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  1. #201
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Winston’Salem
    I have no idea about Tiger’s car-driving abilities, or his level of impairment (if any) at the time of this wreck. I do know, from first-hand experience, as of today, that he has designed one helluva golf course at Payne’s Valley (in the Ozarks, just south of Branson, MO). That place is the krzyt.
    "Amazing what a minute can do."

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by cato View Post
    I’ve seen two situations where someone panicked and hit the gas instead of a brake pedal. One was in a parking lot outside of a grocery store where a woman ended up driving her luxury coupe UP a handicap parking sign. Picture a car with its rear fender on the ground, tilted up at a 45 degree angle, all four wheels in the air, front fender pointed at the sky.

    She was fine and unhurt, but looked shaken up. She started at zero and went maybe a car length’s distance.
    Sadly a few years ago there were some old ladies in a car at the very top and near the edge of a multistory parking garage, driver accidentally hit gas instead of brakes. Did not end well. Baltimore maybe?

  3. #203
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    analysis in today's paper resurrected the good point (made by an alleged expert) that Woods was asleep as the road curved to the right and the car went straight...

  4. #204
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Chesapeake, VA.
    Quote Originally Posted by Skydog View Post
    Sadly a few years ago there were some old ladies in a car at the very top and near the edge of a multistory parking garage, driver accidentally hit gas instead of brakes. Did not end well. Baltimore maybe?
    I think it was in Virginia Beach.

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    analysis in today's paper resurrected the good point (made by an alleged expert) that Woods was asleep as the road curved to the right and the car went straight...
    Yea, but the "he fell asleep" theory does not really make much sense to me. It was early morning (but not that early) and he had just left his hotel a few minutes earlier, apparently wide awake, agitated and running late for his his 8:00 AM TV shoot. That is usually not the time and situation where someone falls asleep at the wheel. I think a more likely explanation is that he might have been on his phone or checking a text message (I'm sure someone like Tiger is getting texts non-stop even on his private phone); he was driving at a very high rate of speed for the road (40 to 45 MPH over the posted speed limit); he didn't see the curve; hit the curb and instantly and totally lost control of the vehicle (hitting a raised curb at 87 MPH will do that). I'm still amazed the authorities did not ask for his cell phone records.

  6. #206
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    Quote Originally Posted by duke79 View Post
    Yea, but the "he fell asleep" theory does not really make much sense to me. It was early morning (but not that early) and he had just left his hotel a few minutes earlier, apparently wide awake, agitated and running late for his his 8:00 AM TV shoot. That is usually not the time and situation where someone falls asleep at the wheel. I think a more likely explanation is that he might have been on his phone or checking a text message (I'm sure someone like Tiger is getting texts non-stop even on his private phone); he was driving at a very high rate of speed for the road (40 to 45 MPH over the posted speed limit); he didn't see the curve; hit the curb and instantly and totally lost control of the vehicle (hitting a raised curb at 87 MPH will do that). I'm still amazed the authorities did not ask for his cell phone records.
    it could well be, I really have no opinion...but one would think that the cops would have checked his cell phone. On the other hand, they didn't seem to be particularly thorough in the entire episode. Checking your cell phone when you're driving 85 mph is a habit that one should avoid...

  7. #207
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Skydog View Post
    Sadly a few years ago there were some old ladies in a car at the very top and near the edge of a multistory parking garage, driver accidentally hit gas instead of brakes. Did not end well. Baltimore maybe?
    This sort of thing happens with some regularity. But unless Tiger Woods has suddenly morphed into a 90-year-old man, it doesn't seem especially relevant to his situation.

  8. #208
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    it could well be, I really have no opinion...but one would think that the cops would have checked his cell phone. On the other hand, they didn't seem to be particularly thorough in the entire episode. Checking your cell phone when you're driving 85 mph is a habit that one should avoid...
    Why would they? What's the most they're going to find, and then the most they'd get out of it? To write him a ticket for driving while on his cell phone? What a lot of folks on this thread seem to gloss over is that there is no crime here. Police investigate crimes, or incidents they have reason to suspect involve the commission of a crime. Without evidence of drug or alcohol-induced impairment, and no collision involving harm to anyone but himself, there is really no crime. And while reckless driving is a crime (a misdemeanor, but yes, a crime) in this situation in California the police would need to obtain a warrant to arrest Woods, and getting a judge to sign an arrest warrant for reckless driving based on his cell phone records and his speed, is far from a slam dunk. And even if they got a warrant and arrested Woods for the misdemeanor offense of reckless driving and he ended up getting convicted for it, it's a fine and some points on his license. There is no way the police would go to all that trouble for a reckless driving case against any non-celebrity, so they shouldn't go to extra trouble against Woods simply because he is a celebrity. Frankly they did way more in this case than they would have if it was a regular citizen.

    And Woods is not subject to arrest for the infraction (basically, a ticket) of driving while on his cell phone (or speeding, for that matter) because that infraction did not occur in the presence of an officer. There's no there there, guys.

  9. #209
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by duke79 View Post
    Yea, but the "he fell asleep" theory does not really make much sense to me. It was early morning (but not that early) and he had just left his hotel a few minutes earlier, apparently wide awake, agitated and running late for his his 8:00 AM TV shoot. That is usually not the time and situation where someone falls asleep at the wheel. I think a more likely explanation is that he might have been on his phone or checking a text message (I'm sure someone like Tiger is getting texts non-stop even on his private phone); he was driving at a very high rate of speed for the road (40 to 45 MPH over the posted speed limit); he didn't see the curve; hit the curb and instantly and totally lost control of the vehicle (hitting a raised curb at 87 MPH will do that). I'm still amazed the authorities did not ask for his cell phone records.
    Problem with the "fell asleep" hypothesis -- at least for me -- is that when I have driven and gotten drowsy, I naturally tend to ease up on the gas pedal.
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    This sort of thing happens with some regularity. But unless Tiger Woods has suddenly morphed into a 90-year-old man, it doesn't seem especially relevant to his situation.
    Elderly women regularly drive off the top of multistory parking garages? Oh, my!

  11. #211
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Santa Cruz CA
    For all of you worried about what he did and whether he is at fault and what should the police do, step back and look at the big picture. The end result is that he did no harm to anyone else and he is already suffering consequences from his injuries that go way beyond whatever law enforcement could do to him over this incident. There is no need for any more public resource to be spent on this case.

  12. #212
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Chesapeake, VA.
    Now comes a report of an empty, unmarked pill bottle in a backpack... deemed immaterial....

  13. #213
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by BigWayne View Post
    For all of you worried about what he did and whether he is at fault and what should the police do, step back and look at the big picture. The end result is that he did no harm to anyone else and he is already suffering consequences from his injuries that go way beyond whatever law enforcement could do to him over this incident. There is no need for any more public resource to be spent on this case.
    You mean, you don't agree with the school of thought that perpetrators in all cases need to be pursued and either arrested or cited. For example, you don't think that the sheriff deputy should pin a reckless driving citation on Tiger's shirt while he was lying in the gurney at the scene of the accident.
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  14. #214
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    Quote Originally Posted by tommy View Post
    Why would they? What's the most they're going to find, and then the most they'd get out of it? To write him a ticket for driving while on his cell phone? What a lot of folks on this thread seem to gloss over is that there is no crime here. Police investigate crimes, or incidents they have reason to suspect involve the commission of a crime. Without evidence of drug or alcohol-induced impairment, and no collision involving harm to anyone but himself, there is really no crime. And while reckless driving is a crime (a misdemeanor, but yes, a crime) in this situation in California the police would need to obtain a warrant to arrest Woods, and getting a judge to sign an arrest warrant for reckless driving based on his cell phone records and his speed, is far from a slam dunk. And even if they got a warrant and arrested Woods for the misdemeanor offense of reckless driving and he ended up getting convicted for it, it's a fine and some points on his license. There is no way the police would go to all that trouble for a reckless driving case against any non-celebrity, so they shouldn't go to extra trouble against Woods simply because he is a celebrity. Frankly they did way more in this case than they would have if it was a regular citizen.

    And Woods is not subject to arrest for the infraction (basically, a ticket) of driving while on his cell phone (or speeding, for that matter) because that infraction did not occur in the presence of an officer. There's no there there, guys.
    I think it would be reasonable to treat the man like everyone else is treated. Why the kid glove treatment? Oh, he's a celebrity.
    Had I performed as Woods did, here's what I would expect where I live: 1) a loss of license for a period of time for exceeding the speed limit by more than 30 mph; 2) a citation for using a cell phone (if he did) 3) a citation for reckless (not wreckless) driving, accident resulting...and of course I'd have the ability to try and bargain them down a bit.

    For what purpose? For the purpose of (finally) holding him accountable, so as to perhaps alter his future behavior. He's been indulged for years, passing out in a car in a roadway, hitting a mailbox, veering across two lanes of traffic at a dangerous speed. On his current trajectory he's going to end up hurting someone else.

  15. #215
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    I'd tell ya, but then I'd have to kill ya
    I haven't been on the interstate much lately (thanks COVID), but I was out there doing 75 this morning. If Tiger was doing 85 on that road he is either insane or impaired. I don't care who that friggin' "expert" is, Tiger did not fall asleep (and if he did it was not naturally).

    If this was your granny, it makes one local news cycle. Tiger is one of the most famous names/faces on the planet. Maybe, just maybe, honest news about what happened could keep a few people from making the same mistake. But we'll never know. It's really a shame.

  16. #216
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    I think it would be reasonable to treat the man like everyone else is treated. Why the kid glove treatment? Oh, he's a celebrity.
    Had I performed as Woods did, here's what I would expect where I live: 1) a loss of license for a period of time for exceeding the speed limit by more than 30 mph; 2) a citation for using a cell phone (if he did) 3) a citation for reckless (not wreckless) driving, accident resulting...and of course I'd have the ability to try and bargain them down a bit.

    For what purpose? For the purpose of (finally) holding him accountable, so as to perhaps alter his future behavior. He's been indulged for years, passing out in a car in a roadway, hitting a mailbox, veering across two lanes of traffic at a dangerous speed. On his current trajectory he's going to end up hurting someone else.
    They also would 100% have gotten a warrant for a blood draw (if one is even required when the person is non-responsive which varies by state and I don't know the CA rules on this).

  17. #217
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Quote Originally Posted by Acymetric View Post
    They also would 100% have gotten a warrant for a blood draw (if one is even required when the person is non-responsive which varies by state and I don't know the CA rules on this).
    Yes it is required in CA and you are mistaken that they would have 100% gotten a warrant. Not with zero evidence of alcohol or drug-induced impairment. Where is the "probable cause" that would justify the signing of the warrant for suspicion of DUI? The fact of an accident doesn't do it. Neither would speeding, and they actually didn't even have evidence of that at the time. Prior conduct is legally irrelevant to it. Attempting to get a search warrant based on the scant information they had at the time would have been a futile act.

  18. #218
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by tommy View Post
    Yes it is required in CA and you are mistaken that they would have 100% gotten a warrant. Not with zero evidence of alcohol or drug-induced impairment. Where is the "probable cause" that would justify the signing of the warrant for suspicion of DUI?
    Empty unlabeled pill bottle in the back seat is more than enough for probable cause, it isn't that high a bar.

    The fact of an accident doesn't do it. Neither would speeding, and they actually didn't even have evidence of that at the time. Prior conduct is legally irrelevant to it. Attempting to get a search warrant based on the scant information they had at the time would have been a futile act.
    At what time? They don't have to do the blood draw at the scene of the accident. You don't have to get the warrant immediately, or even quickly. Maybe not even the same day. They don't even have to get their own specific blood draw, they can get a warrant for a sample from blood draws that were already done for medical purposes.

  19. #219
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by tommy View Post
    Yes it is required in CA and you are mistaken that they would have 100% gotten a warrant. Not with zero evidence of alcohol or drug-induced impairment. Where is the "probable cause" that would justify the signing of the warrant for suspicion of DUI? The fact of an accident doesn't do it. Neither would speeding, and they actually didn't even have evidence of that at the time. Prior conduct is legally irrelevant to it. Attempting to get a search warrant based on the scant information they had at the time would have been a futile act.
    Perhaps you are right about the probable cause in California. I'm not a practicing attorney in California, and I assume by your confident statements that you are. However, your facts are wrong. They absolutely did have evidence of speeding at the time. While they did not provide specific speed estimates, early articles indicated that at least some degree of speeding was evident on the day of the accident. The fact that no braking was used was apparent no later than the press conference the morning of the next day (and likely was actually determined on the day of the accident, though I can't find specific confirmation of that).

    Again, I'm not disputing your judgment as to whether or not a issuance of a warrant was likely under California law, but we should be clear about the factual background.

  20. #220
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    You mean, you don't agree with the school of thought that perpetrators in all cases need to be pursued and either arrested or cited. For example, you don't think that the sheriff deputy should pin a reckless driving citation on Tiger's shirt while he was lying in the gurney at the scene of the accident.
    Look. Any normal person in these circumstances is probably getting wheeled from the hospital to the nearest detention center once they're discharged. If you don't get why that irks people I don't know what to tell you.

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