MBB: Duke 85, Syracuse 71 Post-Game Thread

[azzefkram]

Interestingly, that wasn't always the case. In the 1986-1992 range, Packer was pretty darn good. It was in the 2000s that he got really curmudgeonly, and especially so towards Duke.

That's how I remember it as well. Packer wasn't an instant dislike. He earned it.

[tommy]

To me the best announcers are the ones that a) focus on the game, and b) are authentic, and not putting on a shtick of some sort.

Al McGuire, in another era, was that guy for me. Dude was priceless, one of a kind. Along with Hubie Brown for the NBA. Just explain the game, but also do it in a way that is interesting and entertaining. Maybe even teach an interested viewer something he or she didn't know. Not trying to put on a show or make it about yourself. Today, I think Raftery does a pretty good job of that, as does Gminski. Those guys are authentic and real. Of the play-by-play guys I really like Gus Johnson although I don't get to see him much anymore. Dude is super enthusiastic and knowledgeable and loves the game and makes it fun.

Packer was an oddball because he wasn't about showmanship, he did focus on the game, but he was still annoying. But I'd take him any day, even with his anti-Duke bias, over the yahoos with their stories about themselves that are unrelated to the game, their silly attempts at creative nicknames that nobody thinks are cute or funny, or any of the other nonsense that passes for "commentary" today.

[szstark]

Huh? Of course those aren't actual quotes. I was just saying that he could've been honest about the situation -- which is that we don't definitively know whether Jalen's absence has been a contributing factor in Duke's obvious improvement, or not -- without it being "bashing" of the kid with the type of language that WOULD have constituted such bashing.

I think you have this backwards. Bilas was upset with Boeheim for suggesting negative things about Johnson, not the other way around. Also, putting quotation marks around things Bilas didn’t say is totally misleading. There are enough people on this board who don’t like what he actually says without putting words into his mouth.

[Acymetric]

I think you have this backwards. Bilas was upset with Boeheim for suggesting negative things about Johnson, not the other way around. Also, putting quotation marks around things Bilas didn’t say is totally misleading. There are enough people on this board who don’t like what he actually says without putting words into his mouth.

I think you are misreading tommy's post. The quotation marks were around things Bilas' could have said that would have made the same point with the benefit of being true (unlike what Bilas actually said, which was demonstrably untrue, to the extent that the on-screen graphic while he was saying it even undermined what he was saying). That is a perfectly normal way to use quotation marks in writing when discussing things someone could have hypothetically said, and the post made it perfectly clear that the "quotes" were hypothetical things Bilas could have said as opposed to something he actually said.

[sagegrouse]

Packer was all negativity, all the time. If somebody made a great offensive play, Packer would say, "That was a missed defensive assignment." If somebody made a great steal and a breakaway dunk, Packer would say, "What a poorly thrown pass!" Nobody ever made a good move or made a good block or a good steal or a good shot; everything was viewed directly from the opposite point of view.

I found it extremely tiresome.

Billy created the role of TV hoops commentator and pushed it really hard. Although what you say is true, he was a pioneer in TV hoops.

[sagegrouse]

To me the best announcers are the ones that a) focus on the game, and b) are authentic, and not putting on a shtick of some sort.

Al McGuire, in another era, was that guy for me. Dude was priceless, one of a kind. Along with Hubie Brown for the NBA. Just explain the game, but also do it in a way that is interesting and entertaining. Maybe even teach an interested viewer something he or she didn't know. Not trying to put on a show or make it about yourself. Today, I think Raftery does a pretty good job of that, as does Gminski. Those guys are authentic and real. Of the play-by-play guys I really like Gus Johnson although I don't get to see him much anymore. Dude is super enthusiastic and knowledgeable and loves the game and makes it fun.

Packer was an oddball because he wasn't about showmanship, he did focus on the game, but he was still annoying. But I'd take him any day, even with his anti-Duke bias, over the yahoos with their stories about themselves that are unrelated to the game, their silly attempts at creative nicknames that nobody thinks are cute or funny, or any of the other nonsense that passes for "commentary" today.

I have always liked Raftery -- he treats it as "a game" and thinks everyone should be having fun. I mean TV sports is not War and Peace "on the frozen tundra of Lambeau Field..."

[CDu]

To me the best announcers are the ones that a) focus on the game, and b) are authentic, and not putting on a shtick of some sort.

Al McGuire, in another era, was that guy for me. Dude was priceless, one of a kind. Along with Hubie Brown for the NBA. Just explain the game, but also do it in a way that is interesting and entertaining. Maybe even teach an interested viewer something he or she didn't know. Not trying to put on a show or make it about yourself. Today, I think Raftery does a pretty good job of that, as does Gminski. Those guys are authentic and real. Of the play-by-play guys I really like Gus Johnson although I don't get to see him much anymore. Dude is super enthusiastic and knowledgeable and loves the game and makes it fun.

Packer was an oddball because he wasn't about showmanship, he did focus on the game, but he was still annoying. But I'd take him any day, even with his anti-Duke bias, over the yahoos with their stories about themselves that are unrelated to the game, their silly attempts at creative nicknames that nobody thinks are cute or funny, or any of the other nonsense that passes for "commentary" today.

Worth noting that Gus Johnson is a play-by-play guy rather than an analyst (which is what the other guys you mentioned are). So the job expectations are totally different. I agree though that Johnson’s enthusiasm makes him one of the best play-by-play guys in the business.

[throatybeard]

I confess to loving the sounds of basketball, even without the crowds. Something about the snap of a net on a long, perfect three-pointer, or the crash of the rim on a thunder-dunk, or even just the squeaking of sneakers are irresistible to me. I just can't bring myself to watch on mute, even if I happen to hate the announcers.

Now if I were given a "mute announcers" button, I would happily use that quite freely...

Some while back, somebody here told us how they were able to split audio channels so that they were able to mute announcers and keep the ambient noise from the arena. That sounds heavenly. I forget who.

[throatybeard]

Al McGuire, in another era, was that guy for me. Dude was priceless, one of a kind.

💯% It's been a long time since I was actively jazzed about some color guy assigned to our games rather than "oh he's not bad" being the ceiling. Brad Daugherty was probably the only one after Al died.

[Mrezt]

Some while back, somebody here told us how they were able to split audio channels so that they were able to mute announcers and keep the ambient noise from the arena. That sounds heavenly. I forget who.

The old trick was to have a 5.1 audio system, and to mute the center speaker to mute the announcers. Not sure if it still works, however.

[Wander]

Bob Knight was the best color guy for actually learning about basketball. It's too bad he couldn't be bothered to put any effort into the job and was such a d-bag otherwise.

[tommy]

Worth noting that Gus Johnson is a play-by-play guy rather than an analyst (which is what the other guys you mentioned are). So the job expectations are totally different. I agree though that Johnson’s enthusiasm makes him one of the best play-by-play guys in the business.

He is, and I said that in my post!

[uh_no]

I have always liked Raftery -- he treats it as "a game" and thinks everyone should be having fun. I mean TV sports is not War and Peace "on the frozen tundra of Lambeau Field..."

he's getting on the old side, unfortunately, and can't bring the energy he once did.

[arnie]

Billy created the role of TV hoops commentator and pushed it really hard. Although what you say is true, he was a pioneer in TV hoops.

He also evolved into Mr. Cash. If I recall, hawking high interest loans to low in income or strapped viewers. Not a lot to like about Billy Packer.

[throatybeard]

The old trick was to have a 5.1 audio system, and to mute the center speaker to mute the announcers. Not sure if it still works, however.

I do still have two receivers that operate this way, Sonys from 1996 and 2000. But I only have L/R bookshelfs hooked up to them. And maybe the feed doesn't any longer permit it, IDK.

[jimsumner]

Packer is extremely knowledgeable and was able to communicate that knowledge as well as anyone who's ever held that job. But, as a commentator, he had a very high opinion of himself and made no attempt to hide it.

Many at Duke remember the time he tried to get into a game he was working in Cameron. He either had forgotten his I.D. or just assumed he didn't need it. He was asked to show his media badge and went all-DO-YOU-WHO-AM on some poor security worker who deserved better.

To his credit (I suppose), Packer had every ACC fan base convinced he bore a special hatred of their team. I guess that's a special talent.

But listen to his call of the 1983 NC State-Houston title game. The man knew his stuff.

[uh_no]

Packer is extremely knowledgeable and was able to communicate that knowledge as well as anyone who's ever held that job. But, as a commentator, he had a very high opinion of himself and made no attempt to hide it.

Many at Duke remember the time he tried to get into a game he was working in Cameron. He either had forgotten his I.D. or just assumed he didn't need it. He was asked to show his media badge and went all-DO-YOU-WHO-AM on some poor security worker who deserved better.

To his credit (I suppose), Packer had every ACC fan base convinced he bore a special hatred of their team. I guess that's a special talent.

But listen to his call of the 1983 NC State-Houston title game. The man knew his stuff.

It wouldn't be the first time I'd've had to get a police officer involved. It's amazing how much people calm down. In any case, once the other party escalates, I'm not going to tolerate it. I don't care who you are.

Standard practice would be to call a supervisor, and let them go up the chain until someone can make the right call, but the rank-and-file aren't enabled to make that decision.

That said, they usually hand out a thing pictures of "recognize these people and don't give them a hard time" which include Drs. Price and White, among others, whom it is good to recognize regardless....but sure as heck the commentators aren't on that list.



In any case, I'm pretty sure the only time I've stopped Jim is to double check he was using an approved powerade cup on press row during the last time the women played the first 2 rounds in cameron. I'm pretty sure he was, and pretty sure was quite understanding. Were only Billy Packer more like Jim.

[UrinalCake]

Many at Duke remember the time [Packer] tried to get into a game he was working in Cameron. He either had forgotten his I.D. or just assumed he didn't need it. He was asked to show his media badge and went all-DO-YOU-WHO-AM on some poor security worker who deserved better.

My recollection of the incident (or maybe this was a different incident) was that the security guard was a female and Packer remarked to her "shouldn't you be working a women's game?" or something to that effect.

[Bluedog]

Honestly, both of them need to stop being petulant and stop engaging in a stupid pissing match. I'm not holding my breath.

I actually thought Jay addressed this well by saying "we're both adults. We can disagree on something and still respect each other." Unfortunately, our society nowadays is very bad at saying "I disagree and have a different opinion, but that's okay." I took Jay to basically say that in his comments.

The media, however, often looks to play up feuds and quote out of context. Even when they quoted Boeheim during the broadcast they left out his clarifying statement at first, although they summarized it after the commercial break. Boeheim also basically interjected himself only because he was asked a question about it and also has a podcast where he simply has to fill air time. His clarifying statement was basically: "I wasn't judging Jalen as a player or a person. I was simply observing that Duke seems to be playing better recently after he left. That's just my opinion."

[Tripping William]

My recollection of the incident (or maybe this was a different incident) was that the security guard was a female and Packer remarked to her "shouldn't you be working a women's game?" or something to that effect.

+1 on that recollection