effectively asynchronously, otherwise the stakes are too high (much, as others have noted, the block/charge call already is). So if a person is caught doing it twice, or something, 1 game suspension. done and dusted.
    1200. DDMF.

  20. #20
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    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    of course. just like simulation in soccer.

    I think the big problem is trying to do this in real time. IMO, it can only be done effectively asynchronously, otherwise the stakes are too high (much, as others have noted, the block/charge call already is). So if a person is caught doing it twice, or something, 1 game suspension. done and dusted.
    My hope would be that once players start picking up T's for flopping that the flopping mostly goes away. Sure, at first there will be too many stoppages to review replays and that'll suck but as the flop goes away, so does the extra replays.

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