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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    North of Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by 907bluedevils View Post
    Maybe he isn't realistic about his abilities and doesn't agree with your plan for him and thinks he can get to the NBA and stay there if he had more opportunity...which could be why he is looking for greener pastures?
    Yes - I said I thought he was realistic about his abilities, i.e. now I am second guessing my prior hypothesis. Or maybe none of us know anything and there is more talent there than we saw on the court and he will flourish elsewhere - it has happened before. I don't know what to believe anymore. I wish I could get in the Hot Tub Time Machine back to a simpler time.

  2. #42
    No allegiance to college programs anymore like it used to be, not as much of a team game anymore to me as it is what can the program do for me to showcase my skills? That mindset has infiltrated places I never thought it would have: Duke. Look at a guy like Justin Robinson if you want to know what allegiance and staying the course looks like ... guy could have started and showcased his skills at dozens of D1 programs but chose Duke because he wanted to be there ... wish more guys saw their commitments like Justin saw his. It’s a shame because I really liked what Henry stood for as a person ...

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    New Bern, NC unless it's a home football game then I'm grilling on Devil's Alley
    Thanks for visiting.

    I am getting more than frustrated over one guy leaving because of another coming in. What happened to self confidence and believing that you'd be just fine no matter who tries to unseat you?

    With this being the prevailing attitude, I don't mind them leaving. That's not a competitive spirit that will put another banner in the rafters.
    So frustrating that it is the mentality.

    Goodbye and good luck.
    Q "Why do you like Duke, you didn't even go there." A "Because my art school didn't have a basketball team."

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    So I guess bringing in Theo John didn't add to our number of practice bodies after all. Anybody happy with this trade?

    And for those who say that bringing in Theo didn't drive Henry out the door, I suppose you can keep telling yourselves that, but I don't believe it for a minute.
    I'm still happy with it, as I think John will be better this year than what Coleman would have been. And, ultimately, given Coach K's limited remaining shelf life and the complete uncertainty as to what the 2022-23 roster will look like, I'm in favor of maximizing the chance next year.

    But, yes, it does suck that Coleman is leaving. It hurts continuity for the 2022-23 season, as we'll most likely have no returning frontcourt players. It just increases the need for another transfer next year.

    But yeah, I am still good with the tradeoff. Because honestly who is to say Coleman would be here in 2022-23 anyway? Such is the landscape of college bball these days. Just look at UVa and their struggles with keeping top-50/75 recruits in house.

  5. #45
    This is a real surprise. I mean, every team has to have players on the bench, they can't all transfer if they're not starting, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    So I guess bringing in Theo John didn't add to our number of practice bodies after all. Anybody happy with this trade?

    And for those who say that bringing in Theo didn't drive Henry out the door, I suppose you can keep telling yourselves that, but I don't believe it for a minute.
    I'm a bit surprised, if only because Theo John only has one year of eligibility remaining. He, Paolo Banchero, and probably Mark Williams will all be gone in a year. Yes, Duke will recruit some other guys, but it would have been wide open for Henry.

    Henry stuck with Duke when Matthew Hurt was already on the roster and we recruited Jalen Johnson, Mark Williams, Jaemyn Brakefield (all ranked ahead of him), plus Patrick Tape. He was theoretically behind five guys at the 4/5. But now that he'd be behind three guys (Williams, Banchero, John), that doesn't work for him. Huh? Is there any guarantee that Theo John plays more minutes than Patrick Tape did?

    Quote Originally Posted by hallcity View Post
    So, we’re back in the market for at least one more recruit or transfer? I hope Baldwin is a real possibility but anyone else? We were linked at one point to Shaq’s son. Is he still a possibility?
    Why would anyone want to come to Duke--or any other school--if they're not starting or guaranteed big minutes?

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by CameronDuke View Post
    I wonder if the transfer rate for Duke is higher now than in previous years? Seems like this one came out of left field and is close to being the one that breaks the camel’s back where we can start saying Duke definitively has more transfers now than in previous eras ...
    It didn't come out of left field. It was easily predictable after we successfully recruited Theo John. I mean, come on, I can't think of anything easier to see coming than this.

    And frankly, with the extra eligibility and the "free" transfer this season, I don't think you can fairly compare this to any previous time period.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Phredd3 View Post
    I'm going to just straight-up say that I'm not all for that. It's bad for teams. Limiting movement is productive. It forces people to learn to work through things. Is it always the right thing? Of course not. But that's what waivers were for. The "free transfer" system doesn't work, and this year proves it conclusively. It wouldn't work in the NBA, either.
    I think kids should be allowed to transfer without waiting out if the coach leaves/is fired. Other than that, have them sit out a year.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by LasVegas View Post
    You don’t even have to go back that far. Our 2010 champ team was full of multi-year players. Stuff has really changed in the last 6 years or so.
    Yeah. But even in the last 6 years since our 2015 title team, there have been three freshman TOTAL on the national championship teams from 2016–2021 (I think you were referring to just Duke, just pointing out the broader picture). Clearly OAD is not the only path to success even in the last 6 years.

    But, transfers make things totally different. This is just a very different year because of that.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    I'm still happy with it, as I think John will be better this year than what Coleman would have been. And, ultimately, given Coach K's limited remaining shelf life and the complete uncertainty as to what the 2022-23 roster will look like, I'm in favor of maximizing the chance next year.

    But, yes, it does suck that Coleman is leaving. It just increases the need for another transfer next year.
    Well, 6'8 235 SF/PF Jairus Hamilton just entered the portal from Maryland. Originally from Charlotte.

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    I'm still happy with it, as I think John will be better this year than what Coleman would have been. And, ultimately, given Coach K's limited remaining shelf life and the complete uncertainty as to what the 2022-23 roster will look like, I'm in favor of maximizing the chance next year.

    But, yes, it does suck that Coleman is leaving. It hurts continuity for the 2022-23 season, as we'll most likely have no returning frontcourt players. It just increases the need for another transfer next year.

    But yeah, I am still good with the tradeoff. Because honestly who is to say Coleman would be here in 2022-23 anyway? Such is the landscape of college bball these days. Just look at UVa and their struggles with keeping top-50/75 recruits in house.
    Bingo. If there is only one college basketball season left, I'd "trade" John for Coleman any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

    But, college basketball has many seasons left. Coach K doesn't.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  11. #51
    Do we think Henry goes to Charlottesville and joins Tony Bennett’s squad? UVa had a guy transfer in conference this off-season. Casey Morsell left the Hoos for Raleigh and NCSU.

  12. #52
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by bshrader View Post
    Well, 6'8 235 SF/PF Jairus Hamilton just entered the portal from Maryland. Originally from Charlotte.
    I was referring to the 2022-23 season, not the 2021-22 season. We still have 10 scholarship players (albeit the 10th is a fringe inclusion).

    My point was more next offseason, when we could very well have no more than 2-3 players at all returning, and no frontcourt guys.

  13. #53
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Of all the Duke freshmen, he was the one I was most enjoying getting to know over the course of his career.

    We all want Duke to field an older, veteran team, while winning games. I'm just not sure how we get there anymore. No one in recent Duke memory seemed more like a prototypical, old-fashioned four-year guy, learn, pay your dues, get better and better.

    The count is now up to five, five members of Duke's 2020-21 team who never played in front of the Crazies, never high-fived the Blue Devil, never got goose bumps hearing the pep band play Devil With a Blue Dress On, while the cheerleaders go at it, never talked with the media in any way other than Zoom.

    Hopefully, this will self-correct over time. But anyone good enough to get a scholarship offer from Duke is going to be good enough to get serious attention from almost any program out there. None of these guys are going to be left at the altar.

    That's going to make it very, very difficult to put together a cohesive, veteran team. Unless everyone is comfortable with a run of .500 seasons. Recruiting players good enough to play at the level we've become accustomed to while staying around for awhile is going to require threading a very tight opening.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    It didn't come out of left field. It was easily predictable after we successfully recruited Theo John. I mean, come on, I can't think of anything easier to see coming than this.

    And frankly, with the extra eligibility and the "free" transfer this season, I don't think you can fairly compare this to any previous time period.
    If it was so easy to see coming, that begs some questions about what the Duke staff is thinking.

    Like, are they *that* out of touch with their players? (Doubtful)

    Did they just not see Henry as a contributor? (Also doubtful)

    If not those things, then what?

    Two possible ideas I can think of:
    - They knew Henry might transfer *before* this happened. Banchero. Williams, Griffin, Moore and possibly Baldwin all competing for minutes at the 4/5.

    - They are going all in on this year and we’re willing to take the risk of alienating Coleman and harming their long term upside for a guy who raises their floor a bit (theoretically) next year.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    It didn't come out of left field. It was easily predictable after we successfully recruited Theo John. I mean, come on, I can't think of anything easier to see coming than this.

    And frankly, with the extra eligibility and the "free" transfer this season, I don't think you can fairly compare this to any previous time period.
    I literally read nothing about the potential of Henry transferring. Nothing. Must have missed it. Seemed to me like the kind of kid that is in college for more than basketball, maybe let’s say academics? A Duke education seemed like something he’d want. I don’t see him currently playing in the NBA for very long after college but maybe I’m wrong ...

  16. #56
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Las Vegas, Nevada (Ohio born and raised)
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    I was referring to the 2022-23 season, not the 2021-22 season. We still have 10 scholarship players (albeit the 10th is a fringe inclusion).

    My point was more next offseason, when we could very well have no more than 2-3 players at all returning, and no frontcourt guys.
    2 players returning? My God. What has this become!!!!!!!!!!

  17. #57
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    I was referring to the 2022-23 season, not the 2021-22 season. We still have 10 scholarship players (albeit the 10th is a fringe inclusion).

    My point was more next offseason, when we could very well have no more than 2-3 players at all returning, and no frontcourt guys.
    Isn't the 9th guy (Blakes) kinda fringe too (I assume #10 is Jones?)? How many freshman ranked #50+ are part of the rotation at Duke? I get we need guard depth, but not sure Blakes is the answer...
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  18. #58
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    New Orleans, Louisiana
    Quote Originally Posted by Natty_B View Post
    4 of the 6 recruits from last year are gone.
    Could be 8 players off last year's roster:

    Mike Buckmire
    Jordan Goldwire
    Patrick Tapé
    Matthew Hurt
    Jalen Johnson
    DJ Steward
    Jaemyn Brakefield
    Henry Coleman

    Not sure about Buckmire, but 7 of them left Duke to play somewhere else (pro or college) next season. Despite recently adding three new incoming players (Trevor Keels, Theo John, Jaylen Blakes) to two signed recruits (Paolo Banchero, AJ Griffin), Duke would still have to add 3 more players to have a roster the same size as Fall 2020.

    ETA: Crap! Forgot about Bates Jones. Sorry. So it’s a roster of 12, not 11.
    Last edited by brevity; 04-20-2021 at 03:32 PM.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by CameronDuke View Post
    Do we think Henry goes to Charlottesville and joins Tony Bennett’s squad? UVa had a guy transfer in conference this off-season. Casey Morsell left the Hoos for Raleigh and NCSU.
    View in C'ville is that he's probably not coming here. Partially because we're not sure Bennett is interested (we just got a 4 from ECU, and Henry's recruitment was... a little weird. Which isn't intended as a dig on him, by all accounts he's a great kid), but mostly because we think his transfer was worked out with a destination in advance and that destination wasn't us. Current bet is that he's leaving the ACC, and signs point to VCU.

  20. #60
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by DukieTiger View Post
    If it was so easy to see coming, that begs some questions about what the Duke staff is thinking.

    Like, are they *that* out of touch with their players? (Doubtful)

    Did they just not see Henry as a contributor? (Also doubtful)

    If not those things, then what?

    Two possible ideas I can think of:
    - They knew Henry might transfer *before* this happened. Banchero. Williams, Griffin, Moore and possibly Baldwin all competing for minutes at the 4/5.

    - They are going all in on this year and we’re willing to take the risk of alienating Coleman and harming their long term upside for a guy who raises their floor a bit (theoretically) next year.
    I think these two are probably, in some combination, correct.

    And I think whenever a top-50 player doesn't play major minutes right away, we should suspect the possibility of a transfer. That's the nature of the college basketball landscape. Guys know there are legitimate opportunities to play right away elsewhere, and they are more willing to take that opportunity than they were 10 or 20 years ago. Especially this year, with there being no penalty for transferring.

    We have been fairly lucky as Duke fans: we avoided the early-entry problems with our stars well past when most teams did, and we avoided having major issues with transfers a few years longer than most teams did. But this year might just be the beginning of a new era, especially if the one-year transfer penalty stays gone moving forward.

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