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  1. #61
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Tooold View Post
    Good point.
    Regardless, we have no reason now to believe a cell phone was involved. It could just have been that he was going too fast. I guess my point was that most of us have, at one time or another, taken a risk in a car that we shouldnít have taken. And most of us thankfully didnít pay the price for taking that risk.
    Agreed. We have no reason to believe that a cell phone was involved. I wonder who brought it up?

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Durham, NC
    I notice there is an opening in the median just before the crash site right where the road is turning to the right. Given the evident lack of braking, I would hypothesize that the cell phone theory is actually fairly likely in this case, as just a moment of distraction at high speed at that point could easily have brought him near or actually onto the wrong side of the road right there. On the other hand, it's very hard to see anything else that could have disturbed his attention or caused him to suddenly lose control on that section of relatively wide and smooth road. It's not like the curve is especially sharp.

    I wouldn't rule out some kind of mechanical failure, either, of course, and I'm not saying that he definitely was on the phone at the time. I'm just saying that if I were conducting an investigation in a high-profile case like this, I'd sure want to look into whether or not his cell phone was in use at the time. Both the cell phone transmission records and the phone itself would be of interest to me, if I were trying to get a thorough understanding of what happened.

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    I'd tell ya, but then I'd have to kill ya
    Quote Originally Posted by Phredd3 View Post
    I notice there is an opening in the median just before the crash site right where the road is turning to the right. Given the evident lack of braking, I would hypothesize that the cell phone theory is actually fairly likely in this case, as just a moment of distraction at high speed at that point could easily have brought him near or actually onto the wrong side of the road right there. On the other hand, it's very hard to see anything else that could have disturbed his attention or caused him to suddenly lose control on that section of relatively wide and smooth road. It's not like the curve is especially sharp.

    I wouldn't rule out some kind of mechanical failure, either, of course, and I'm not saying that he definitely was on the phone at the time. I'm just saying that if I were conducting an investigation in a high-profile case like this, I'd sure want to look into whether or not his cell phone was in use at the time. Both the cell phone transmission records and the phone itself would be of interest to me, if I were trying to get a thorough understanding of what happened.
    As I understand it, those courtesy cars at golf tournaments are brand new. Certainly it would be for Tiger, who was also the host for this tournament. Hard to see the Genesis Open giving him a Genesis SUV that wasn't primo.

    It's just me, and I must admit that my opinion is rarely humble, but I'm dismissing any talk of equipment failure.

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by dudog84 View Post
    It's just me, and I must admit that my opinion is rarely humble, but I'm dismissing any talk of equipment failure.
    "Wouldn't rule out" is quite a bit different from "think it's likely". Just in case that wasn't clear.

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    I'd tell ya, but then I'd have to kill ya
    Quote Originally Posted by Phredd3 View Post
    "Wouldn't rule out" is quite a bit different from "think it's likely". Just in case that wasn't clear.
    It was clear. I'm just saying there's near zero chance and it really shouldn't even be mentioned unless credible reporting (remember when all reporting was "credible"?) finds something. For what it's worth, JD Power named Genesis the most dependable automotive brand in North America last year. He wasn't driving a Ford Pinto.

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Sea Island, GA
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    Agreed. We have no reason to believe that a cell phone was involved. I wonder who brought it up?
    Well, someone did before me, but only as a ďmaybeĒ, and in the context of reckless driving. Thatís what I was trying to respond to (apparently unsuccessfully). I was trying to say that we have probably all been guilty at some time of doing something reckless. Using a cell phone is an obvious example, but so is driving too fast. Donít know what Tiger did or did not do (except drive too fast).

  7. #67
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Sea Island, GA
    Quote Originally Posted by dudog84 View Post
    As I understand it, those courtesy cars at golf tournaments are brand new. Certainly it would be for Tiger, who was also the host for this tournament. Hard to see the Genesis Open giving him a Genesis SUV that wasn't primo.

    It's just me, and I must admit that my opinion is rarely humble, but I'm dismissing any talk of equipment failure.
    I can verify that the courtesy cars are brand new, at least at the PGA tournament I have worked. Most have only a few miles on them when they are handed over to the prosóhowever many miles they were driven to get to the staging area or the airport. And the pros (or at least the best ones) can request the type of car they want...SUV, truck, etc. Some pros get 2 vehicles...one for the wife and kids. Yes, hard to believe it wasnít a primo car with a lot of options.

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    I moved. Now 12 miles from Heaven, 13 from Hell
    Quote Originally Posted by Tripping William View Post
    Just saw in multiple places that this has been ruled an accident and Tiger wonít face any charges.
    As a traffic engineer, Iíve posted this before (when Sylvia Hatchell hit and killed an elderly pedestrian), but this was not an accident. That implies that there was nobody at fault. That rarely happens (rare cases when a crash is unavoidable due to things like falling trees or animals run out on the road giving no chance to avoid them.)

    It is technically classified as a crash. Somebody is at fault. Driving too fast for conditions (weather or terrain?). Driver at fault. Mechanical problems? Then that mechanic is at fault for allowing the vehicle to fall out of repair, or the manufacturer for substandard parts that failed early. Debris on the road, causing the crash? The vehicle/person responsible for dumping the debris. (Or the res-onsible DOT for not clearing the debris in a reasonable time.)

    This does not mean that for each crash somebody is criminally negligent, not are drivers always charged for their errors. But saying it was an accident, and Tiger wonít be charged? That, to me, is the law enforcement agency not doing their job correctly by issuing that statement. I suspect the statement was to stop the speculation about possible impaired driving, which as we know Tiger has done in the past.

    From what Iíve read about the crash, Iíd speculate either Tiger was going too fast on a curvy, unfamiliar road and lost control , or he was distracted and lost control. (I can do that regarding the crash just as well as the doctors on TV not immediately involved can speculate in the specific injuries and chances for a recovery.)

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    I don't think much of your reasoning or your absence of sympathy. Moreover, the LA DA is not likely to pursue criminal charges against a sympathetic figure like Tiger and his battalion of lawyers unless the evidence is absolutely solid. Nor will the LA sheriff want to face the press every day on this flimsy matter.
    Reasoning? Frankly, I would call it more like "speculation" on my part as to what might have happened. Obviously, I wasn't there (and neither was anyone else on this board) but I think that most people who viewed the accident scene and saw how far Tiger's vehicle traveled off the lane in which he had been originally driving believe that he must have been going at a very high speed and either got distracted or somehow lost control of the vehicle - perhaps when he hit the raised medial strip and the vehicle then apparently began to roll over. I read today that Tiger has no memory of what happened.

    As for lack of sympathy, I like and admire Tiger for his prowess on the golf course and I certainly hope he fully recovers and can play competitive golf again. But, in general, I don't have a lot sympathy (or empathy, perhaps) for people who drive drunk or drive recklessly and endanger other people. I think it is highly irresponsible and selfish. I myself have been involved in two car accidents - one where a drunk person without a valid driver's license smashed (at a high rate of speed) into the back of our car on a crowded interstate late at night; I was fine but my wife suffered a concussion from the whiplash. We could have easily been killed. On another occasion, a distracted person (apparently) smashed into the back of my car when I was stopped at a red light. I had minor whiplash. Cars can be lethal weapons and it was very lucky that Tiger did not kill himself or someone else.

    I'm not so sure I would characterize this event as a "flimsy" matter. As mentioned above, it was very lucky that people weren't killed or seriously injured (other than Tiger).

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by DU82 View Post
    As a traffic engineer, Iíve posted this before (when Sylvia Hatchell hit and killed an elderly pedestrian), but this was not an accident. That implies that there was nobody at fault. That rarely happens (rare cases when a crash is unavoidable due to things like falling trees or animals run out on the road giving no chance to avoid them.)

    It is technically classified as a crash. Somebody is at fault. Driving too fast for conditions (weather or terrain?). Driver at fault. Mechanical problems? Then that mechanic is at fault for allowing the vehicle to fall out of repair, or the manufacturer for substandard parts that failed early. Debris on the road, causing the crash? The vehicle/person responsible for dumping the debris. (Or the res-onsible DOT for not clearing the debris in a reasonable time.)

    This does not mean that for each crash somebody is criminally negligent, not are drivers always charged for their errors. But saying it was an accident, and Tiger wonít be charged? That, to me, is the law enforcement agency not doing their job correctly by issuing that statement. I suspect the statement was to stop the speculation about possible impaired driving, which as we know Tiger has done in the past.

    From what Iíve read about the crash, Iíd speculate either Tiger was going too fast on a curvy, unfamiliar road and lost control , or he was distracted and lost control. (I can do that regarding the crash just as well as the doctors on TV not immediately involved can speculate in the specific injuries and chances for a recovery.)
    Thank you for your thoughts and analysis. I think you are exactly right!

  11. #71
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC area
    Quote Originally Posted by duke79 View Post
    Thank you for your thoughts and analysis. I think you are exactly right!
    Never question the engineer!

    -jk

  12. #72
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Ah, yes... Tiger followed Sage's advice, and I don't even remember talking to him...

    "When [Sheriff Villanueva] saw Woods in the hospital Tuesday, the 15-time major champion told investigators he had no memory of the crash."

    All hearts to Tiger... and I hope he recovers enough to live a normal life.
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  13. #73
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    Quote Originally Posted by DU82 View Post
    As a traffic engineer, Iíve posted this before (when Sylvia Hatchell hit and killed an elderly pedestrian), but this was not an accident. That implies that there was nobody at fault. That rarely happens (rare cases when a crash is unavoidable due to things like falling trees or animals run out on the road giving no chance to avoid them.)

    It is technically classified as a crash. Somebody is at fault. Driving too fast for conditions (weather or terrain?). Driver at fault. Mechanical problems? Then that mechanic is at fault for allowing the vehicle to fall out of repair, or the manufacturer for substandard parts that failed early. Debris on the road, causing the crash? The vehicle/person responsible for dumping the debris. (Or the res-onsible DOT for not clearing the debris in a reasonable time.)

    This does not mean that for each crash somebody is criminally negligent, not are drivers always charged for their errors. But saying it was an accident, and Tiger wonít be charged? That, to me, is the law enforcement agency not doing their job correctly by issuing that statement. I suspect the statement was to stop the speculation about possible impaired driving, which as we know Tiger has done in the past.

    From what Iíve read about the crash, Iíd speculate either Tiger was going too fast on a curvy, unfamiliar road and lost control , or he was distracted and lost control. (I can do that regarding the crash just as well as the doctors on TV not immediately involved can speculate in the specific injuries and chances for a recovery.)
    good analysis. While I truly wish Tiger a good recovery, he sure has a history of automotive mishaps that strain the meaning of "accident." Was it an accident when he veered out of his driveway and crashed? Was it an accident when he was found completely incoherent in the middle of the road in his car? Was his last (high speed) mishap an accident?

    I understand that the authorities don't want to pile on...his injuries are punishment enough given that no one else was hurt. But had he rammed into incoming traffic and killed someone (hardly a long shot) we'd probably be looking at some serious charges indeed.

    There's a point at which he really ought to get his driving act together, as the rest of us are expected to do.

  14. #74
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    I'd tell ya, but then I'd have to kill ya
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    good analysis. While I truly wish Tiger a good recovery, he sure has a history of automotive mishaps that strain the meaning of "accident." Was it an accident when he veered out of his driveway and crashed? Was it an accident when he was found completely incoherent in the middle of the road in his car? Was his last (high speed) mishap an accident?

    I understand that the authorities don't want to pile on...his injuries are punishment enough given that no one else was hurt. But had he rammed into incoming traffic and killed someone (hardly a long shot) we'd probably be looking at some serious charges indeed.

    There's a point at which he really ought to get his driving act together, as the rest of us are expected to do.
    There is some debate over whether a golfer's putting or driving skills go first.

    I know, I know. Inappropriate. But I couldn't help it.

  15. #75
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Greenville, SC
    Quote Originally Posted by dudog84 View Post
    There is some debate over whether a golfer's putting or driving skills go first.

    I know, I know. Inappropriate. But I couldn't help it.
    I am appalled...


    that you beat me to it. I was working on my own poor taste driving skills joke.

  16. #76
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by dudog84 View Post
    It was clear. I'm just saying there's near zero chance and it really shouldn't even be mentioned unless credible reporting (remember when all reporting was "credible"?) finds something. For what it's worth, JD Power named Genesis the most dependable automotive brand in North America last year. He wasn't driving a Ford Pinto.
    I've never thought JD Power was reputable. Consumer Reports says that Genesis and Lincoln have experienced big drops in reliability this past year. For Genesis, this may be ominous, since the brand is only 3 years old.

    Not to change subjects, but I've always had a feeling that JD Power was just a shill for the auto industry, created to combat bad press.

  17. #77
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    I think this thread is a good microcosm of the general public's take (or at least what I've seen from reasonable people). First, everyone wants Tiger to recover physically as much as possible. Because he's such a well known figure, there is a lot of natural curiosity about the crash. Having just a few facts (like knowing that there were no signs of braking) just adds to the curiosity. Obviously some people are more respectful than others but the curiosity about the crash makes sense. For his sake, I hope he wasn't impaired. I'm happy no one else was hurt and frankly if he was impaired or speeding or texting or whatever I think his injuries are punishment enough considering he's an athlete by trade.

  18. #78
    Isn't it possible that he wasn't under the influence, speeding, or looking at his phone, but merely driving a car he was unfamiliar with?

  19. #79
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    Isn't it possible that he wasn't under the influence, speeding, or looking at his phone, but merely driving a car he was unfamiliar with?
    He was headed to work at 7 AM for an 8 PM appearance -- having worked all the previous day. I expect he was not DUI.
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  20. #80
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    He was headed to work at 7 AM for an 8 PM appearance -- having worked all the previous day. I expect he was not DUI.
    I think the assumption for the DUI would be pain meds, not that he was hammered drunk at 7 AM.

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