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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by bshrader View Post
    All these cryptic tweets are really starting to worry me. I know Jason says his sources indicate strongly that Mark is returning. I just wonder if anything has changed in the last week or so...Jason, any updates?
    Jason earlier admitted his sources didnít expect Steward to take off. With at least one draft ďexpertĒ placing Mark in 1st round I donít feel confident heís on our roster next year. I will be relieved if he stays at this point, but not expecting it.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    No course at Duke is going to help with this. No one takes a "personal finance" course, if that even exists. As you mentioned, you learn through maturity, but you also learn through family/friends. Another year at Duke will help with the maturity, and it will probably help with gaining new networks/connections/friends who can help navigate you through the bazillions of dollars you'll be making at 20-years old.

    But if you already have a strong network and a family who understands money management, I'm not sure what another year at Duke - or any university - will provide on that front.
    Personally, I think everyone should have to have a course in basic finance/budgeting course and a basic household tasks course (what is a screwdriver and how to use it, checking your oil, etc.) in high school. You don't have to have a ton of money to make bad decisions and not everyone is fortunate enough to have an example in their own house.

    This is just a guess, but I would think that most athletic departments have resources available, outside of a classroom, to help their athletes gain insight on how to handle professional sports career - basic contract info, agents, finances, etc. If not, in my opinion, they are doing their student athletes a disservice. I believe sports franchises and leagues are also working to be sure their athletes are better informed. Derrick Thomas' death in 2000 and poor financial planning/knowledge served as a lesson to many. (For those that don't recall - he died as the result of a terrible accident with no estate plan, multiple children, and not as much money left as one would think for being in the middle of a $27m, 7 year NFL contract.)

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    Quote Originally Posted by DukieInKansas View Post
    Personally, I think everyone should have to have a course in basic finance/budgeting course and a basic household tasks course (what is a screwdriver and how to use it, checking your oil, etc.) in high school. You don't have to have a ton of money to make bad decisions and not everyone is fortunate enough to have an example in their own house.

    This is just a guess, but I would think that most athletic departments have resources available, outside of a classroom, to help their athletes gain insight on how to handle professional sports career - basic contract info, agents, finances, etc. If not, in my opinion, they are doing their student athletes a disservice. I believe sports franchises and leagues are also working to be sure their athletes are better informed. Derrick Thomas' death in 2000 and poor financial planning/knowledge served as a lesson to many. (For those that don't recall - he died as the result of a terrible accident with no estate plan, multiple children, and not as much money left as one would think for being in the middle of a $27m, 7 year NFL contract.)
    yes, one can hope. While it may seem condescending to some about what athletes need to learn, the stats on bankruptcies among pro athletes shortly after retirement is simply unacceptable. They absolutely need to know where there money is going, and why...they also need to learn to not trust everyone, and that's a difficult subject.

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    North of Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by DukieInKansas View Post
    Personally, I think everyone should have to have a course in basic finance/budgeting course and a basic household tasks course (what is a screwdriver and how to use it, checking your oil, etc.) in high school. You don't have to have a ton of money to make bad decisions and not everyone is fortunate enough to have an example in their own house.

    This is just a guess, but I would think that most athletic departments have resources available, outside of a classroom, to help their athletes gain insight on how to handle professional sports career - basic contract info, agents, finances, etc. If not, in my opinion, they are doing their student athletes a disservice. I believe sports franchises and leagues are also working to be sure their athletes are better informed. Derrick Thomas' death in 2000 and poor financial planning/knowledge served as a lesson to many. (For those that don't recall - he died as the result of a terrible accident with no estate plan, multiple children, and not as much money left as one would think for being in the middle of a $27m, 7 year NFL contract.)
    As much as we don't think that a basic finance/life skills class is part of a college curriculum (though I totally agree that it would better fit in HS), while at Duke I took for credit Intro to Golf (the written test on rules of golf was actually one of the harder exams I took my senior year), Theories and Practices of Coaching (with Pete Gaudet - one of the best classes I took at Duke with one of the nicest people you will ever meet) and Marketing College Sports Events. If I could take those for credit from Duke University (and get accepted to Ivy League grad schools with all of those on my transcript), then a half credit life skills class should also be available as part of the curriculum.

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkD83 View Post
    I always have thought that 2 full years at Duke for players that want to earn a degree makes it doable.

    I think Duke requires 34 classes to graduate. The schedule for classes could be:
    The student enters with 2 AP credits and then takes 2 classes the Summer before freshman year (4 classes)
    4 classes in the Fall and 4 in the Spring of freshman year (12 total)
    4 classes over the Summer of freshman year (16 total) - This might be a bit much.
    4 classes in the Fall and 4 in the Spring of sophomore year (24 total)
    2 classes in the Summer before the NBA season (26 total)
    The 8 remaining classes can then be taken 2 at a time over the next 4 Summers...or if there are on-line classes these can be spread out over the 4 years.

    This is ambitious and not for everyone but if a student/athlete wants to get a degree this could work.
    This schedule is beyond ambitious for an undergrad at one of the top-tier DI athletic programs in the country which is ALSO very competitive academically. I would go so far as to say it is unrealistic. 4 full classes is a full load for any incoming freshman, unless they are pretty exceptional academically and have a great academic attitude. For a new recruit in top-tier athletics during the competition season with four equivalent semesters yet to come? That's a big ask. There are 20 contact-hours permitted during the season, and that doesn't count the workouts you are supposed to do on your own. That might be the equivalent of a 60-hour work week for a freshman.

    Is it theoretically possible? For academically gifted and driven students, maybe. For most kids, if I were their parent, I'd tell them to plan on coming back rather than trying to do all that. Most kids that age still have some maturing to do.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    yes, one can hope. While it may seem condescending to some about what athletes need to learn, the stats on bankruptcies among pro athletes shortly after retirement is simply unacceptable. They absolutely need to know where there money is going, and why...they also need to learn to not trust everyone, and that's a difficult subject.
    These statistics on post-career bankruptcies are all based on a single report from Sports Illustrated well over a decade ago. Michele Roberts, the Executive Director of the NBA Players' Association, had a wonderful interview on JJ Redick's podcast back in June, 2018, in which she states that those statistics were highly flawed and grossly overestimated the rate of financial failure. And that was before the integrated effort that the Players' Association has put in place, often in partnership with NBA. It includes financial education for players at entry, and due diligence service which offers objective opinions on potential advisors and investments. They have a series of career education programs instructing players on how to engage in business areas like real estate, franchising, tech, international business, etc. There summer programs and internships. They get a tremendous financial education, far beyond what any college offers. LeBron is likely the role model now for how players plan for the future. Most of these guys will do well for the rest of their lives.

    I think the perpetuation of these "they all go broke" discussions may be driven in part by condescension, resentment over folks who "never graduated college" making a ton more than those who did, and possibly even a subtle touch of racism. Listen to JJ's pod to get a sense of how seriously players, the NBPA, and the NBA take this issue.

  7. #67
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by clinresga View Post
    These statistics on post-career bankruptcies are all based on a single report from Sports Illustrated well over a decade ago. Michele Roberts, the Executive Director of the NBA Players' Association, had a wonderful interview on JJ Redick's podcast back in June, 2018, in which she states that those statistics were highly flawed and grossly overestimated the rate of financial failure. And that was before the integrated effort that the Players' Association has put in place, often in partnership with NBA. It includes financial education for players at entry, and due diligence service which offers objective opinions on potential advisors and investments. They have a series of career education programs instructing players on how to engage in business areas like real estate, franchising, tech, international business, etc. There summer programs and internships. They get a tremendous financial education, far beyond what any college offers. LeBron is likely the role model now for how players plan for the future. Most of these guys will do well for the rest of their lives.

    I think the perpetuation of these "they all go broke" discussions may be driven in part by condescension, resentment over folks who "never graduated college" making a ton more than those who did, and possibly even a subtle touch of racism. Listen to JJ's pod to get a sense of how seriously players, the NBPA, and the NBA take this issue.
    Regardless of the stats in that regard, i'm highly skeptical another year at duke or another year of maturity would stave off any such potential ruin. It's not like anyone is at duke taking personal finance classes, and generally general finance or econ classes don't necessarily enable you to make good decisions on a day to day basis.
    basketball is back, baby!

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    Quote Originally Posted by clinresga View Post
    These statistics on post-career bankruptcies are all based on a single report from Sports Illustrated well over a decade ago. Michele Roberts, the Executive Director of the NBA Players' Association, had a wonderful interview on JJ Redick's podcast back in June, 2018, in which she states that those statistics were highly flawed and grossly overestimated the rate of financial failure. And that was before the integrated effort that the Players' Association has put in place, often in partnership with NBA. It includes financial education for players at entry, and due diligence service which offers objective opinions on potential advisors and investments. They have a series of career education programs instructing players on how to engage in business areas like real estate, franchising, tech, international business, etc. There summer programs and internships. They get a tremendous financial education, far beyond what any college offers. LeBron is likely the role model now for how players plan for the future. Most of these guys will do well for the rest of their lives.

    I think the perpetuation of these "they all go broke" discussions may be driven in part by condescension, resentment over folks who "never graduated college" making a ton more than those who did, and possibly even a subtle touch of racism. Listen to JJ's pod to get a sense of how seriously players, the NBPA, and the NBA take this issue.
    Good info. Having said that, and without going too deeply into the weeds, I continue to read many many troublesome reports about how pro athletes take care of their money, and to whom they entrust it...so even if the SI report was misleading, I still think the topic of financial education is extremely important...it is for everyone, of course, but especially for those who have relatively very short careers, like athletes (ten years if they're lucky).

  9. #69
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    One other thought while nothing is going on: if nothing else, should Mark declare for the NBA (please, please no), I think we could finally banish the phrase "his family values education." Probably should ax it anyway.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    One other thought while nothing is going on: if nothing else, should Mark declare for the NBA (please, please no), I think we could finally banish the phrase "his family values education." Probably should ax it anyway.
    If one were super cynical, one might consider retiring "student-athlete."

    If one were...

  11. #71
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    If one were super cynical, one might consider retiring "student-athlete."

    If one were...
    We should at least call basketball and football players "athlete-students", right? For every Grayson Allen, there are at least 10 who prioritize making millions over an education (and for the record, despite having two degrees, I'd also prioritize making millions over an education).
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  12. #72
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Hillsborough,nc
    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    We should at least call basketball and football players "athlete-students", right? For every Grayson Allen, there are at least 10 who prioritize making millions over an education (and for the record, despite having two degrees, I'd also prioritize making millions over an education).
    Well put.

  13. #73
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    New Orleans, Louisiana
    Still confirmed?

    roster.jpg

    Maybe we wait for an official statement, even if one never comes.

  14. #74
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    We should at least call basketball and football players "athlete-students", right? For every Grayson Allen, there are at least 10 who prioritize making millions over an education (and for the record, despite having two degrees, I'd also prioritize making millions over an education).
    It's those money-grubbing field hockey players that ruin it for everyone.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by brevity View Post
    Still confirmed?

    roster.jpg

    Maybe we wait for an official statement, even if one never comes.
    For real. Change the title of this thread.

  16. #76
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles
    The title of this thread should be changed. Or it should be locked until there is actually a confirmation. Nobody knows anything right now.

  17. #77
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Quote Originally Posted by arnie View Post
    Jason earlier admitted his sources didnít expect Steward to take off.
    Well, what I was told was that DJ would put his name in the draft to test the process but was expected to come back. Clearly, that changed.

    And I have not heard anything on Mark Williams since being told he would 100% be back, but that was several weeks ago. Clearly, things are changing in college ball and I would not be surprised to hear anything at this point. It is the Wild West... lawless.
    I don't know what you are doing right now, but if you aren't listening to the DBR Podcast, you're doing it wrong.

  18. #78
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    New Orleans, Louisiana
    Quote Originally Posted by brevity View Post
    Still confirmed?

    roster.jpg

    Maybe we wait for an official statement, even if one never comes.
    Wow. They changed the roster not even 30 minutes later. Removed Coleman, added Keels.

    roster2.jpg

  19. #79
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by brevity View Post
    Wow. They changed the roster not even 30 minutes later. Removed Coleman, added Keels.

    roster2.jpg
    Duke Basketball comms recruit is on top of it. Clearly more of a multi-year employee than a one and done...
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  20. #80
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    So, a couple days ago Mark Williams tweeted "Don't blame me." Minutes ago he replied to that tweet with a broken heart emoji: https://twitter.com/MarkWi1liams/sta...88859749580802

    Clearly, "don't blame me" was a reference to Henry deciding to leave Duke. But why would anyone blame him for that...

    I don't even want to think about all this any more. I hate what college hoops has become this off-season.

    -Jason "I changed the thread title" Evans
    I don't know what you are doing right now, but if you aren't listening to the DBR Podcast, you're doing it wrong.

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