2021 NCAA Men's Final Four (Gonzaga, Baylor, Houston, UCLA)

[Bluegrassdevil1]

In fairness, no team is ever responsible for being the best team in their sport, they simply are responsible for defeating the teams which stand before them. UCLA lost their last four regular season games; however, if they win the next two, they are given the big trophy, and their wins and losses neither add nor take away, from their possession of the big trophy.

Gonzaga does not have to be one of the greatest teams ever, nor one of the greatest teams this very season. Very simply, they only have to be better than their next two opponents.

Like all Duke fans, I loved the 2010 team, especially their final result. However, I would never want that team to be compared to any other Duke title team (nor SEVERAL non-title teams), or any other national champion. If the 2010 Duke team is forced to define itself by anything other than the fact that they won their final game, then they are very likely to look lesser, by comparison.

I believe than the 2010 team could have beaten other national championship squads (or other great teams); however, I also believe that the majority of prior/future national champions would have defeated the 2010 Devils. But, that does not matter. 2010 had one national championship trophy. Duke has it. 2011 had one big trophy. UConn has it. Duke may have been the best team in 2011, but that does not matter. There is no big trophy in Cameron, marking that year's final success. The hardware is in New England.

Gonzaga may or may not be a great team. They may or may not play a challenging schedule. The Zags may or may not be the best team in 2021. Or any other year or era. But, it does not matter. Four teams are two wins away from sitting on the throne. And whichever group wins twice more is the champion. Of this year. Not last year. Not next year. There is no greatest team trophy. Nor is there a greatest team tournament. Greatness will forever remain subjective. But being a national champion will always remain objective. Because, one way or another, one group is going to hold the 2021 national title. And no would else will ever be able to claim ownership of that object.

[uh_no]

Don’t know if that shot across the bow was directed at me or not, but I would draw a big distinction between discrediting a team and disliking them. I’m the first one to admit that Gonzaga is a very good team. They are clearly the best team in this tournament. No reverse jinxing in that statement. I mean it. In fact that, along with their arrogance, is what has me rooting against them. In many ways I think they are similar to UNLV ‘91. Hoping Baylor gets a chance to knock them off.

I haven't followed the off-court stuff. what arrogance are we talking about?

[Bluedog]

Gonzaga opens as a 14-point favorite, the largest spread in the Final Four since the tournament was expanded in 1985.
Baylor is a 5-point favorite over Houston.

[SouthernDukie]

I haven't followed the off-court stuff. what arrogance are we talking about?

I’m talking on-court. Timme in particular is a hotdogger.

[Steven43]

Well, you ought to watch Gonzaga. They are talented and fun. Beats UVA stall ball any day of the week. (No offense, Cavs fans)

I actually did watch the majority of the Gonzaga v USC game late last night (starting at about midnight). And I concur with what you’ve said about the Bulldogs. I’m rooting for them to win the Tournament.

[uh_no]

I’m talking on-court. Timme in particular is a hotdogger.

relevant source material on hot-dogging: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDysliA7HqI

[SouthernDukie]

relevant source material on hot-dogging: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDysliA7HqI

Wow! I didn’t think I’d live to see the day when someone could compare Zion to Timme. Two completely different attitudes, imho.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Don’t know if that shot across the bow was directed at me or not, but I would draw a big distinction between discrediting a team and disliking them. I’m the first one to admit that Gonzaga is a very good team. They are clearly the best team in this tournament. No reverse jinxing in that statement. I mean it. In fact that, along with their arrogance, is what has me rooting against them. In many ways I think they are similar to UNLV ‘91. Hoping Baylor gets a chance to knock them off.

It absolutely was not a shot at you. Just at some of the attitudes I'm seeing in the media and on this board.

I don't especially give two rips what you think about Gonzaga. I have found it interesting to learn why some people here find them tiresome, but it doesn't have any affect on me.

I'm just pointing out that folks who get caught up in that narrative are missing a fun team to watch.

Not the best team in the history of time, but I would wager they would put in a good game against previous champs.

[uh_no]

Wow! I didn’t think I’d live to see the day when someone could compare Zion to Timme. Two completely different attitudes, imho.

in what way? other than one played for duke and one doesn't, so you're more willing to view the former in a better light?

[75Crazie]

I haven't followed the off-court stuff. what arrogance are we talking about?

As best I can tell, it is perceived arrogance, based on what people think they see on the court. While I can see it ... I don't see that they are clearly more arrogant than any of a number of champions over the years (including 1992 Duke). I attribute at least some of this to east coast bias, or maybe alternatively a P5 conference bias that does not want to acknowledge that a minor conference team can out-perform all the P5 teams. That may well be unfair on my part ... but I do get that kind of vibe from some of the posts here. I for one would quite like to see a Gonzaga win this year, but I admittedly have a pro-Spokane bias (possibly my favorite city).

[flyingdutchdevil]

I’m talking on-court. Timme in particular is a hotdogger.

Are you talking about the mustache shenanigans? Is that the level of showboating you're referring to?

If so, damn! I think you're really looking for reasons to hate the Zags.

[SouthernDukie]

in what way? other than one played for duke and one doesn't, so you're more willing to view the former in a better light?

To me Timme carries himself with an arrogant smugness on the court. Zion and RJ were about youthful exuberance. I just think there’s a difference between those two things..

[uh_no]

Are you talking about the mustache shenanigans? Is that the level of showboating you're referring to?

If so, damn! I think you're really looking for reasons to hate the Zags.

I mean, if he wants to hate the zags, sure. It's sports, you can love or hate whomever you want for whatever reason...but trying to justify it in any sort of rational way like he is just makes duke fans sound silly.

You wanna hate? hate away...but pretending they're not acting like just about any other team who plays at their level at is jealousy.

[SouthernDukie]

Are you talking about the mustache shenanigans? Is that the level of showboating you're referring to?

If so, damn! I think you're really looking for reasons to hate the Zags.

I’ve also stated Gonzaga is the Goliath of this tournament. Since Duke is not in it, I’m rooting for any underdog to knock them off. The arrogance of Timme is just an added bonus to root against them in my book. But to each his own.

[uh_no]

To me Timme carries himself with an arrogant smugness on the court. Zion and RJ were about youthful exuberance. I just think there’s a difference between those two things..

okay this is embarrassing now.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I’ve also stated Gonzaga is the Goliath of this tournament. Since Duke is not in it, I’m rooting for any underdog to knock them off. The arrogance of Timme is just an added bonus to root against them in my book. But to each his own.

Gotcha. I can understand this, but I do see the irony in Gonzaga habitually being the David only to be cast as the Goliath in this tournament.

I like the Zags. Used to dislike them. But I've come to realize the insane hurdles Few had to overcome to get the Zags here (non-Power 6 team playing in the WCC)

[SouthernDukie]

okay this is embarrassing now.

I’m not embarrassed. But if I’m embarrassing you then that’s just an added bonus as well. LOL

I’ve not said Gonzaga does not play great basketball, or that they are not a great team. Just the opposite. They are clearly the best team in the nation this year. A true Goliath this season. But I can root against them and it has nothing to do with embarrassing myself or anyone else. That’s ridiculous.

[SouthernDukie]

Gotcha. I can understand this, but I do see the irony in Gonzaga habitually being the David only to be cast as the Goliath in this tournament.

I like the Zags. Used to dislike them. But I've come to realize the insane hurdles Few had to overcome to get the Zags here (non-Power 6 team playing in the WCC)

And I can completely get on board with that. I’m just not rooting for them to win this tournament. But I acknowledge as true everything you wrote, as Duke found itself in the exact same position in the early 90s. They went from David to Goliath quickly.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Gotcha. I can understand this, but I do see the irony in Gonzaga habitually being the David only to be cast as the Goliath in this tournament.

I like the Zags. Used to dislike them. But I've come to realize the insane hurdles Few had to overcome to get the Zags here (non-Power 6 team playing in the WCC)

This is my perspective as well. If they stop being one of the best programs of the last decade to not win a championship, my interest will wane. Then they are just another good program. Until then, they are Davids to me.

[uh_no]

I’m not embarrassed. But if I’m embarrassing you then that’s just an added bonus as well. LOL

I’ve not said Gonzaga does not play great basketball, or that they are not a great team. Just the opposite. They are clearly the best team in the nation this year. A true Goliath this season. But I can root against them and it has nothing to do with embarrassing myself or anyone else. That’s ridiculous.

you're tearing down a gonzaga player for the exact same things great duke players do.