The NCAA Tournament & Covid

[CDu]

Right - I wasn't suggesting teams got exposed at the conference tournaments -- really just the timing issue of it popping now, when there's a real chance that teams like Virginia or Kansas may be booted from the NCAA Tournament b/c there isn't enough time to quarantine/meet testing protocols.

Right, but what I was saying was that if we had an extra week between the conference tourneys and the NCAAs (or just no conference tourneys), there is no guarantee that teams would be in better shape. If the UVa and Duke positives happened irrespective of the ACC Tournament, then "no ACCs" wouldn't have changed the outcome for them.

I have to say, though, that I'm more sensitive to the notion that it's not obvious they needed to delay the entire season, given that a number of other sports/leagues have been able to play through things and manage it (NFL, NBA, college football, etc.)

The other sports have a bit of an advantage though:
- College football is outdoors, plays fewer games (only one per week), and was mostly done before things really escalated in terms of cases this winter. And, honestly, they didn't exactly do all that well with it anyway, as tons of teams had cases.
- NFL is also outdoors. They are really the only success story, and they had to finagle the schedule a fair amount due to cases.
- NBA was played in the summer, at the nadir of the case load. And they bubbled the end of the season and the playoffs.

Was it possible that it could be pulled off? Maybe. But it seems so unnecessary to have done it this way.

[CDu]

I'd thought about that, but it really isn't true. If they delayed the NCAA tournament a week, the only potential conflict with the Masters would have been on Sat. April 10, with the Final 4 butting up against round 3 of the Masters. However, there would really have only been an hour or two of conflict, and the Masters already showed they are willing to work with CBS by having an early start time to the final round in November to avoid a conflict with NFL games.

I think you meant to quote a different post? Mine was talking about a tourney entirely in May, well after the Master's.

But yeah, waiting a week would mean only an hour at most of overlap, as only the early game on Saturday would encroach at all on the Master's. And a 7:10pm start to game 1 would be clear of typical Master's scheduling anyway.

[SavDukeGrad]

I'd thought about that, but it really isn't true. If they delayed the NCAA tournament a week, the only potential conflict with the Masters would have been on Sat. April 10, with the Final 4 butting up against round 3 of the Masters. However, there would really have only been an hour or two of conflict, and the Masters already showed they are willing to work with CBS by having an early start time to the final round in November to avoid a conflict with NFL games.

FTR, in the Fall, the days were shorter and the Maters had players going off 1 and 10 to complete the rounds before dark. So it kind of worked. This spring, they are going back to the traditional way of doing things - players only going off 1, so they will be playing much later in the day.

The Masters and the NCAA tournament are 2 of CBS’ marquee events. And Jim Nantz anchors the coverage for both. Not saying I agree with it, but I just can’t see them wanting to cover both the same weekend.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

FTR, in the Fall, the days were shorter and the Maters had players going off 1 and 10 to complete the rounds before dark. So it kind of worked. This spring, they are going back to the traditional way of doing things - players only going off 1, so they will be playing much later in the day.

The Masters and the NCAA tournament are 2 of CBS’ marquee events. And Jim Nantz anchors the coverage for both. Not saying I agree with it, but I just can’t see them wanting to cover both the same weekend.

Not to mention, if you push to May you are suddenly playing NCAA tournament games against NBA games.

If anything, I think playing on a more condensed schedule would have made sense. Why wait five days between rounds if everyone is in the same city? Knock out all seven rounds over two weeks.

[CDu]

FTR, in the Fall, the days were shorter and the Maters had players going off 1 and 10 to complete the rounds before dark. So it kind of worked. This spring, they are going back to the traditional way of doing things - players only going off 1, so they will be playing much later in the day.

The Masters and the NCAA tournament are 2 of CBS’ marquee events. And Jim Nantz anchors the coverage for both. Not saying I agree with it, but I just can’t see them wanting to cover both the same weekend.

Typical Masters coverage ends by 7, no? They could start game 1 at 7:10.

But regardless, starting the season later was posited, and a May tourney would not conflict at all.

[CDu]

Not to mention, if you push to May you are suddenly playing NCAA tournament games against NBA games.

If anything, I think playing on a more condensed schedule would have made sense. Why wait five days between rounds if everyone is in the same city? Knock out all seven rounds over two weeks.

From CBS’ perspective, that might be a feature rather than a big, as they don’t have NBA Playoff coverage.

Also, I would guess the tourney wins out over early-round NBA games.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

From CBS’ perspective, that might be a feature rather than a big, as they don’t have NBA Playoff coverage.

Also, I would guess the tourney wins out over early-round NBA games.

It does for most on this board, obviously. But I suspect you may get a different read from the casual basketball fan. I doubt they have interest in losing a chunk of their viewers to LeBron et al.

[scottdude8]

I just had a crazy thought, considering the NCAA's rule that a team must have 5 healthy players to participate in the tourney: we could see a situation where a traditional early-round blowout becomes interesting if a top-tier team is down to mostly walk ons. Kansas and Virginia are both potential 3/4 seeds... how bizarre would a game be where their deep bench/walk ons have to somehow win a game against a one-big league champ's scholarship players to buy time for the rest of the team to get healthy? It wouldn't shock me if teams start separately quarantining a group of 5 players for this potentiality, like NFL teams were quarantining a backup QB following the Broncos disaster this year.

This March is going to be ESPECIALLY mad.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I just had a crazy thought, considering the NCAA's rule that a team must have 5 healthy players to participate in the tourney: we could see a situation where a traditional early-round blowout becomes interesting if a top-tier team is down to mostly walk ons. Kansas and Virginia are both potential 3/4 seeds... how bizarre would a game be where their deep bench/walk ons have to somehow win a game against a one-big league champ's scholarship players to buy time for the rest of the team to get healthy? It wouldn't shock me if teams start separately quarantining a group of 5 players for this potentiality, like NFL teams were quarantining a backup QB following the Broncos disaster this year.

This March is going to be ESPECIALLY mad.

I'm still quite confused by how contact tracing can leave part of a team eligible, given how players congregate on busses, in locker rooms, in huddles, etc. Doesn't pass the straight face test to me at all.

[SavDukeGrad]

Typical Masters coverage ends by 7, no? They could start game 1 at 7:10.

But regardless, starting the season later was posited, and a May tourney would not conflict at all.

CDu, I totally agree with you that a March - May season would have been ideal. I thought it was a great idea when both Coach K and Rick Pitino advocated for it. And I was actually surprised that more coaches didn’t agree and chime in. And now our worst fears have been realized.

The only reason I mentioned the Masters was to explain why I thought CBS wouldn’t want to push the tournament back a week and hold the Final Four the same weekend as the Masters.

[Nugget]

From CBS’ perspective, that might be a feature rather than a big, as they don’t have NBA Playoff coverage.

Also, I would guess the tourney wins out over early-round NBA games.

And, just to add to the point that late-April/May Madness would have been very feasible, the NBA delayed its regular season, so the playoffs don't start until May 18. There would have been plenty of time to have a full-attention NCAA Tournament after the Masters and before the NBA playoffs.

[scottdude8]

I'm still quite confused by how contact tracing can leave part of a team eligible, given how players congregate on busses, in locker rooms, in huddles, etc. Doesn't pass the straight face test to me at all.

I agree wholeheartedly. Yet, somehow, Purdue was able to play Michigan earlier this season a day (I believe) after a starter tested positive because of "sufficient social distancing", yet our season is done because of one test.

Some teams/programs/schools are obviously taking this more seriously than others. I'd rather root for a school that cares about its kids (and others!) like ours does.

[throatybeard]

I just had a crazy thought, considering the NCAA's rule that a team must have 5 healthy players to participate in the tourney: we could see a situation where a traditional early-round blowout becomes interesting if a top-tier team is down to mostly walk ons. Kansas and Virginia are both potential 3/4 seeds... how bizarre would a game be where their deep bench/walk ons have to somehow win a game against a one-big league champ's scholarship players to buy time for the rest of the team to get healthy? It wouldn't shock me if teams start separately quarantining a group of 5 players for this potentiality, like NFL teams were quarantining a backup QB following the Broncos disaster this year.

This March is going to be ESPECIALLY mad.

And Virginia didn't even need that scenario in order to lose to 16) UMBC.

Badumbumpching

[throatybeard]

re: The Masters, it's only four days really. Well, anymore the par 3 contest is televised too. But a lot of this isn't even on CBS, it's on the cable partners.

If you can move the NCAAT later you can schedule one of its breaks around four days of golf.

[uh_no]

re: The Masters, it's only four days really. Well, anymore the par 3 contest is televised too. But a lot of this isn't even on CBS, it's on the cable partners.

If you can move the NCAAT later you can schedule one of its breaks around four days of golf.

CBS is not going to move weekend games to the not-weekend.

[CDu]

CBS is not going to move weekend games to the not-weekend.

True. But it doesn’t really matter, as (a) they could still play the semifinal without conflict on Saturday night, and (b) they could play the entire tournament AFTER the Master’s and still before the NBA Playoffs.

[uh_no]

True. But it doesn’t really matter, as (a) they could still play the semifinal without conflict on Saturday night, and (b) they could play the entire tournament AFTER the Master’s and still before the NBA Playoffs.

b is certainly the most viable. A doesn't really help. you're still cannibalizing your viewership to some degree. It's hard to convince normal people to watch that much sports in one day.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

b is certainly the most viable. A doesn't really help. you're still cannibalizing your viewership to some degree. It's hard to convince normal people to watch that much sports in one day.

Not many normal people reading this board.

I'm quite used to a good 12-13 hour stretch on the first few NCAA days. I've scheduled entire springs around having those days off in the past.

[throatybeard]

b is certainly the most viable. A doesn't really help. you're still cannibalizing your viewership to some degree. It's hard to convince normal people to watch that much sports in one day.

As well they shouldn't.

[kako]

From CBS’ perspective, that might be a feature rather than a big, as they don’t have NBA Playoff coverage.

Also, I would guess the tourney wins out over early-round NBA games.

The tourney overlaps NBA (and NHL) games anyway now. They could have figured this out, but the NCAA/CBS money machine wanted to be fed on time, COVID be damned! Seems to me that this was extremely short-sighted. When the vax story started jelling, they could have pushed things out more to take advantage. Even give teams an extra week or two to make up for postponed games (ESPN and the regional networks would have loved that). A tourney starting in April would have been fine. No overlap with the Masters if it started after that. Some overlap with early season MLB, but again that's not CBS' concern. And the sites would have had more butts in seats, too, so more ticket sales and more concessions (which means more jobs), helping the local economies. The money would have come, and it would have been more money. But no, they wanted it now.

9F