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  1. #61
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    North Carolina
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-t9AoGyGec&t=196s

    It wasn’t that long ago but this is what JBrake said after the UVA game.

    “making those plays is why you come to Duke”

    I don’t know who advises these kids but if you look at the transfers out of Duke very few of them have got to the NBA. Semi is on maybe. I think their best chance of getting there is to stay at Duke even without a huge amount of minutes.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Furniture View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-t9AoGyGec&t=196s

    It wasn’t that long ago but this is what JBrake said after the UVA game.

    “making those plays is why you come to Duke”

    I don’t know who advises these kids but if you look at the transfers out of Duke very few of them have got to the NBA. Semi is on maybe. I think their best chance of getting there is to stay at Duke even without a huge amount of minutes.
    So sitting the bench at Duke is a better path to the NBA for him than potentially playing big mins somewhere else?

    And if these kids aren’t likely to make it to the NBA either way, wouldn’t they at least like to have significant playing time in college?

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Quote Originally Posted by kshepinthehouse View Post
    So sitting the bench at Duke is a better path to the NBA for him than potentially playing big mins somewhere else?

    And if these kids aren’t likely to make it to the NBA either way, wouldn’t they at least like to have significant playing time in college?
    You raise a relevant point here. Namely, that it stands to reason that a young man who is good enough to have received an offer to play basketball at Duke likely wants to have significant playing time while in college, whether they have pro potential or not.

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Marietta, Georgia
    I'm just waiting for the Joey Baker shoe to drop.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Daddylawman View Post
    I'm just waiting for the Joey Baker shoe to drop.
    Too soon.

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by Furniture View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-t9AoGyGec&t=196s

    It wasn’t that long ago but this is what JBrake said after the UVA game.

    “making those plays is why you come to Duke”

    I don’t know who advises these kids but if you look at the transfers out of Duke very few of them have got to the NBA. Semi is on maybe. I think their best chance of getting there is to stay at Duke even without a huge amount of minutes.
    Truly. And Semi admits he was immature and made a mistake to leave.
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  7. #67
    Sad this is all getting to be so routine. As a fan (for me at least), college basketball is a shell of what it was 25 years ago. And each time we see a young kid transfer, or leave early only to struggle to make an NBA roster for years, amplifies this for me. Hate to say it but it’s true.

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by Daddylawman View Post
    I'm just waiting for the Joey Baker shoe to drop.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    Too soon.
    to soon would be asking about when zion's shoe will drop.
    basketball is back, baby!

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven43 View Post
    You raise a relevant point here. Namely, that it stands to reason that a young man who is good enough to have received an offer to play basketball at Duke likely wants to have significant playing time while in college, whether they have pro potential or not.
    This is, ironically, probably true, and frustratingly so. I'd assumed from the start that Jaemyn was recruited as the type of 3-4 year player that most of us seem to really, really want on the roster, and it was exciting to me to see the possibility of us beginning to sign more players like that. Coleman would be another, and so is Roach. (As was Williams, but he's getting good quick.) But the downside of the brilliant recruiting run of the past decade or so seems (from an outsider's perspective) to be that often kids who matriculate seem to feel that, they're at Duke, which must mean that they're one-and-done material themselves. Jaemyn seems like the sort of player who, even 20 years ago, would have played sparingly his first two seasons before emerging as a junior.

    I've loved watching the extraordinary talent that has come through the program for the past decade. Unfortunately one downside might be that as a result we've created a perception that if you come here, you're on a fast track to the league, which could be making it more difficult that it is for most schools to attract four year players and for them to maintain that perspective. I love Jaemyn as a player, and will follow his career and wish him well wherever that takes him. Wherever that is, I still think he will at the end of the day play college basketball there as a junior, and possibly even as a senior. And I think he will be excellent. And I'll be sad that that excellence isn't happening in a Duke uni.

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by duke96 View Post
    Sad this is all getting to be so routine. As a fan (for me at least), college basketball is a shell of what it was 25 years ago. And each time we see a young kid transfer, or leave early only to struggle to make an NBA roster for years, amplifies this for me. Hate to say it but it’s true.
    You are not wrong, and the NCAA is a big part of the reason for this. Every gets paid in college sports except the key draw of the sport: the players themselves. The coaches, the administration, the media, the NCAA, the massage therapists...everyone gets paid. And while the argument of "well, players are getting a free education" does hold true, it's a little ridiculous that the NCAA gets billions off the tournament, ESPN makes hundreds of millions off the regular season games, and coaches get paid nearly 8 figures while the players get a $50-60K education.

    Everyone got richer over the last 25 years except the players. And now they are fighting back. Good for them. Bad for the NCAA.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  11. #71
    Brake made winning plays for us in the Virginia game, and man, I wanted his shot against GT to drop so bad. I'll miss his enthusiasm on the court.

    This offseason is going to be absolutely wild. With players getting an extra year of eligibility and a free transfer, I expect a lot of teams to lose players. Just look at the guys Wake and Pitt already has in the transfer portal. In some respects, this may work in Duke's favor. The 20-21 season was set up for teams that came in with a lot of roster continuity. The 21-22 season may work out better for programs who can construct a roster on the fly- and a lot of programs are going to have to do that.

    Many of us wish for more 3-4 year guys that blossom into really good players. To me, it's the most rewarding part of fandom. Unfortunately, things aren't the way they used to be. Players like Brakefield could stay the course, develop, and still end up coming off the bench as a Jr/Sr if there is a more talented one-and-done player on the team. I can't fault him for seeking more playing time elsewhere.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    You are not wrong, and the NCAA is a big part of the reason for this. Every gets paid in college sports except the key draw of the sport: the players themselves. The coaches, the administration, the media, the NCAA, the massage therapists...everyone gets paid. And while the argument of "well, players are getting a free education" does hold true, it's a little ridiculous that the NCAA gets billions off the tournament, ESPN makes hundreds of millions off the regular season games, and coaches get paid nearly 8 figures while the players get a $50-60K education.

    Everyone got richer over the last 25 years except the players. And now they are fighting back. Good for them. Bad for the NCAA.
    Let's hold that conversation for the off-season...

    Oh wait.

  13. #73
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    North Carolina
    Quote Originally Posted by kshepinthehouse View Post
    So sitting the bench at Duke is a better path to the NBA for him than potentially playing big mins somewhere else?

    And if these kids aren’t likely to make it to the NBA either way, wouldn’t they at least like to have significant playing time in college?
    He has hardly sat on the bench this year and he is only a freshman. Anyway the answer to your question is yes, and let’s face it even if he gets to the NBA (and I hope he does) he will most probably spend a lot of time on the bench so you could argue that being at Duke, being part of something big and having a role even coming off the bench is good practice for the NBA. Then being on TV three times a week is much better for your NBA chances vs. not at all and presumably he gets more playing time as every year passes. Where are those kids that transferred out from Duke now?

  14. #74
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Maturin View Post
    Brake made winning plays for us in the Virginia game, and man, I wanted his shot against GT to drop so bad. I'll miss his enthusiasm on the court.

    This offseason is going to be absolutely wild. With players getting an extra year of eligibility and a free transfer, I expect a lot of teams to lose players. Just look at the guys Wake and Pitt already has in the transfer portal. In some respects, this may work in Duke's favor. The 20-21 season was set up for teams that came in with a lot of roster continuity. The 21-22 season may work out better for programs who can construct a roster on the fly- and a lot of programs are going to have to do that.

    Many of us wish for more 3-4 year guys that blossom into really good players. To me, it's the most rewarding part of fandom. Unfortunately, things aren't the way they used to be. Players like Brakefield could stay the course, develop, and still end up coming off the bench as a Jr/Sr if there is a more talented one-and-done player on the team. I can't fault him for seeking more playing time elsewhere.
    I'm not sure it will. Duke has a starting 5 next year, assuming Steward and Roach stay and Griffin/Banchero set foot on campus.

    If you are a really good player from a mid-major or a good player from a Power 5 team, why come to Duke knowing you aren't going to start or maybe not even get a lot of minutes? To play ~15 min a game and learn from Coach K? How is that going to help you either a) get to the NBA or b) play lots of minutes? Why not go to a school where you can start and play all the minutes you desire?

    If Duke had a clear hole in their starting lineup, then I agree Duke would and should be active. But they have a pretty great roster next year.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  15. #75
    I am sad to see Jaemyn go. I wish him well in his future endeavors.

    I am a bit puzzled as to his expectations when coming to Duke. Based on the minutes contest, he appeared to play more than most of us were expecting. I'd imagine Coach K and the staff laid out a multi-year development plan for Jaemyn. If anything, he appeared ahead of plan.

    I guess he is another example of how hard it is to thread the needle when it comes to mixing OADs and multi-year guys. I was really looking forward to JR and SR Jaemyn.

  16. #76
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Furniture View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-t9AoGyGec&t=196s

    It wasn’t that long ago but this is what JBrake said after the UVA game.

    “making those plays is why you come to Duke”

    I don’t know who advises these kids but if you look at the transfers out of Duke very few of them have got to the NBA. Semi is on maybe. I think their best chance of getting there is to stay at Duke even without a huge amount of minutes.
    This again? Seriously? Enough, already. It's just sour grapes and we should be better than this.

    Wish the young man luck and move on.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by fgb View Post
    This is, ironically, probably true, and frustratingly so. I'd assumed from the start that Jaemyn was recruited as the type of 3-4 year player that most of us seem to really, really want on the roster, and it was exciting to me to see the possibility of us beginning to sign more players like that. Coleman would be another, and so is Roach. (As was Williams, but he's getting good quick.) But the downside of the brilliant recruiting run of the past decade or so seems (from an outsider's perspective) to be that often kids who matriculate seem to feel that, they're at Duke, which must mean that they're one-and-done material themselves. Jaemyn seems like the sort of player who, even 20 years ago, would have played sparingly his first two seasons before emerging as a junior.
    I don't think your characterization is entirely accurate. Player's in Jaemyn's high school ranking range have been transferring away from Duke for a long time before the OAD era (see, e.g., Ojeleye, Gbinije, Czyz, King, Boateng, Boykin, Thompson, Chappell, Beard, Ast, McCaffrey, Palmer, Jackman).

  18. #78
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    I don't think your characterization is entirely accurate. Player's in Jaemyn's high school ranking range have been transferring away from Duke for a long time before the OAD era (see, e.g., Ojeleye, Gbinije, Czyz, King, Boateng, Boykin, Thompson, Chappell, Beard, Ast, McCaffrey, Palmer, Jackman).
    While this may be the case, I'd be shocked if there weren't more transfers per year during the OAD period than before the OAD period at Duke.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    You are not wrong, and the NCAA is a big part of the reason for this. Every gets paid in college sports except the key draw of the sport: the players themselves. The coaches, the administration, the media, the NCAA, the massage therapists...everyone gets paid. And while the argument of "well, players are getting a free education" does hold true, it's a little ridiculous that the NCAA gets billions off the tournament, ESPN makes hundreds of millions off the regular season games, and coaches get paid nearly 8 figures while the players get a $50-60K education.

    Everyone got richer over the last 25 years except the players. And now they are fighting back. Good for them. Bad for the NCAA.
    I don't want to debate the "pay the players" topic. But, I will say that the benefits given to the players today vs. 25 years ago are not close to equivalent according to Coach K. He has stated in the recent past that what the players get now is a "huge difference" from what even occurred a bit earlier. This includes certainly access to better facilities, chefs, dorms, charter flights, five star hotels, etc. and also additional stipends to spend however they want. Again, not trying to get into the discussion of "if that's enough" but simply pointing out that to those in the know, the benefits/value given to basketball players in the NCAA in 2020 is much different apparently than basketball players in 1995. Unless you don't believe Coach K.

    Of course, I understand the argument that the increase has not been equivalent to the increase of the other groups you mention. But just providing a perspective that there has been some change over the years in this regard that does apparently afford players more benefits than they used to have.

  20. #80
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by fgb View Post
    This is, ironically, probably true, and frustratingly so. I'd assumed from the start that Jaemyn was recruited as the type of 3-4 year player that most of us seem to really, really want on the roster, and it was exciting to me to see the possibility of us beginning to sign more players like that. Coleman would be another, and so is Roach. (As was Williams, but he's getting good quick.) But the downside of the brilliant recruiting run of the past decade or so seems (from an outsider's perspective) to be that often kids who matriculate seem to feel that, they're at Duke, which must mean that they're one-and-done material themselves. Jaemyn seems like the sort of player who, even 20 years ago, would have played sparingly his first two seasons before emerging as a junior.
    We've never really NOT recruited that type of player though.

    As you note, Brakefield was one of 5 players in the "3-4 year" mold that we brought in this past year: Roach, Steward, Williams, Brakefield, Coleman

    In the 2019 class, we brought in Moore and Stanley.

    2018: Jones and Baker. This was really the only year that we deviated, as Baker was really supposed to be in the next class but reclassified.
    2017: O'Connell, Tucker, and Goldwire.
    2016: DeLaurier and White.
    2015: Jeter, Thornton, Kennard, and Vrankovic.
    2014: Jones, Winslow, and Allen.
    2013: Matt Jones and Semi Ojeleye.
    2012: Sulaimon and Jefferson.
    2011: Cook, Gbinije, Murphy, and Plumlee.
    2010: Hairston, Thornton, and Dawkins.

    We've more or less never NOT recruited in the multi-year recruit ranks. It's just that those guys have been pretty hit or miss with Duke, both in terms of developing and in terms of staying.

    And as Kedsy notes, the "staying" problem isn't limited to the one-and-done era for Duke. It's just a reality of recruiting really good players year in and year out. Sometimes the guys who aren't as good decide to go elsewhere where they can play.

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