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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by CameronBornAndBred View Post
    Time to make that T-Shirt money!

    Attachment 12814

    (Truly not picking on you, but totally enjoying a moment to laugh since our top 50 team isn't playing tonight.)
    I enjoyed this shirt a lot but IMO it needs an * that says: "*Per advanced metrics only and have you looked at the Kenpom Luck rating - JUST LOOK AT IT!!!"

    Goldwire leaving is hurting my hope of having nobody on Duke get "knocked back" next season. A 5th year Goldwire at age 22 isn't getting the KB treatment from an opponent like a 18 year old.

  2. #102
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Soothsayer here -- I think the Jordan Goldwire announcement may have a different perspective in a week or so.
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  3. #103
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    Soothsayer here -- I think the Jordan Goldwire announcement may have a different perspective in a week or so.
    Love your optimism. Hope you're right
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    Soothsayer here -- I think the Jordan Goldwire announcement may have a different perspective in a week or so.
    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    Love your optimism. Hope you're right
    Who said it has to be optimism??? The sky could be falling!

  5. #105
    Trevor Keels, come on down. We will know Sunday.

  6. #106
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Oregon
    Quote Originally Posted by Skydog View Post
    According to KenPom we were the 347th most unlucky team out of 357. Their definition of luck is "A measure of the deviation between a team's actual winning % and what one would expect from its game-by-game efficiencies. Essentially a team involved in a lot of close games should not win (or lose) all of them. Those that do will be viewed as lucky (or unlucky)."

    Kenpoms final ranking of 36 is probably about right. We were slightly or somewhat better than tournament teams like Maryland, Syracuse, Rutgers, Florida, Oklahoma, Oregon St, Clemson, Missouri, Utah St, VCU, Drake, Georgetown, Michigan State, and many more NCAA low seeds.

    So yes, we obviously weren't bad for college teams in general but also yes we were unlucky and yes 36th for Duke is pretty bad.

    PS - Thanks to Goldwire! Loved watching him play.
    Unlike Georgetown and Oregon state, we did not have the opportunity to win our conference and get into the tournament.

  7. #107
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by CameronBornAndBred View Post
    That's pretty awesome, and about as high of a compliment one can get from a coach with K's history. Looking forward to watching him again next year, it might be the last one we get.
    Watching Mark's constant improvement and obviously high ceiling, I'm still holding my breath he will be here next year. Mr. Williams is going to be a beast one day, and the NBA guys know it NOW.

    Don't they draft on a player's potential?
    Man, if your Mom made you wear that color when you were a baby, and you're still wearing it, it's time to grow up!

  8. #108
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Greenville, SC
    Quote Originally Posted by killerleft View Post
    Watching Mark's constant improvement and obviously high ceiling, I'm still holding my breath he will be here next year. Mr. Williams is going to be a beast one day, and the NBA guys know it NOW.

    Don't they draft on a player's potential?
    I remember thinking after the season ended that maybe it could have ended one game sooner so the whole world wouldn't see what I was hoping we get from Mark Williams next year.

    I know, I'm just being selfish.

  9. #109
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Chesapeake, VA.
    Quote Originally Posted by Natty_B View Post
    I enjoyed this shirt a lot but IMO it needs an * that says: "*Per advanced metrics only and have you looked at the Kenpom Luck rating - JUST LOOK AT IT!!!"

    Goldwire leaving is hurting my hope of having nobody on Duke get "knocked back" next season. A 5th year Goldwire at age 22 isn't getting the KB treatment from an opponent like a 18 year old.
    The KB luck rating stuff needs to be on the back of the shirt. Asterisk on the front that leads to an explanation on the back, like the "I said 'NO' to Dean" shirt.
    "We are not provided with wisdom, we must discover it for ourselves, after a journey through the wilderness which no one else can take for us, an effort which no one can spare us, for our wisdom is the point of view from which we come at last to regard the world." --M. Proust

  10. #110
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by camion View Post
    I remember thinking after the season ended that maybe it could have ended one game sooner so the whole world wouldn't see what I was hoping we get from Mark Williams next year.

    I know, I'm just being selfish.
    Is Mark Williams all that high on projected draft boards? He's great defensively in the post, and he got better with his footwork in defending on the perimeter against smaller, more agile players, but he's still not someone you really want iso-ed on NBA-calibre guards. He's also still pretty limited from the NBA perspective on the offensive end. He hit a couple mid-range jumpers, but he hasn't attempted a shot from three as a collegiate, and his free-throw shooting hasn't shown that this is likely to grow into even adequacy. He is still skinny, and while he's shown flashes, he hasn't reliably proven he can beat people in the low block if they are decent defenders anywhere near his size.

    Don't get me wrong: He's going to be a beast at the college level for sure. But I'm not sure he's shown enough NBA-level skills to get the scouts salivating over him quite yet. I'm sure people are looking, but at this point, I think it's more likely a matter of putting him on the watch list, rather than on the we-need-to-take-a-flyer-on-this-guy-right-now list.

    But I ain't no pro scout, so that's just my inexpert eye test talking.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Phredd3 View Post
    Is Mark Williams all that high on projected draft boards? He's great defensively in the post, and he got better with his footwork in defending on the perimeter against smaller, more agile players, but he's still not someone you really want iso-ed on NBA-calibre guards. He's also still pretty limited from the NBA perspective on the offensive end. He hit a couple mid-range jumpers, but he hasn't attempted a shot from three as a collegiate, and his free-throw shooting hasn't shown that this is likely to grow into even adequacy. He is still skinny, and while he's shown flashes, he hasn't reliably proven he can beat people in the low block if they are decent defenders anywhere near his size.

    Don't get me wrong: He's going to be a beast at the college level for sure. But I'm not sure he's shown enough NBA-level skills to get the scouts salivating over him quite yet. I'm sure people are looking, but at this point, I think it's more likely a matter of putting him on the watch list, rather than on the we-need-to-take-a-flyer-on-this-guy-right-now list.

    But I ain't no pro scout, so that's just my inexpert eye test talking.
    I’m holding my breath as well, praying he doesn’t even think about going in the NBA draft this year. Remember, it’s not necessarily about the skill set these freshman have now, but about that one powerful word - “Potential“. Mark clearly demonstrated he has potential, and often times that’s all it takes for these guys to head into the NBA draft.

    Like you I’m certainly not a pro scout. From my vantage point he absolutely needs at least one more year at Duke. And of course I’m being selfish, because I don’t want to see my favorite team lose such a unique inside presence.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by killerleft View Post
    Watching Mark's constant improvement and obviously high ceiling, I'm still holding my breath he will be here next year. Mr. Williams is going to be a beast one day, and the NBA guys know it NOW.

    Don't they draft on a player's potential?
    I've been thinking lately about Mark Williams and his NBA potential, comparing him to a 2018-19 UCLA freshman named Moses Brown. In his one year of college, Brown had similar per minute production to Mark Williams this season, except Brown played 23 mpg instead of 15 mpg, so his overall numbers were better (and he's a couple inches taller, too). About two-and-a-half weeks ago, Oklahoma City decided they were going for the draft lottery and started resting Al Horford, playing Brown instead. He's been amazing, averaging around 12.5 ppg and 12.5 rpg in 9 games. So maybe NBA scouts will see the next Moses Brown and be interested in Mark Williams.

    Except, after Moses Brown went OAD, he went undrafted. Presumably because while NBA scouts may draft on potential, they want potential in certain, specific things, and a skinny center with limited shooting range doesn't check enough boxes in today's League. There are more Moses Browns than you think, and most of them never get to where the NBA wants them. Brown had to spend a year-and-a-half in the G-league, bouncing around multiple organizations, before he went 18.5/13.9 in the G-League this season and Oklahoma City decided to take a risk on him. He only just yesterday signed his first guaranteed NBA contract.

    Mark will do what he will. But I doubt any NBA gm would risk a first-round choice on him, and his chances of being a second-round selection are around pick'em, probably a little worse.

  13. #113
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hampton, Virginia

    Why, why, why?

    This is my first post in a long time; I am hoping the Collective can help me understand this crack in the Duke B-ball Brotherhood.

    I was shocked when Goldwire announced his plans to transfer. IMHO, this is no minor thing and it boils down to Goldwire being unhappy.

    Some have suggested it is playing time, but his minutes were substantial this last year. Some has suggested it might be the grad school program; I guess it is possible, but I highly doubt that. It takes a lot to leave a team and coaches that you have helped you grow and mature, and something happened that leds Goldwire to believe he'd be happier elsewhere.

    JD King has written that Goldwire's final six schools are Oregon State, Wichita State, Utah, BYU, Texas Tech and Oklahoma. That list includes major programs with no certainty of increased playing time. Goldwire is a sharp and focused young man; he has shown dedication and drive by building his body and his game, so he knows that time is not guaranteed.

    The best guess I can come up with does not really make sense to me: that he is tired of training young guns that are supposed to be better than him. The reason I find it hard to believe is that Goldwire seemed the epitome of Coach K's team focus. It seemed Goldwire found where he could best contribute and performed well when the opportunities came up. I just can't seem him being bitter or Coach K not finding the right salve to keep this key Duke basketball player around.

    It also says a lot that Goldwire has not explained why or even offered a reason (that I have found).

    Any whispers out there? Any young John Feinsteins to uncover the unvarnished truth?

  14. #114
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Dukevin View Post
    This is my first post in a long time; I am hoping the Collective can help me understand this crack in the Duke B-ball Brotherhood.

    I was shocked when Goldwire announced his plans to transfer. IMHO, this is no minor thing and it boils down to Goldwire being unhappy.

    Some have suggested it is playing time, but his minutes were substantial this last year. Some has suggested it might be the grad school program; I guess it is possible, but I highly doubt that. It takes a lot to leave a team and coaches that you have helped you grow and mature, and something happened that leds Goldwire to believe he'd be happier elsewhere.

    JD King has written that Goldwire's final six schools are Oregon State, Wichita State, Utah, BYU, Texas Tech and Oklahoma. That list includes major programs with no certainty of increased playing time. Goldwire is a sharp and focused young man; he has shown dedication and drive by building his body and his game, so he knows that time is not guaranteed.

    The best guess I can come up with does not really make sense to me: that he is tired of training young guns that are supposed to be better than him. The reason I find it hard to believe is that Goldwire seemed the epitome of Coach K's team focus. It seemed Goldwire found where he could best contribute and performed well when the opportunities came up. I just can't seem him being bitter or Coach K not finding the right salve to keep this key Duke basketball player around.

    It also says a lot that Goldwire has not explained why or even offered a reason (that I have found).

    Any whispers out there? Any young John Feinsteins to uncover the unvarnished truth?
    Is it possible you're overthinking this? Maybe he just wanted to try something different. Occam's Razor and all that.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Dukevin View Post
    This is my first post in a long time; I am hoping the Collective can help me understand this crack in the Duke B-ball Brotherhood.

    I was shocked when Goldwire announced his plans to transfer. IMHO, this is no minor thing and it boils down to Goldwire being unhappy.

    Some have suggested it is playing time, but his minutes were substantial this last year. Some has suggested it might be the grad school program; I guess it is possible, but I highly doubt that. It takes a lot to leave a team and coaches that you have helped you grow and mature, and something happened that leds Goldwire to believe he'd be happier elsewhere.

    JD King has written that Goldwire's final six schools are Oregon State, Wichita State, Utah, BYU, Texas Tech and Oklahoma. That list includes major programs with no certainty of increased playing time. Goldwire is a sharp and focused young man; he has shown dedication and drive by building his body and his game, so he knows that time is not guaranteed.

    The best guess I can come up with does not really make sense to me: that he is tired of training young guns that are supposed to be better than him. The reason I find it hard to believe is that Goldwire seemed the epitome of Coach K's team focus. It seemed Goldwire found where he could best contribute and performed well when the opportunities came up. I just can't seem him being bitter or Coach K not finding the right salve to keep this key Duke basketball player around.

    It also says a lot that Goldwire has not explained why or even offered a reason (that I have found).

    Any whispers out there? Any young John Feinsteins to uncover the unvarnished truth?
    I have no inside information, but encourage you to remember that Jordan fulfilled his obligation of four years at Duke. I also remind you that he is a 22(ish) year old young man, and there's no telling what his reasoning is, unless he decides to tell us.

    Maybe he wants a year at s bigger school. Maybe he wants the experience of being a stud on a lesser team. Maybe he feels that four years under K is enough and he wants to see how things work with a different coach.

    Maybe it has zero to do with basketball. Maybe he wants s change of scenery, or regional cuisine. Maybe he had a friend or romantic interest in another state. Perhaps he wants to live in the mountains or learn how to surf.

    Try and remember why you made the decisions you did at that age.

  16. #116
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Seattle
    Most people might not think about it, but playing for Duke is an intense experience and often exhausting emotionally and physically. JGold might just be burned out by four years at Duke, especially since he is a hustle type of player that left everything out on the floor.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Dukevin View Post
    This is my first post in a long time; I am hoping the Collective can help me understand this crack in the Duke B-ball Brotherhood.

    I was shocked when Goldwire announced his plans to transfer. IMHO, this is no minor thing and it boils down to Goldwire being unhappy.

    Some have suggested it is playing time, but his minutes were substantial this last year. Some has suggested it might be the grad school program; I guess it is possible, but I highly doubt that. It takes a lot to leave a team and coaches that you have helped you grow and mature, and something happened that leds Goldwire to believe he'd be happier elsewhere.

    JD King has written that Goldwire's final six schools are Oregon State, Wichita State, Utah, BYU, Texas Tech and Oklahoma. That list includes major programs with no certainty of increased playing time. Goldwire is a sharp and focused young man; he has shown dedication and drive by building his body and his game, so he knows that time is not guaranteed.

    The best guess I can come up with does not really make sense to me: that he is tired of training young guns that are supposed to be better than him. The reason I find it hard to believe is that Goldwire seemed the epitome of Coach K's team focus. It seemed Goldwire found where he could best contribute and performed well when the opportunities came up. I just can't seem him being bitter or Coach K not finding the right salve to keep this key Duke basketball player around.

    It also says a lot that Goldwire has not explained why or even offered a reason (that I have found).

    Any whispers out there? Any young John Feinsteins to uncover the unvarnished truth?
    My guess — all it is — is that it’s not merely a matter, generally, of wanting a change. Nor, my guess, that he’s burned out. Rather, I’d guess he has a plan.

    It’s true that Goldwire played major minutes the last 2 seasons. Surely no one on EK predicted before his frosh year that he’d become such an important contributor. But to everyone’s surprise, presumably including himself, he probably now aspires to make some money playing professionally, somewhere.

    He’d be very unlikely to play, say, 25 minutes next season at Duke, which itself would be fewer minutes than this season. I’d guess he wants a real chance at 30+ minutes, more shots. No reason to think he “resents” being recruited over, nor that he isn’t very happy with his Duke career. He has been a wonderful team player. K has noted more than once that Goldwire is a “very good athlete.”

    So this 5th year gift, combined with his newfound aspiration, makes it logical for him to try to find a spot where his minutes, number of shots, and 3-point % might go up. Yes, he could have been an important contributor to Duke’s NCAAT performance next spring. But he probably wants to increase his chances to show what he thinks he can do, to average double-figures, even to improve on his 3:1 a/to, to turn heads as, say, the #3 option on O, to be a conference DPOY.

  18. #118
    Has JG earned a Duke Degree ?

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Pghdukie View Post
    Has JG earned a Duke Degree ?
    Graduation hasn't occurred yet, but all signs point to Jordan getting his diploma when that occurs.

  20. #120
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, D.C.

    Yep

    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    I have no inside information, but encourage you to remember that Jordan fulfilled his obligation of four years at Duke. I also remind you that he is a 22(ish) year old young man, and there's no telling what his reasoning is, unless he decides to tell us.

    Maybe he wants a year at s bigger school. Maybe he wants the experience of being a stud on a lesser team. Maybe he feels that four years under K is enough and he wants to see how things work with a different coach.

    Maybe it has zero to do with basketball. Maybe he wants s change of scenery, or regional cuisine. Maybe he had a friend or romantic interest in another state. Perhaps he wants to live in the mountains or learn how to surf.

    Try and remember why you made the decisions you did at that age.
    When I graduated from Duke, I went to law school at another university. At age 21, four years in Durham was enough. I expect Jordan just wants to try something different.

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