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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Mount Kisco, NY
    I agree that this one really hurts, and it feels like the staff is not connected very well to the players, which seems really weird when the staff includes guys like Nolan, Scheyer and C-Well. Strange days, indeed.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by kAzE View Post
    This is brutal. I know everyone has said something to this effect, but the annual complete turnover of college rosters is really killing my interest in college basketball.
    Total 100% agreement with this.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by LasVegas View Post
    You don’t even have to go back that far. Our 2010 champ team was full of multi-year players. Stuff has really changed in the last 6 years or so.
    The 2013 team had a bunch of juniors and seniors.

    The 2016 team had a number of multi-year guys, including Grayson Allen, Matt Jones, Amile Jefferson, and Marshall Plumlee.

    Since then, though, the number of guys willing to stick it out for 2-3 years is dwindling.

    Hopefully, things calm down next offseason and the entire college basketball community has a less chaotic situation overall. I'm not going to blame a kid for wanting to bounce if he can get the minutes somewhere else. I think Henry would have carved out an important role for himself in 2022-23, but that's asking a lot.

  4. #24
    4 of the 6 recruits from last year are gone.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    Okay.

    Next play.

    What else is there to be said.
    Well, there is the relationship between Henry and Mark Williams. Believe they’ve been long term friends since childhood. Does this negatively (for us) impact Mark’s looming decision?

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Quote Originally Posted by LasVegas View Post
    You don’t even have to go back that far. Our 2010 champ team was full of multi-year players. Stuff has really changed in the last 6 years or so.
    Stuff has really changed this year.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Best wishes to him. I tried to tell you guys you were being too optimistic when anticipating a bunch of returnees next year.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBenAkiva View Post
    The 2013 team had a bunch of juniors and seniors.

    The 2016 team had a number of multi-year guys, including Grayson Allen, Matt Jones, Amile Jefferson, and Marshall Plumlee.

    Since then, though, the number of guys willing to stick it out for 2-3 years is dwindling.

    Hopefully, things calm down next offseason and the entire college basketball community has a less chaotic situation overall. I'm not going to blame a kid for wanting to bounce if he can get the minutes somewhere else. I think Henry would have carved out an important role for himself in 2022-23, but that's asking a lot.
    Is it though?

  9. #29
    scottdude8's Avatar
    scottdude8 is offline Contributor, Zoubek disciple, and resident Wolverine
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Toronto
    This... this just sucks. I try to find the silver lining in most things, but I can't find it here. I, like many here, LOVED what Henry brought to the team last year and was so excited to see him develop over 3-4 years at Duke. It seems like that's just not an option anymore.

    But, as many have said, anyone who is going to ring alarm bells over this has to view this in the context of the landscape of CBB right now. Almost EVERY program is losing players like this, including many of our fellow "blue bloods" and ACC competitors. Like it or not, new transfer rules, the lure of the NBA, and the increasing viability of the G-league is going to lead to significant roster turnover year to year and something akin to free agency each off season. And it's not likely to change anytime soon, so we can either choose to make the best of it or give up on the game entirely. I'm not throwing the baby out with the bathwater, so I'm going with the former.

    Also worth keeping in mind that transfer led teams have had success recently. Baylor had a ton of transfers who contributed to their national title. 2 of Michigan's top 6 players last season were "OAD transfers", and that didn't diminish my enjoyment of that squad.

    I have faith that Coach K and the program will adjust to this new reality, just like we adjusted to the OAD. I just wish it could've happened with Henry Coleman in a Duke jersey. This one stings.
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  10. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    North of Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by chrishoke View Post
    Henry Coleman is exactly the type of person I want in the Duke BB Program. This is devastating.
    Totally agree. I would prefer to have a team full of Henry Coleman's (but ones who stuck around longer) who seem interested in Duke for what happens on both sides of Towerview Road but might lose a few more games.

    I thought Henry was one of the few players who was realistic about his abilities - a very talented player, but likely not going to the NBA, who would use Duke basketball to get a Duke degree, become part of the brotherhood, maybe bounce around the G League or Europe for a few years then go conquer the world.

    I am all for players being free to move around like regular students and coaches but there has to be another solution to this massive turnover.

  11. #31
    So, we’re back in the market for at least one more recruit or transfer? I hope Baldwin is a real possibility but anyone else? We were linked at one point to Shaq’s son. Is he still a possibility?

  12. #32
    I wonder if the transfer rate for Duke is higher now than in previous years? Seems like this one came out of left field and is close to being the one that breaks the camel’s back where we can start saying Duke definitively has more transfers now than in previous eras ...

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Watching carolina Go To HELL!
    Quote Originally Posted by CameronDuke View Post
    I wonder if the transfer rate for Duke is higher now than in previous years? Seems like this one came out of left field and is close to being the one that breaks the camel’s back where we can start saying Duke definitively has more transfers now than in previous eras ...
    There are/were over 1000 players in the transfer portal this year. EVERY team has more transfers than in previous years.

    Losing Henry sucks.
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  14. #34
    So I guess bringing in Theo John didn't add to our number of practice bodies after all. Anybody happy with this trade?

    And for those who say that bringing in Theo didn't drive Henry out the door, I suppose you can keep telling yourselves that, but I don't believe it for a minute.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by OZZIE4DUKE View Post
    There are/were over 1000 players in the transfer portal this year. EVERY team has more transfers than in previous years.

    Losing Henry sucks.
    How does the NCAA fix this? Require recruits who commit to NCAA D1 programs stay 2ish years minimum?

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyNotCrazie View Post
    Totally agree. I would prefer to have a team full of Henry Coleman's (but ones who stuck around longer) who seem interested in Duke for what happens on both sides of Towerview Road but might lose a few more games.

    I thought Henry was one of the few players who was realistic about his abilities - a very talented player, but likely not going to the NBA, who would use Duke basketball to get a Duke degree, become part of the brotherhood, maybe bounce around the G League or Europe for a few years then go conquer the world.

    I am all for players being free to move around like regular students and coaches but there has to be another solution to this massive turnover.

    Maybe he isn't realistic about his abilities and doesn't agree with your plan for him and thinks he can get to the NBA and stay there if he had more opportunity...which could be why he is looking for greener pastures?

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyNotCrazie View Post
    I am all for players being free to move around like regular students and coaches but there has to be another solution to this massive turnover.
    I'm going to just straight-up say that I'm not all for that. It's bad for teams. Limiting movement is productive. It forces people to learn to work through things. Is it always the right thing? Of course not. But that's what waivers were for. The "free transfer" system doesn't work, and this year proves it conclusively. It wouldn't work in the NBA, either.

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by CameronDuke View Post
    How does the NCAA fix this? Require recruits who commit to NCAA D1 programs stay 2ish years minimum?
    This year in an anomaly. Players can transfer without sitting out. It's an open market without any restrictions.

    I cannot blame Henry Coleman or Duke in the slightest. Henry wants to play so he leaves and can play 3x the minutes at another Power 6 school. Duke is looking to win this year (because Coach K is retiring?) and brings in a college-ready and college-proven player in Theo John.

    To me, this isn't surprising nor devastating. It's an anomaly coupled with a coach who is retiring soon.
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  19. #39
    Just for some context and perspective, there are 5,431 current Division 1 college basketball players (according to google).

    There are currently 1,417 players (including Coleman) in the transfer portal. That's 26% of all D1 players.

    Just let that sink in. 1 in 4 are in the transfer portal. Every team is experiencing turnover at this point at an unprecedented rate.

  20. #40
    scottdude8's Avatar
    scottdude8 is offline Contributor, Zoubek disciple, and resident Wolverine
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Toronto
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    So I guess bringing in Theo John didn't add to our number of practice bodies after all. Anybody happy with this trade?

    And for those who say that bringing in Theo didn't drive Henry out the door, I suppose you can keep telling yourselves that, but I don't believe it for a minute.
    I have to think (hope) that the staff is in tune enough with the players that they knew this was a possibility. Under that assumption, the thought process probably was that the expected value we'd get from having Theo John on the roster this year as the primary backup big would be higher than the expected value from this year of Henry plus potentially 2 more years (with the added uncertainty of those two years factored in).

    If the staff thinks that this year's squad has a National Championship level ceiling, this "trade" probably is justified in their view, as having a primary backup big who is more of a known and seasoned quantity helps this year's team. But we obviously lose long term value if Henry develops the way we all thought/hoped he would.

    Perhaps the staff knew that there wasn't a guarantee that Henry stuck around for four years even if we gave him the bulk of the backup big minutes this year, and thus felt the risk was worth it. Perhaps the staff is less bullish on Henry than many of us are. Perhaps there are plans for other recruits/transfers. Who the heck knows. Normally, I (and many others here) would preach a "Trust Coach K" message in times like these. But given how many of us grew particularly attached to Henry this past season, it's a lot harder to swallow that message.

    TL;DR: if we're considering this a straight up trade of Theo for Henry, we probably sacrificed more certainty from our backup big this year for the potential, albeit uncertain, of a junior/senior year Henry Coleman. Whether or not that trade is worth it will be determined by how much success we have this season.
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