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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    New Orleans, Louisiana

    2021 NCAA Men's Final Four (Gonzaga, Baylor, Houston, UCLA)

    Saturday's schedule is set.

    Final Four — Saturday, April 3

    (1) Baylor vs. (2) Houston, 5:14 p.m. CBS -- Lucas Oil Stadium Unity
    (1) Gonzaga vs. (11) UCLA, 8:34 p.m. CBS -- Lucas Oil Stadium Unity

    Turner Sports and CBS Sports’ exclusive coverage of the 2021 NCAA® Division I Men’s Basketball Championship will continue with the Final Four® National Semifinals on Saturday, April 3 on CBS – starting with Houston against Baylor tipping off at 5:14 p.m. ET. UCLA against Gonzaga will follow at 8:34 p.m. Jim Nantz, Grant Hill and Bill Raftery will call the games with reporter Tracy Wolfson for the sixth consecutive tournament. Gene Steratore will serve as rules analyst for his second Final Four.

    Saturday’s live, on-site pregame coverage on CBS will begin with At the Final Four presented by Nissan at 2 p.m., followed by The Final Four Show from 3-5 p.m., in Indianapolis.
    Four teams west of the Mississippi. Few, Drew, Sampson, Cronin. Who will win?

  2. #2
    What's the largest margin of victory in a Final Four game? Just curious, no reason.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Wander View Post
    What's the largest margin of victory in a Final Four game? Just curious, no reason.
    Villanova destroyed Oklahoma by 44 points in 2016...

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    San Francisco
    Quote Originally Posted by Wander View Post
    What's the largest margin of victory in a Final Four game? Just curious, no reason.
    30 points in 1990 championship game?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Correct side of the Durham/CH border
    Gonzaga’s path to the final would be against a 16, 8, 5, 6 and 11 seed. They haven’t been tested yet. Maybe UCLA puts up an actual fight. But assuming the Bruins cave like all others before them, it will be interesting to see what happens when the zags play a top seed that’s actually been tested.
    “Coach said no 3s.” - Zion on The Block

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Rosenrosen View Post
    Gonzaga’s path to the final would be against a 16, 8, 5, 6 and 11 seed. They haven’t been tested yet. Maybe UCLA puts up an actual fight. But assuming the Bruins cave like all others before them, it will be interesting to see what happens when the zags play a top seed that’s actually been tested.
    i mean, they have an 11 point win over iowa, a 23 point win over virginia, and now a 19 point win over USC. at some point trying to poo-poo their victories begins sounding like a no-true-scotsman argument.

    If your argument is that there are only a couple ACTUALLY good teams, and they haven't played one yet, sure, but you can make that case for baylor and houston easily as well, and heck, if you want to discount their earlier win over iowa, might as well discount UCLAs win over michigan too and say that nobody has played anybody yet.

    the seeding was a crapshoot this year (more so than normal), so dismissing a team's quality based on either A) a few tournament games or worse, B) the SEED of those teams in the face of some terrible mis-seedings, is not a great argument.
    basketball is back, baby!

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Rosenrosen View Post
    Gonzaga’s path to the final would be against a 16, 8, 5, 6 and 11 seed. They haven’t been tested yet. Maybe UCLA puts up an actual fight. But assuming the Bruins cave like all others before them, it will be interesting to see what happens when the zags play a top seed that’s actually been tested.
    Does remind me of the UNLV paths in 1991 and 1992 a bit. Very weak conference schedule, played a few strong teams in NCAA (seem to recall them beating Arkansas) and then blowing through the Final Four each year 😏.

  8. #8
    First time ever no final four teams east of the Mississippi River ...

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Sea Island, GA
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    i mean, they have an 11 point win over iowa, a 23 point win over virginia, and now a 19 point win over USC. at some point trying to poo-poo their victories begins sounding like a no-true-scotsman argument.

    If your argument is that there are only a couple ACTUALLY good teams, and they haven't played one yet, sure, but you can make that case for baylor and houston easily as well, and heck, if you want to discount their earlier win over iowa, might as well discount UCLAs win over michigan too and say that nobody has played anybody yet.

    the seeding was a crapshoot this year (more so than normal), so dismissing a team's quality based on either A) a few tournament games or worse, B) the SEED of those teams in the face of some terrible mis-seedings, is not a great argument.
    I might suggest that none of the teams, except maybe Gonzaga, are very good. At least it seems like none of them except Gonzaga can shoot. Maybe that has to do with fewer games played or more disruption in practice and game schedules. But after the first rounds, these games have been a disappointment to me. And it isn’t just good defense.

    And yes, the seeding has been a crapshoot. There was no way to tell which teams had developed over the season. Conference schedules were uneven, so they didn’t mean much either. I would love to see one of the remaining teams at least give Gonzaga a game, so we can see if they are actually good. So far they have essentially been having light practices...just working on their plays.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Carolina Beach
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Rosenrosen View Post
    Gonzaga’s path to the final would be against a 16, 8, 5, 6 and 11 seed. They haven’t been tested yet. Maybe UCLA puts up an actual fight. But assuming the Bruins cave like all others before them, it will be interesting to see what happens when the zags play a top seed that’s actually been tested.
    Well if UCLA and their free throw defense holds up. I Heard Bilas last night say that in their last two games the opposition shot 17-36 from the line.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Oregon
    Quote Originally Posted by Wander View Post
    What's the largest margin of victory in a Final Four game? Just curious, no reason.
    Not a record for final margin, but the most memorable stumble out of the gate has to be Kansas 40, UNC 12 in 2008.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    i mean, they have an 11 point win over iowa, a 23 point win over virginia, and now a 19 point win over USC. at some point trying to poo-poo their victories begins sounding like a no-true-scotsman argument.

    If your argument is that there are only a couple ACTUALLY good teams, and they haven't played one yet, sure, but you can make that case for baylor and houston easily as well, and heck, if you want to discount their earlier win over iowa, might as well discount UCLAs win over michigan too and say that nobody has played anybody yet.

    the seeding was a crapshoot this year (more so than normal), so dismissing a team's quality based on either A) a few tournament games or worse, B) the SEED of those teams in the face of some terrible mis-seedings, is not a great argument.
    Super-impressive performances, but in a weak conference and now against a favorable draw in the NCAA's. We'll see...
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  13. #13
    So glad Michigan lost. Last thing I needed was yet another Fab 5 retrospective.

  14. #14
    Gonzaga has a plethora of offensive weapons, and they are going to get 80-85 points on anyone in this year's tournament. They're also going to play pretty solid defense, and they have subs if they happen to get a guy in foul trouble. The name of their game is: if you can score 80-85+ points on a deep, solid defense-- you win. If your offense can't put up at least 80, you really don't have a chance. They have greatly benefited from the weakest D1 basketball field I've seen in a long time, but they are still pretty dang good! We'll see if Baylor can put any game pressure on them late in the second half of the championship game.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by dukebluesincebirth View Post
    Gonzaga has a plethora of offensive weapons, and they are going to get 80-85 points on anyone in this year's tournament. They're also going to play pretty solid defense, and they have subs if they happen to get a guy in foul trouble. The name of their game is: if you can score 80-85+ points on a deep, solid defense-- you win. If your offense can't put up at least 80, you really don't have a chance. They have greatly benefited from the weakest D1 basketball field I've seen in a long time, but they are still pretty dang good! We'll see if Baylor can put any game pressure on them late in the second half of the championship game.
    Yeah. This is a good post.

    You can be a phenomenal team and have an easy path to the Final Four/National Championship. The latter being true doesn't mean the former isn't true. Just means either a) the committee screwed up the seeding or b) high seeded teams lost games they shouldn't have.

    I mean, is there anyone here who doesn't believe Gonzaga is, by far, the best team in the country? Their record, advanced metrics, etc... what more do they have to prove to you to be considered 'elite' this year?
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    Yeah. This is a good post.

    You can be a phenomenal team and have an easy path to the Final Four/National Championship. The latter being true doesn't mean the former isn't true. Just means either a) the committee screwed up the seeding or b) high seeded teams lost games they shouldn't have.

    I mean, is there anyone here who doesn't believe Gonzaga is, by far, the best team in the country? Their record, advanced metrics, etc... what more do they have to prove to you to be considered 'elite' this year?
    There are several folks on here (and in my IRL encounters) who think Gonzaga is at the very least untested, and at worst a fraud.

    I'm not certain those people have watched them play. They are on a different level than other teams this year. You can claim this is a down year for many bigger conferences and programs, but someone still has to be "the best." And watching how Gonzaga shoots, plays cohesive defense, and moves the ball, combined with the top tier talent they have accumulated... I don't see that they wouldn't be a top level contender in most other seasons as well.

    I think part of the negativity towards the Zags is the possibility that they run the table and are then elevated to the tier with the "best of the best all time." And I would agree that I'm not certain they would belong on that short list.

    But their team is very good. Baylor isn't too far behind. If they meet up next week, it could be an epic and enjoyable game.

  17. #17
    I mean, Gonzaga is a full EIGHT points ahead of #2 in AdjEM according to Kenpom. (+38.82 for Gonzaga vs. +30.73 for Baylor). Has there EVER been that large of a spread between #1 and #2?! I recognize it's relative to the strength of the competition in a given year, and I agree it's a "down year" across the NCAA, but clearly Gonzaga has been VERY elite FOR THIS YEAR. For the record, Baylor is a mere 0.57 ahead of #3 Houston right now. Comparing across years is tricky, and yeah, I'd think '99 Duke, as an example, would definitely win, but the landscape has changed since then...

    Edit: I checked back to 2002 and found the below to be the "largest spreads" between #1 and #2 (post-NCAA tournament, of course):

    2002: Duke +4 over Cincy
    2004: Duke +4 over UConn... (harumph!)
    2008: Kansas +4 over Memphis
    2011: Ohio St +5 over Duke (harumph again!)
    2015: Kentucky +3 over Wiscy (Duke #3 another 1 behind Wiscy)
    2018: Villanova +4 over UVa
    2020: Kansas +3 over Gonzaga (I seem to have forgotten Kansas' quality season last year...)

    So, somehow Ohio St 2011 is the closest to the largest gap although they did NOT have the highest AdjEM over the period admittedly. But still, that gap in 2011 is not that close to the dominance of the Zags according to the AdjEm measure (of course, still two games to impact that figure).

    Kentucky 2015 at +36.91 is the highest over this period (besides the current year Zags of course), but Wisconsin and Duke that year were also very quality.
    Last edited by Bluedog; 03-31-2021 at 10:53 AM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Rosenrosen View Post
    Gonzaga’s path to the final would be against a 16, 8, 5, 6 and 11 seed. They haven’t been tested yet. Maybe UCLA puts up an actual fight. But assuming the Bruins cave like all others before them, it will be interesting to see what happens when the zags play a top seed that’s actually been tested.
    Gonzaga has proven they are elite and are hands down, the team to beat in the final four. But after watching UCLA, believe me, they won’t cave. I really think they will slow the Zags down and make them play a slower pace. I’m not saying that UCLA will beat them, and Gonzaga is a great team, but I wouldn’t sell the Bruins short. They earned the right to be here.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    Yeah. This is a good post.

    You can be a phenomenal team and have an easy path to the Final Four/National Championship. The latter being true doesn't mean the former isn't true. Just means either a) the committee screwed up the seeding or b) high seeded teams lost games they shouldn't have.

    I mean, is there anyone here who doesn't believe Gonzaga is, by far, the best team in the country? Their record, advanced metrics, etc... what more do they have to prove to you to be considered 'elite' this year?
    I'm not convinced they're the best team in the country. Weak schedule being the most important reason.
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by Music man55 View Post
    Gonzaga has proven they are elite and are hands down, the team to beat in the final four. But after watching UCLA, believe me, they won’t cave. I really think they will slow the Zags down and make them play a slower pace. I’m not saying that UCLA will beat them, and Gonzaga is a great team, but I wouldn’t sell the Bruins short. They earned the right to be here.
    Not even virginia could keep the tempo below the national average, so while I'm sure UCLA will probably keep gonzaga below their OWN average, i'm highly skeptical it will be "slow" in the common sense.

    (not aimed at you)
    In any case, the talk of "not being tested" relative to baylor is 100% gatekeeping BS. Go ahead, count how many top-25 KP wins each team has. There are a lot of unknowns in this tournament due to how the season panned out, we all know this, but trying to make a case that this is more true for gonzaga than any of the other teams in the final four is simply people trying to put down the zags since they don't play in a big-time conference...which you'll note, most of which sucked in the end this year. Not tested relative to other years? Maybe. But if they do go undefeated, what are you going to do? Complain that they beat all comers?
    basketball is back, baby!

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