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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    So, as for Dakich, he should be fired for being an idiot. At the end of the UVA-Lou game he said Trey Murphy is one of the two most important transfers in the country (along with some dude at Michigan).

    Murphy is quite literally standing next to Sam Hauser as Dakich makes this statement.

    Hes too stupid for words.
    I thought the same thing! I thought surely he is confusing Murphy and Hauser.

  2. #122
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Athens, GA
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    Not sure what it says about my particular upbringing, but I've definitely heard the phrase "off the plantation" used in some sort of pop culture (books, movies - not sure to be honest) along the same lines as "going AWOL" to mean either literally or figuratively "not in play." So, someone who used to be a reliable piece of the puzzle who has opted out of the situation.

    Regardless, I'm sure I've never used that phrase myself. And if it occured to me to use it at all, my brain would probably send me some pretty intense signals to reexamine my word choice.

    I know we've had threads in the past regarding coded language, and it has certainly been in the collective conscience more the last few years. Some offensive words come from unfamiliar origins that may or may not set off one's own language filter. But again, I'm pretty sure that any "plantation" analogies should be rethought before they leave one's mouth.
    Agree totally.
    And any residential developments including the name "plantation"(of which there are many, usually affluent)should strongly consider a change.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...26f_story.html
    "Play and practice like you are trying to make the team." --Coach K

  3. #123
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Skinker-DeBaliviere, Saint Louis
    Quote Originally Posted by Spanarkel View Post
    Agree totally.
    And any residential developments including the name "plantation"(of which there are many, usually affluent)should strongly consider a change.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...26f_story.html
    Weirdly, in Mississippi, a number of those are no longer upscale.

    They were so considered when they were built during the heyday of segregation academy establishment, but that was also when design standards for residential construction started tanking, so now they look like the 1960s weathered ranches in sidewalkless neighborhoods that they are. Unlike prewar masonry, they weren't really supposed to have a design life of more than about 50y (although that's better than the design life of perhaps only 30y that you've been seeing in the past few decades), and, the class of people that buy expensive housing in exurbs have moved fully to the McMansion aesthetic. Which will also look not only awful, but awful *and* old in another 20y. The problem with the chief value of something being that it's new is that nothing under the sun stays new.

    So these were new upper middle class homes at the beginning of the planned obsolescence era. They're a little bit more built-to-last than the snouthouses and McMansions of 1990-to-housing bust, and so people still buy them and rehab as my parents' generation dies. But neither are they reflective of the supposed prestige of the "plantation" label, which of course was just marketing. One generation of white flighters' "plantation" is their grandchildren's generation's mess of grubby ranches that's not near anything except more ranches.

  4. #124
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO

    Plantation?

    A. The word "plantation" was never used in any derogatory sense when I was a kid in SC. I am trying to think if "staying on your plantation" was ever used as a self-deprecating term like, "staying in your lane." But I don't remember that.

    B. Throughout the tropics and many other places large farming operations are plantations -- such as pineapple, coffee, banana and probably more. I think the common agricultural use is to connote a large farm, but I admit that the terms doesn't ever seemed to be used in the U.S. outside the South.

    C. Here's an odd use. I had a bird tour leader in Peru who had earned a master's degree at the Nicholas School at Duke. He said, in one class he asked the prof, "Why do you call it the Duke Forest, when it is really a 'plantation?'" His meaning was that a forest was a natural occurrence with wide range of trees, shrubs and wildlife, whereas the Duke Forest was intentionally planted with just a couple of species of trees. And, of course, David was an expert on triple-canopy tropical forests in the tropical lowlands of South America with every imaginable variety of plant and animal. When it came time for the final exam in this course, there was one question only: "Is the Duke Forest a forest or a plantation?" I think he got a good grade.

    Anyway, Greg McDermott has been an outspoken coach for a long time. And I am sure the players were truly offended, but the derogatory use -- which I was not previously familiar with -- is not the main use of the term.
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  5. #125
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    St. Louis
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    A. The word "plantation" was never used in any derogatory sense when I was a kid in SC. I am trying to think if "staying on your plantation" was ever used as a self-deprecating term like, "staying in your lane." But I don't remember that.

    B. Throughout the tropics and many other places large farming operations are plantations -- such as pineapple, coffee, banana and probably more. I think the common agricultural use is to connote a large farm, but I admit that the terms doesn't ever seemed to be used in the U.S. outside the South.

    C. Here's an odd use. I had a bird tour leader in Peru who had earned a master's degree at the Nicholas School at Duke. He said, in one class he asked the prof, "Why do you call it the Duke Forest, when it is really a 'plantation?'" His meaning was that a forest was a natural occurrence with wide range of trees, shrubs and wildlife, whereas the Duke Forest was intentionally planted with just a couple of species of trees. And, of course, David was an expert on triple-canopy tropical forests in the tropical lowlands of South America with every imaginable variety of plant and animal. When it came time for the final exam in this course, there was one question only: "Is the Duke Forest a forest or a plantation?" I think he got a good grade.

    Anyway, Greg McDermott has been an outspoken coach for a long time. And I am sure the players were truly offended, but the derogatory use -- which I was not previously familiar with -- is not the main use of the term.
    I was listening to an old Louis Armstrong record yesterday which included his rendition of "Mame." The lyrics as written for the Broadway musical go like this:

    You coax the blues right out of the horn, Mame
    You charm the husk right off of the corn, Mame
    You've got the banjos strummin' and plunkin' out a tune to beat the band
    The whole plantation's hummin' since you brought Dixie back to Dixieland.
    You make our cotton easy to pick, Mame
    You give my old mint julep a kick, Mame
    You make the old magnolia tree blossom at the mention of your name.
    You've made us feel alive again, you've given us the drive again
    to make the South revive again, Mame.
    You brought the cakewalk back into style, Mame
    You make the weeping willow tree smile, Mame
    Your skin is Dixie satin, there's rebel in your manner and your speech
    You may be from Manhattan, but Georgia never had a sweeter peach.
    You make our blackeyed peas and our grits, Mame
    Seem like the bill of fare at the Ritz, Mame
    You came, you saw, you conquered and absolutely nothing is the same.
    Your special fascination'll prove to be inspirational, we think you're just sensational,
    Mame...Mame...Mame!

    The Broadway musical is from circa 1966. My recording is also many decades old. As Satchmo sings it, he removes not only the reference to picking cotton, but also the reference to the plantation; I think he just sings, "You've got the whole place hummin" etc. instead of "The whole plantation's hummin".

    Also, I was intrigued by Sage's point C above, using plantation in the sense of having been planted as opposed to having been formed naturally.

    Finally, I had an aunt who lived in Plantation, Florida (near Ft. Lauderdale). I wonder if they'll ever change that.

  6. #126
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    A. The word "plantation" was never used in any derogatory sense when I was a kid in SC. I am trying to think if "staying on your plantation" was ever used as a self-deprecating term like, "staying in your lane." But I don't remember that.

    B. Throughout the tropics and many other places large farming operations are plantations -- such as pineapple, coffee, banana and probably more. I think the common agricultural use is to connote a large farm, but I admit that the terms doesn't ever seemed to be used in the U.S. outside the South.

    C. Here's an odd use. I had a bird tour leader in Peru who had earned a master's degree at the Nicholas School at Duke. He said, in one class he asked the prof, "Why do you call it the Duke Forest, when it is really a 'plantation?'" His meaning was that a forest was a natural occurrence with wide range of trees, shrubs and wildlife, whereas the Duke Forest was intentionally planted with just a couple of species of trees. And, of course, David was an expert on triple-canopy tropical forests in the tropical lowlands of South America with every imaginable variety of plant and animal. When it came time for the final exam in this course, there was one question only: "Is the Duke Forest a forest or a plantation?" I think he got a good grade.

    Anyway, Greg McDermott has been an outspoken coach for a long time. And I am sure the players were truly offended, but the derogatory use -- which I was not previously familiar with -- is not the main use of the term if you're white.
    Fixed it for you.

  7. #127
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by rasputin View Post
    I was listening to an old Louis Armstrong record yesterday which included his rendition of "Mame." The lyrics as written for the Broadway musical go like this:

    You coax the blues right out of the horn, Mame
    You charm the husk right off of the corn, Mame
    You've got the banjos strummin' and plunkin' out a tune to beat the band
    The whole plantation's hummin' since you brought Dixie back to Dixieland.
    You make our cotton easy to pick, Mame
    You give my old mint julep a kick, Mame
    You make the old magnolia tree blossom at the mention of your name.
    You've made us feel alive again, you've given us the drive again
    to make the South revive again, Mame.
    You brought the cakewalk back into style, Mame
    You make the weeping willow tree smile, Mame
    Your skin is Dixie satin, there's rebel in your manner and your speech
    You may be from Manhattan, but Georgia never had a sweeter peach.
    You make our blackeyed peas and our grits, Mame
    Seem like the bill of fare at the Ritz, Mame
    You came, you saw, you conquered and absolutely nothing is the same.
    Your special fascination'll prove to be inspirational, we think you're just sensational,
    Mame...Mame...Mame!

    The Broadway musical is from circa 1966. My recording is also many decades old. As Satchmo sings it, he removes not only the reference to picking cotton, but also the reference to the plantation; I think he just sings, "You've got the whole place hummin" etc. instead of "The whole plantation's hummin".

    Also, I was intrigued by Sage's point C above, using plantation in the sense of having been planted as opposed to having been formed naturally.

    Finally, I had an aunt who lived in Plantation, Florida (near Ft. Lauderdale). I wonder if they'll ever change that.
    And Mame was written by Jerry Herman, a gay, Jewish composer, who one would think was not especially inclined towards bucolic representations of the antebellum south. Not sure what conclusions to draw from this. Maybe one of our linguists can help.

  8. #128
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    And Mame was written by Jerry Herman, a gay, Jewish composer, who one would think was not especially inclined towards bucolic representations of the antebellum south. Not sure what conclusions to draw from this. Maybe one of our linguists can help.
    If I recall the show correctly, Mame married a rich guy from the South -- really a buffoon -- whom she met while working as a manicurist. The plot then went on to make fun of him and his family/friends. Not an exaltation of plantation life in the 1930's.
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  9. #129
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Colorado
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    And Mame was written by Jerry Herman, a gay, Jewish composer, who one would think was not especially inclined towards bucolic representations of the antebellum south. Not sure what conclusions to draw from this. Maybe one of our linguists can help.
    Or not.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by throatybeard View Post
    I'd wager that zero people in a discussion about a guy who left Duke three weeks ago are actually confusing that shorthand with a 16y veteran in the NBA. Not one person in this thread is suddenly confused, given the context, that Dan Dakich is talking about college professors on Twitter taking issue with his hot take on... JJ Redick leaving school last month. I'm sure you yourself are not actually confused, even if seeing someone with probably one of the ten most commonly initial sets among anglophone names happens referred to by their initials is somehow jarring. It's false precision.

    Typing on telephones is cumbersome, and I guarantee that when the subject is national politics in 2015-present America, say, people are not suddenly hopelessly confused as to whether someone meant Donald Trump or delirium tremens or Deutsche Telekom or the postal code for Dorchester, when they keystroke "DT." It's obviously the first one.

    There are actual issues to discuss with Johnson and Dakich. Instead, people decided to pick a fight over shorthand in a way that consistently communicates that JJ Redick is the only "real" JJ. Prescriptivist assertions about language are nearly always a proxy for something else.
    Uhh, Im not too proud to admit I totally thought this thread was about Redick when I opened it and started reading it. JJ is still an active player, and Id never seen Jalen referred to as JJ.

    I dont really care if people refer to him as JJ, but it did confuse me.

  11. #131
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    A. The word "plantation" was never used in any derogatory sense when I was a kid in SC. I am trying to think if "staying on your plantation" was ever used as a self-deprecating term like, "staying in your lane." But I don't remember that.

    B. Throughout the tropics and many other places large farming operations are plantations -- such as pineapple, coffee, banana and probably more. I think the common agricultural use is to connote a large farm, but I admit that the terms doesn't ever seemed to be used in the U.S. outside the South.

    C. Here's an odd use. I had a bird tour leader in Peru who had earned a master's degree at the Nicholas School at Duke. He said, in one class he asked the prof, "Why do you call it the Duke Forest, when it is really a 'plantation?'" His meaning was that a forest was a natural occurrence with wide range of trees, shrubs and wildlife, whereas the Duke Forest was intentionally planted with just a couple of species of trees. And, of course, David was an expert on triple-canopy tropical forests in the tropical lowlands of South America with every imaginable variety of plant and animal. When it came time for the final exam in this course, there was one question only: "Is the Duke Forest a forest or a plantation?" I think he got a good grade.

    Anyway, Greg McDermott has been an outspoken coach for a long time. And I am sure the players were truly offended, but the derogatory use -- which I was not previously familiar with -- is not the main use of the term.
    As usual, I left out an important point. Duke grad David is a native of Bolivia.
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

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