Results 1 to 17 of 17
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Raleigh, NC

    OADs, Transfer Portals, High School Hoops

    The article linked below is from The Wall Street Journal and is just the latest example of how of the basketball landscape is changing.


    https://www.wsj.com/articles/overtim...9087409?page=1

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Durham, NC
    I think this was mentioned somewhere here before, but I wonder: What about the +1 year? That's really the main problem with college basketball. If you can get players past the one-year-out-of-high-school rule, colleges will have an easier time of it. Colleges will still draw fans, and having a reliable way for players to get basketball experience, paid, outside of college, could well bring some of the "student" back to "student-athlete". It won't fix everything, but it could at least slow down the player hamster wheel.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by TKG View Post
    The article linked below is from The Wall Street Journal and is just the latest example of how of the basketball landscape is changing.


    https://www.wsj.com/articles/overtim...9087409?page=1
    Whoís going to pay to watch HS ball players who didnít go to their HS and are not eligible to play for their college?

  4. #4
    Probs unpopular in a college message board, but I think this idea is sweet. Since Lebron and the emergence of high school mixtapes and highlights (AAU) there seems to be a huge increase in fans of high school players. The way this sub follows players like paolo and others alike might be a good example. Super excited to see where this goes!! G league might be nervous...

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by thedukeman View Post
    Probs unpopular in a college message board, but I think this idea is sweet. Since Lebron and the emergence of high school mixtapes and highlights (AAU) there seems to be a huge increase in fans of high school players. The way this sub follows players like paolo and others alike might be a good example. Super excited to see where this goes!! G league might be nervous...
    The mixtapes and highlight reels are only popular because people want to see the high school talent that their favorite college team is recruiting. Sure, this will attract NBA fans who want to do the same thing but not to the same degree as college basketball fans. Lebron was an outlier because he literally was totally different than any other basketball player and he came along at a time when nobody was that invested in high school players. The top high school players already go head to head in the AAU season which, again, only attracts big money and attention because of the interest from college basketball fans. I don't see how it would be that much different than just having these high school kids go to the G League and make $100K. I honestly have not seen any footage of Jonathan Kuminga and the other guys who went to the G League and I don't think many people have except maybe die-hard NBA fans. College basketball will always have the thing that the G League and Overtime Elite will never have, a massive built in fan base that was grown organically over more than a century of pride in one's school/city/state. The game of basketball itself was invented and propagated as a college-specific game that grew because of regular people's experiences in college. Even the NBA and the other major pro sports leagues grew organically from very small beginnings where players had other actual full time jobs and fans enjoyed the sport itself and having pride in a team representing their city. Nobody is going to pay to watch high school players playing for something called Overtime Elite.
    Last edited by mo.st.dukie; 04-22-2021 at 03:39 PM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by mo.st.dukie View Post
    The mixtapes and highlight reels are only popular because people want to see the high school talent that their favorite college team is recruiting. Sure, this will attract NBA fans who want to do the same thing but not to the same degree as college basketball fans. The top high school players already go head to head in the AAU season which, again, only attracts big money and attention because of the interest from college basketball fans. I don't see how it would be that much different than just having these high school kids go to the G League and make $100K. I honestly have not seen any footage of Jonathan Kuminga and the other guys who went to the G League and I don't think many people have except maybe die-hard NBA fans. College basketball will always have the thing that the G League and Overtime Elite will never have, a massive built in fan base that was grown organically over more than a century of pride in one's school/city/state. The game of basketball itself was invented and propagated as a college-specific game that grew because of regular people's experiences in college. Even the NBA and the other major pro sports leagues grew organically from very small beginnings where players had other actual full time jobs and fans enjoyed the sport itself and having pride in a team representing their city.
    I disagree that people are watching players because their college team is recruiting them. I think you are overestimating this select group of "college basketball fans" you are referring to. The same ideas you typed would be applicable to highschool athletes. People who live in the same state or area as the players and want to watch them play. Regardless, I think people just want to see the next crop of elite athletes. It would seem silly to make high school mixtapes and host aau tournaments if only fans of the colleges athletes were considering were viewing. There is clearly a much larger audience than that. In many cases, it is correlation rather than causation as you suggest. Many fans support a college team, or nba team, because of the exciting players they have and fans enjoy watching. These fans support the team because of the players, not the college. I can't say much on the history of basketball but as it is today it has grown to be much larger than a college-specific game. Especially considering the rise in europeans players.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by thedukeman View Post
    I disagree that people are watching players because their college team is recruiting them. I think you are overestimating this select group of "college basketball fans" you are referring to. The same ideas you typed would be applicable to highschool athletes. People who live in the same state or area as the players and want to watch them play. Regardless, I think people just want to see the next crop of elite athletes. It would seem silly to make high school mixtapes and host aau tournaments if only fans of the colleges athletes were considering were viewing. There is clearly a much larger audience than that. In many cases, it is correlation rather than causation as you suggest. Many fans support a college team, or nba team, because of the exciting players they have and fans enjoy watching. These fans support the team because of the players, not the college. I can't say much on the history of basketball but as it is today it has grown to be much larger than a college-specific game. Especially considering the rise in europeans players.
    I think that you seriously overestimate both the depth and breadth of interest in and loyalty to basketball. I have been a diehard basketball fan since the 1950s. I watched Ritchie Schwarz play for Long Island U in an NCAA Tournament game in about 1959 or 60. I have attended many ACC Tournaments and NCAA Tournaments - from the '60's forward. I am a charter member of Iron Dukes. All that is said to provide some bona fides for my position. I a m of the opinion that except for the extreme, die hard basketball junkie, no one watches highschool mixed tapes. The only ones that I have ever watched were on Duke commits and even those are hard to watch for more than a moment.

    Basketball is spare time passtime for most fans. College and\or community give a continuity to that interest. The current landsape of revolving door rosters does not foster a level of interest that can maintain the interest of the general fan. If I don't know the players I don't care to invest my time watching.

    I think all the current changes are killing the game.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Indoor66 View Post
    I think that you seriously overestimate both the depth and breadth of interest in and loyalty to basketball. I have been a diehard basketball fan since the 1950s. I watched Ritchie Schwarz play for Long Island U in an NCAA Tournament game in about 1959 or 60. I have attended many ACC Tournaments and NCAA Tournaments - from the '60's forward. I am a charter member of Iron Dukes. All that is said to provide some bona fides for my position. I a m of the opinion that except for the extreme, die hard basketball junkie, no one watches highschool mixed tapes. The only ones that I have ever watched were on Duke commits and even those are hard to watch for more than a moment.

    Basketball is spare time passtime for most fans. College and\or community give a continuity to that interest. The current landsape of revolving door rosters does not foster a level of interest that can maintain the interest of the general fan. If I don't know the players I don't care to invest my time watching.

    I think all the current changes are killing the game.
    Reasonable minds will disagree! You guys could be right idk. What i do know though is it that mixtapes and highschool basketball are not marketed towards your demographic. It's mostly for younger fans who are also in highschool or even younger. It wouldn't surprise me if almost nobody on this site watched high school mixtapes other than duke players because this is a college forum site. I think a duke forum might be the worst place for me to find someone else who shares my position given how crazy loyal the fan base is lol. I love it though.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by Indoor66 View Post
    I think that you seriously overestimate both the depth and breadth of interest in and loyalty to basketball. I have been a diehard basketball fan since the 1950s. I watched Ritchie Schwarz play for Long Island U in an NCAA Tournament game in about 1959 or 60. I have attended many ACC Tournaments and NCAA Tournaments - from the '60's forward. I am a charter member of Iron Dukes. All that is said to provide some bona fides for my position. I a m of the opinion that except for the extreme, die hard basketball junkie, no one watches highschool mixed tapes. The only ones that I have ever watched were on Duke commits and even those are hard to watch for more than a moment.

    Basketball is spare time passtime for most fans. College and\or community give a continuity to that interest. The current landsape of revolving door rosters does not foster a level of interest that can maintain the interest of the general fan. If I don't know the players I don't care to invest my time watching.

    I think all the current changes are killing the game.
    Here are some similar comments I wrote in a different thread but are applicable here.

    Quote Originally Posted by GGLC which I responded to....

    It's really hard to care about any of this. Another bunch we'll never get to know.

    This hits on something that the NCAA, coaches and experts are failing to account for as they see a new model for college basketball. What drives the billion dollar business are fans that are passionate about the college game.

    If I want to watch the BEST players I will tune into NBA basketball. Some of the games are boring but there is no lack of athletic highlight plays.

    If I want to CARE about the games I tune into college basketball. I have teams that I care about since I or family members attended the schools (Duke, UVA, VT) or I grew up watching teams (Villanova, Penn, LaSalle, Drexel, St. Joe's).

    As GGLC or I start to lose the attachment to the teams because I do not know the players, we may just gravitate to watching the NBA.

    Yes the students will still go to games in Cameron but I will be interested to see how populated K-ville is as the college model changes.
    Families of players will still go to games but will other non-students go or will their entertainment dollar go to some other activity. I enjoyed watching the NCAA this year but there were some nice days where I went to play golf instead of analyzing my brackets.

    The NCAA and the college basketball industry may find out that the golden goose is less valuable unless they pay attention to the fans.

  10. #10
    You canít even make money on G league games. People watch HS mix tapes of players their school is recruiting because they are free. The games those mix-tapes are drawn from are complete crap. This idea is worse even than Levar Ballís league. I donít think they will ever play a game but no way season 2 will happen. NBA teams canít recruit players. So unless your team is bad and the ping pong balls rose in your favor, there is no point in watching HS ball. I guess Zion was an exception although I have to say he was vastly under-rated because his HS league looked a private Middle School for the arts league.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by thedukeman View Post
    Reasonable minds will disagree! You guys could be right idk. What i do know though is it that mixtapes and highschool basketball are not marketed towards your demographic. It's mostly for younger fans who are also in highschool or even younger. It wouldn't surprise me if almost nobody on this site watched high school mixtapes other than duke players because this is a college forum site. I think a duke forum might be the worst place for me to find someone else who shares my position given how crazy loyal the fan base is lol. I love it though.
    Hmmm - a for profit league aimed at HS students? This a very untapped demographic. Because they donít have any money.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    North of Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by lotusland View Post
    You canít even make money on G league games. People watch HS mix tapes of players their school is recruiting because they are free. The games those mix-tapes are drawn from are complete crap. This idea is worse even than Levar Ballís league. I donít think they will ever play a game but no way season 2 will happen. NBA teams canít recruit players. So unless your team is bad and the ping pong balls rose in your favor, there is no point in watching HS ball. I guess Zion was an exception although I have to say he was vastly under-rated because his HS league looked a private Middle School for the arts league.
    I'm in my 40s so I'm not the target audience, but Overtime (the company that just raised $80 million from Bezos and others) and other sites like it don't make money by charging you to watch. They make money off of advertising and selling related merchandise and through other brand extensions. I personally have very little interest but they get millions of views. And these teenagers who are doing the viewing have a lot of purchasing power - shoes, soft drinks, etc. I'm not sure if this league idea will work, but they are doing very well with their existing business model of showing clips of HS kids.

  13. #13
    I wish them luck. Iím in favor of any and all avenues for ball players who donít want to go to college to apply their trade. But I wouldnít invest my souvenir Jamaican $10 bill in that Leaugue.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by lotusland View Post
    Hmmm - a for profit league aimed at HS students? This a very untapped demographic. Because they donít have any money.
    I don't know how to respond should I just mentioned any successful product that has been targeted towards young adults and their parents? There are many examples that I won't get into.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyNotCrazie View Post
    I'm in my 40s so I'm not the target audience, but Overtime (the company that just raised $80 million from Bezos and others) and other sites like it don't make money by charging you to watch. They make money off of advertising and selling related merchandise and through other brand extensions. I personally have very little interest but they get millions of views. And these teenagers who are doing the viewing have a lot of purchasing power - shoes, soft drinks, etc. I'm not sure if this league idea will work, but they are doing very well with their existing business model of showing clips of HS kids.
    Exactly. People don't seem to have a grasp how the new digital platform for sports works. You don't sell tickets or viewing packages, you rack up views and sell advertising space. Many people here seem to think all four million of zion's highschool mixtape must be duke fans and the 2 million subscribers to ballislife, the youtube channel that posts high school mixtapes including zions, are only looking at players considering their respective colleges. Those numbers do not add up.

  16. #16
    Last thing I'll mention because I'm realizing I'm beating a dead horse, but here is a quote from a ny times article about the overtime league:

    "If a crazy highlight or moment from a high school game floated across one of your social media feeds, it was probably filmed by Overtime. If you saw any dunks from Zion Williamson before he played for Duke, they were probably filmed by Overtime. The company says its videos are viewed almost two billion times each month.

    Overtime, which was founded in 2016 and got an early investment from David Stern, the former N.B.A. commissioner, has made connections with young prospects by building its presence in high school gyms across the country, where filming rights are essentially free and the competition not nearly the same as the ever-shifting battle among media behemoths to televise college and professional sports."

    Imagine going to a gym with a camera for 45 minutes and filming a video that ends up being around 10 mins long and receives 2 billions views. Compare that to a tv show which pays actors, producers, props and other stuff (idk tv but i imagine there are a lot of costs). Idk how tv shows compare with views, but that seems like a very low cost business model to make a lot of money. And 2 billion seems to account for many more people than just fans looking at their college's recruits. Idk. maybe some of the people here know something Jeff Bezos doesnt.

    NY times article: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/04/s...chool-pay.html

  17. #17
    Iím willing right now to make several pie bets that this league never has a second season. I wouldnít invest in the league but I will confidently bet against it. Duke was not the favorite for Zion btw. Kentucky and Clemson were favored and others were in the mix. His college basketball potential drove the interest. Even so, Zion is once in a generation player. There arenít any Zions in HS now much less 30. Whatever the rules are for pie bets Iím all in.

Similar Threads

  1. High School BB
    By Saratoga2 in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-18-2016, 06:09 PM
  2. From Euroleague to US High School?
    By Billy Dat in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 09-05-2009, 04:26 PM
  3. Another High School Hoops Edition
    By watzone in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-25-2009, 09:23 AM
  4. Duke Prospects - High School Hoops Report
    By watzone in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 01-11-2009, 12:46 PM
  5. The High School Election
    By godukerocks in forum Off Topic
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 04-02-2008, 09:19 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •