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  1. #141
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    North of Durham
    [QUOTE=CameronBornAndBred;1341458]
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    for what it may be worth, USA Today (Gannett) got three car accident experts (who aren't involved) to weigh in, and they put forward a fairly convincing case that Woods fell asleep../QUOTE]





    Maybe alien sleep ray?
    (PS...it was in the morning, and with the reports that he had almost hit another car in the parking lot, I'm not buying the "asleep" thing. At least not naturally. I don't care what the sheriff says.)
    I've never woken up and then taken a nap immediately once I was behind the wheel. And if I did, I'm assuming the insurance companies would love me, since they wouldn't be paying a dime.
    I have pretty bad sleep apnea, which I try to treat with moderate success. I have never fallen asleep behind the wheel or even come close, except at 2 am on a dark interstate after driving for many hours, which I think is fairly normal for anyone, with or without sleep apnea. That being said, I am routinely asked when doing surveys for doctors and other purposes whether I get sleepy or fall asleep behind the wheel, as apparently this is something that happens reasonably often to people with sleep apnea. Though as I understand it, I think it is more likely to happen when stopped at a traffic light or in traffic than in a moving vehicle.

    Not saying whether or not this was an issue for Tiger. Just saying that this does happen to people so can't be completely dismissed. I believe that there is a purpose to finding out what happened because if he was behaving in an irresponsible way (not saying he was or wasn't - I have no idea and haven't been following this closely), then perhaps someone can learn something from it. I think that general speculation about what might or might not have happened doesn't really get us anywhere.

  2. #142
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by duke79 View Post
    Yea, I live in a part of the country with huge numbers of wildlife - deer, bear, coyotes, foxes, bobcats, mountain lions (allegedly), moose, skunks, raccoons, woodchucks, etc., any one of which may be crossing the road at the same time you're driving along (whether day or night). I've been lucky to have "hit" only one deer (it actually skidded into the side of my car after I had stopped quickly to avoid hitting his "mate" that crossed in front of me and, luckily, I think it was OK (ran off into the woods after hitting my car) but it put a good size dent into the front left side of the car and crumpled the hood partly. But I have had several close calls over the years. My daughter did hit a baby bear a couple of summers ago (ugh) but I don't think killed it (we couldn't find the injured bear). I've "terminated" the lives of quite a few squirrels and chipmunks over the years. It is NEVER pleasant hitting a large animal and many people around us have been killed in car accidents, swerving to avoid hitting the animal. A friend of mine who own an auto body repair shop told me that a substantial percentage of his business is repairing cars damaged in animal collisions.
    A girlfriend in high school nick-named me "Fuzzy Bunny Killer" after one such unfortunate event. I'm not sure she ever got over that...

    It's a good thing she wasn't around years later when the riding lawnmower... well, we won't finish that story.
    "That young man has an extra step on his ladder the rest of us just don't have."

  3. #143
    [QUOTE=CrazyNotCrazie;1341461]
    Quote Originally Posted by CameronBornAndBred View Post

    I have pretty bad sleep apnea, which I try to treat with moderate success. I have never fallen asleep behind the wheel or even come close, except at 2 am on a dark interstate after driving for many hours, which I think is fairly normal for anyone, with or without sleep apnea. That being said, I am routinely asked when doing surveys for doctors and other purposes whether I get sleepy or fall asleep behind the wheel, as apparently this is something that happens reasonably often to people with sleep apnea. Though as I understand it, I think it is more likely to happen when stopped at a traffic light or in traffic than in a moving vehicle.

    Not saying whether or not this was an issue for Tiger. Just saying that this does happen to people so can't be completely dismissed. I believe that there is a purpose to finding out what happened because if he was behaving in an irresponsible way (not saying he was or wasn't - I have no idea and haven't been following this closely), then perhaps someone can learn something from it. I think that general speculation about what might or might not have happened doesn't really get us anywhere.
    THe National Highway Traffic Administration estimates that as many as 72,000 auto accidents are caused each year, with as many as 44,000 injuries and up to 6,000 dead, as a result of people falling asleep when driving. No doubt it is a MAJOR cause of auto accidents in this country.

    We probably shouldn't be speculating on this board about what might have caused Tiger's accident but, if he did fall asleep, it may explain why he has no memory of the accident and there were no skid marks on the road where he first hit the curb. It DOES make some sense.

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Nrrrrvous View Post
    A girlfriend in high school nick-named me "Fuzzy Bunny Killer" after one such unfortunate event. I'm not sure she ever got over that...

    It's a good thing she wasn't around years later when the riding lawnmower... well, we won't finish that story.
    Yea, I've definitely shortened the lifespan of quite a few small creatures, including rabbits. I never feel good about it but almost unavoidable where I live.

  5. #145
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    New Bern, NC unless it's a home football game then I'm grilling on Devil's Alley
    [QUOTE=CrazyNotCrazie;1341461]
    Quote Originally Posted by CameronBornAndBred View Post

    I have pretty bad sleep apnea, which I try to treat with moderate success. I have never fallen asleep behind the wheel or even come close, except at 2 am on a dark interstate after driving for many hours, which I think is fairly normal for anyone, with or without sleep apnea. That being said, I am routinely asked when doing surveys for doctors and other purposes whether I get sleepy or fall asleep behind the wheel, as apparently this is something that happens reasonably often to people with sleep apnea. Though as I understand it, I think it is more likely to happen when stopped at a traffic light or in traffic than in a moving vehicle.

    Not saying whether or not this was an issue for Tiger. Just saying that this does happen to people so can't be completely dismissed. I believe that there is a purpose to finding out what happened because if he was behaving in an irresponsible way (not saying he was or wasn't - I have no idea and haven't been following this closely), then perhaps someone can learn something from it. I think that general speculation about what might or might not have happened doesn't really get us anywhere.
    I'm only posting this because I get to quote myself in something that I never posted. (But I do stand behind what I DID post, ha!)
    Q "Why do you like Duke, you didn't even go there." A "Because my art school didn't have a basketball team."

  6. #146
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Outside Philly
    Quote Originally Posted by dudog84 View Post
    Hey! Are you trying to get us back on topic or what? You wouldn't be double-posting as bundabergdevil, would ya? I hear that happens 'round here.
    Hah hah. I did end up posting about the potential for venison harvesting from hit by a car in the head. Body hits usually spoil the meat. Some areas not from me will actually harvest the venison from road kill if it's not spoiled and donate it to local food pantries and such.

    If you can't beat 'em, join 'em and such...

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    Another Helpful Hint From Heloise: if you somehow avoid the deer that just bolted in front of you, start braking because there's a high probability that one or more deer are about to follow. They're somewhat like mice, there's never just one.
    This. Wife and I lived on the California coast for a bit shortly after we got married, about half way between LA and the bay area. Driving on the coast at night in the fog, if you saw a deer cross ahead of you, go ahead and stop. If you pause about four seconds, you would frequently see several more pass.

  8. #148
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by duke79 View Post
    Yea, I've definitely shortened the lifespan of quite a few small creatures, including rabbits. I never feel good about it but almost unavoidable where I live.
    Second-hand story: the bird guide I toured with in Australia said he was driving a group at night through the forest headed to a famous lodge up north in Queensland. All of a sudden there was a bump -- "What was that?" they asked. "A rabbit," said the tour leader. He never told them it was a koala.

    Goes without saying, I guess -- if he had admitted the truth, they would have had to stop and inspect the presumably dead animal, and it would have been the topic of conversation the rest of the two-week tour. Also, the guide's tips would likely have been affected.
    Last edited by sagegrouse; 03-01-2021 at 07:49 PM.
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    Second-hand story: the bird guide I toured with in Australia said he was driving a group at night through the forest headed to a famous lodge up north in Queensland. All of a sudden there was a bump -- "What was that?" they asked. "A rabbit," said the tour leader. He never told them it was a koala.
    Yes, the famous substitute the animal technique. I wonder if the 11 year old at dinner in France ever figured out the dinner meat wasn't the chicken we told her it was. She was being a very picky eater and would not have touched the rabbit.

  10. #150
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    New Bern, NC unless it's a home football game then I'm grilling on Devil's Alley
    AHA!!!!

    WoodsWreck.jpg

    (PS, rhymes with Barol Caskins)
    Q "Why do you like Duke, you didn't even go there." A "Because my art school didn't have a basketball team."

  11. #151

    Some Local Knowledge

    I grew up in the area. In fact, my high school's athletic fields are situated on a hill right above there with a view of the crash site. Jay Bilas went there a year behind me, but please don't hold that against me! I must have driven that road hundreds of times once I got my license before leaving for Duke and later moving out of the immediate area.

    The road from Tiger's hotel to the crash site (PV Drive to Hawthorne Blvd) is full of turns, traffic lights, and hills. It's very hard for me to imagine how he (or anyone) could have fallen asleep at that time of day after such a short amount of driving time while on a road that demands your attention. It is about as far from a long boring highway at night (what I assume is worst case for falling asleep at the wheel) as you can get. The section where the crash occurred is rather steep and is at a turn as has been reported. Further down the hill beyond the crash site and just prior to the next signal light is a runaway vehicle escape lane with a gravel pit to stop trucks that have lost their brakes. Anyone driving that stretch of road would be crazy to consider anything more than a very quick glance at their phone.

    I remain baffled as to the cause and circumstances of the crash given what has been reported. I do wish Tiger well.

  12. #152
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    I'd tell ya, but then I'd have to kill ya
    Quote Originally Posted by Book_Face View Post
    I grew up in the area. In fact, my high school's athletic fields are situated on a hill right above there with a view of the crash site. Jay Bilas went there a year behind me, but please don't hold that against me! I must have driven that road hundreds of times once I got my license before leaving for Duke and later moving out of the immediate area.

    The road from Tiger's hotel to the crash site (PV Drive to Hawthorne Blvd) is full of turns, traffic lights, and hills. It's very hard for me to imagine how he (or anyone) could have fallen asleep at that time of day after such a short amount of driving time while on a road that demands your attention. It is about as far from a long boring highway at night (what I assume is worst case for falling asleep at the wheel) as you can get. The section where the crash occurred is rather steep and is at a turn as has been reported. Further down the hill beyond the crash site and just prior to the next signal light is a runaway vehicle escape lane with a gravel pit to stop trucks that have lost their brakes. Anyone driving that stretch of road would be crazy to consider anything more than a very quick glance at their phone.

    I remain baffled as to the cause and circumstances of the crash given what has been reported. I do wish Tiger well.
    Local knowledge is important, thanks. And yeah, I put him falling asleep in these conditions to be even more ridiculous than something going wrong with the car. But hey, those "experts" got their name in the paper/internet.

    I just finished watching the Paradise Lost trilogy, and one of the most galling things was that the prosecution put on the stand a satanic cult "expert" who got his PhD from what appeared to be a mail-order university with no classes. But it's good work if you can get it.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by dudog84 View Post
    Local knowledge is important, thanks. And yeah, I put him falling asleep in these conditions to be even more ridiculous than something going wrong with the car. But hey, those "experts" got their name in the paper/internet.

    I just finished watching the Paradise Lost trilogy, and one of the most galling things was that the prosecution put on the stand a satanic cult "expert" who got his PhD from what appeared to be a mail-order university with no classes. But it's good work if you can get it.
    Yea, maybe the "Tiger fell asleep and lost control of the car" is a longshot theory (given the time of day and the fact that he had only driven a short distance from the hotel on a busy road). I also don't buy the "malfunction of the vehicle" theory. I still think the most logical explanation (and I'm no car accident expert and obviously wasn't there at the time of the accident) is that he was running late to his appointment at the golf course; was speeding and driving on a curvy, hilly road that he was not that familiar with; (maybe) became distracted somehow (cell phone, perhaps); hits the curb (again at a high rate of speed) and loses control of the vehicle and the SUV begins to roll over repeatedly.

  14. #154
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    I'd tell ya, but then I'd have to kill ya
    Quote Originally Posted by duke79 View Post
    Yea, maybe the "Tiger fell asleep and lost control of the car" is a longshot theory (given the time of day and the fact that he had only driven a short distance from the hotel on a busy road). I also don't buy the "malfunction of the vehicle" theory. I still think the most logical explanation (and I'm no car accident expert and obviously wasn't there at the time of the accident) is that he was running late to his appointment at the golf course; was speeding and driving on a curvy, hilly road that he was not that familiar with; (maybe) became distracted somehow (cell phone, perhaps); hits the curb (again at a high rate of speed) and loses control of the vehicle and the SUV begins to roll over repeatedly.
    One reason I have never messed with my phone in the car (except at a stoplight) is the knowledge that at 70 mph (interstate traffic) I'm traveling over 100 feet every second. Even at slower city speeds, you're probably closer to the car in front of you than you're traveling in one second.

    Tiger was probably going about 55 (was in 45 zone and the police said he was fast) so he was going about 80 feet per second. The typical traffic lane is 10 feet wide. A lot can go wrong in a second, whether distracted by the phone or something else. Oh, for the days of the horse and buggy.

    People, please don't phone and drive. Most of us on this board lived quite happily for years without a cell phone. Virtually nothing is so important that you can't wait until you get to a safer place to check your phone.

  15. #155
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    I'd tell ya, but then I'd have to kill ya
    I've wondered how far he traveled after hitting the curb, which should have gotten his attention. 400 feet. Wow.

    After hitting the initial curb, he traveled about 400 feet in a relative straight line without apparent evidence of steering out of it or braking in the form of skid marks.
    The police got a search warrant for the black box, but will not for blood (It's way late for that, maybe the hospital has some from that morning? Moot.) If, and yes it's a big if that we'll never know, but if Tiger was under the influence of anything he is very lucky he didn't involve anyone else. This story would have a much different tone.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/gol...GEz?li=BBnb7Kz

  16. #156
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    St. Louis
    I'm late to the part of the discussion about hitting this animal or that. My late brother was driving one summer on a curvy lonely road in western North Carolina and all of a sudden there was a cow, which he hit. When he got home, his wife looked at the damage an wouldn't believe him, figured he had been doing something reckless, etc. She finally did believe him when she saw (and smelled) the cow x%&(#*$* on the inside of the back window of his Ford Pinto.

  17. #157
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    I'd tell ya, but then I'd have to kill ya
    This seems odd. The L.A. Sheriff knows what caused Tiger's wreck, but won't say without Tiger's permission. Why say anything then? So now if Tiger refuses, that puts a huge cloud of speculation over him.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/gol...Nt8?li=BBnb7Kz

  18. #158
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    New Bern, NC unless it's a home football game then I'm grilling on Devil's Alley
    Quote Originally Posted by dudog84 View Post
    This seems odd. The L.A. Sheriff knows what caused Tiger's wreck, but won't say without Tiger's permission. Why say anything then? So now if Tiger refuses, that puts a huge cloud of speculation over him.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/gol...Nt8?li=BBnb7Kz
    $$$$$$$$$$
    Q "Why do you like Duke, you didn't even go there." A "Because my art school didn't have a basketball team."

  19. #159
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    Quote Originally Posted by dudog84 View Post
    This seems odd. The L.A. Sheriff knows what caused Tiger's wreck, but won't say without Tiger's permission. Why say anything then? So now if Tiger refuses, that puts a huge cloud of speculation over him.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/gol...Nt8?li=BBnb7Kz
    Yeah, the average guy who has dealings with the police rarely gets this kind of consideration...

  20. #160
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Undisclosed
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    Yeah, the average guy who has dealings with the police rarely gets this kind of consideration...
    It makes sense if it is HIPAA-related.

    Otherwise, not.

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