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  1. #81
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by DukieInBrasil View Post
    Mark is a fine player and i look forward to his development. The Landlord's game was great, but he was still a rather below-the-rim player despite being such a good shot-blocker and rebounder. I mean, he could dunk and all, but his prowess wasn't based on height+hops, rather on positioning and timing, and skill. Mark is taller, has more hops, and isn't as beefy. I'd be thrilled for Mark to achieve what The Landlord did. I'm not sure we'll ever see Mark in a Zoubek-like frame, but that would be amazing! Brian was (is) an enormous, broad-shouldered man, whereas Mark is much more slender, and narrow-gage at the shoulders. I think a bit more muscle would really expand what Mark can do on the court, but it might detract from a lot of what makes him special if he were to bulk up too much. But i do like to imagine Mark blocking shots like Shelden, grabbing rebounds like Zoubek, and dunking on fools like he already does!!!
    Best Duke analog for Mark Williams? How about Marques Bolden with a motor?

  2. #82
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    North of Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    Best Duke analog for Mark Williams? How about Marques Bolden with a motor?
    In the spirit of the extremely rare cross-racial comparison, how about Mason?

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    Best Duke analog for Mark Williams? How about Marques Bolden with a motor?
    that works, but i'm not sure i'm willing to disparage the motor on Big 'Ques, just his actual litheness. Particularly his Jr. year, i felt like 'Ques was going as hard as he could, he was just kinda slow of foot.
    I still think that Casey Sanders is the ideal comparison in terms of physique and agility, but Mark's skill level is already beyond Casey's peak. Frankly by the end of this year i expect that Mark will also be far ahead of 'Ques's output by the time he finished at Duke.
    It frightens me to think that if Mark keeps playing like he did vs. SYR, he might not be at Duke next year. Honestly, if the way they played vs SYR is the average game for Steward and Roach the rest of the way this year, i wouldn't be surprised if they leave too...
    MW- 18-11 & 2 blocks, DJ- 21 & 7 assists, JR- 14 & 7 assists : who wouldn't draft players with those numbers in the 1st Rd.?

  4. #84
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by DukieInBrasil View Post
    Mark is much more slender, and narrow-gage at the shoulders. I think a bit more muscle would really expand what Mark can do on the court, but it might detract from a lot of what makes him special if he were to bulk up too much. But i do like to imagine Mark blocking shots like Shelden, grabbing rebounds like Zoubek, and dunking on fools like he already does!!!
    Just look at his sister. She really was able to bulk up after arriving at Duke, and she never lost her hops. She also had a ridiculous reach and great timing. She ended up just eight blocks short of Alison Bailes for most blocks all-time at Duke, despite the facts that her teams didn't go as far in tournament play and that Bailes was a whopping four inches taller. I think Mark can be truly great in a very similar role. Too bad he won't stay four years like she did, but the finances are very different for the guys.

  5. #85
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyNotCrazie View Post
    In the spirit of the extremely rare cross-racial comparison, how about Mason?
    Hasn't Williams already made two 15-foot jumpers?

    But I do like the 4-year thingee.

    Plumlee did run the floor exceptionally well for a 7-footer. He had a dunk against Ohio State on a 75-foot pass that was beyond category.

    Williams shares some physical attributes with Alaa Abdelnaby. But Williams is as good or better as a freshman than Abdelnaby was as a junior.

    And Williams is better as a freshman than Casey Sanders was as a senior.

    K said back in October that he had never really had anyone exactly like Williams. Maybe he was on to something.

  6. #86
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Cary, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by FerryFor50 View Post
    One of my favorite parts of the game broadcast last night was the segment about Dolezaj talking about "toughness" and the first clip was him flopping for a charge call on Zion.
    Yeah they had that clip just loaded in the holster and ready to go. I donít think it was a flop though, he might not have taken the full brunt of contact head on but he was out for a couple games after that play happened.

    Out of the Plumlees I would say Williams reminds me most of Marshall. Heís still very raw and learning to use his size. But to see him gaining confidence and putting it all together has been so much fun.

  7. #87
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Santa Clara, CA
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    Best Duke analog for Mark Williams? How about Marques Bolden with a motor?
    Not a Duke analog, but I look at Williams and see Javale McGee in the NBA (GSW and LAL versions). Great hops, long arms for defense, runs the floor, alley-oops/lob dunks. But also hard to defend perimeter bigs that can move well, no long-range shooting and not bulky enough to consistently bang with wide-bodied post players. Put McGee in the right situation (with the right team and against the right team), and he went off for a double-double. Seems the same for Williams (just see the last 2 games). Williams does have a high ceiling. But if Duke makes a run and Williams shines, I suspect the lure of the draft may be heard due to that ceiling. FWIW, if Duke does make the tourney and even wins one game there, I'd bet more players than just Hurt will be early entry... which is the price for success at Duke*.

    9F

    * - It's great writing about potentially winning games in the NCAAT. This team was 7-8 not too long ago. This is why I don't stop believing!
    Bucket List - Throw a party when Duke MBB has a winning record against Carolina.

  8. #88
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by kako View Post
    Not a Duke analog, but I look at Williams and see Javale McGee in the NBA (GSW and LAL versions). Great hops, long arms for defense, runs the floor, alley-oops/lob dunks. But also hard to defend perimeter bigs that can move well, no long-range shooting and not bulky enough to consistently bang with wide-bodied post players. Put McGee in the right situation (with the right team and against the right team), and he went off for a double-double. Seems the same for Williams (just see the last 2 games). Williams does have a high ceiling. But if Duke makes a run and Williams shines, I suspect the lure of the draft may be heard due to that ceiling. FWIW, if Duke does make the tourney and even wins one game there, I'd bet more players than just Hurt will be early entry... which is the price for success at Duke*.

    9F

    * - It's great writing about potentially winning games in the NCAAT. This team was 7-8 not too long ago. This is why I don't stop believing!
    I like the ability and the potential growth in capability of Mark Williams. He turned 19 in December -- and, as a legitimate seven-footer, already shows a huge amount of coordination and skill. Behind-the-back passes? Running the court like a gazelle? I think "Mason Plumlee" but with much longer arms.

    I hope Mark sticks around -- I will enjoy seeing him become even better.
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  9. #89
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by kako View Post
    Not a Duke analog, but I look at Williams and see Javale McGee in the NBA (GSW and LAL versions). Great hops, long arms for defense, runs the floor, alley-oops/lob dunks. But also hard to defend perimeter bigs that can move well, no long-range shooting and not bulky enough to consistently bang with wide-bodied post players. Put McGee in the right situation (with the right team and against the right team), and he went off for a double-double. Seems the same for Williams (just see the last 2 games). Williams does have a high ceiling. But if Duke makes a run and Williams shines, I suspect the lure of the draft may be heard due to that ceiling. FWIW, if Duke does make the tourney and even wins one game there, I'd bet more players than just Hurt will be early entry... which is the price for success at Duke*.

    9F

    * - It's great writing about potentially winning games in the NCAAT. This team was 7-8 not too long ago. This is why I don't stop believing!
    Maybe a better comp is DeAndre Jordan. McGee doesn't have a great basketball IQ. Mark does and shows a real knack for passing.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    Best Duke analog for Mark Williams? How about Marques Bolden with a motor?
    Not a Duke analog, but when I look for MW's ceiling, I see a lot of Joel Embiid.
    My Quick Smells Like French Toast.

  11. #91
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Channing View Post
    Not a Duke analog, but when I look for MW's ceiling, I see a lot of Joel Embiid.
    Williams doesn't have the skillset of Embiid. Doesn't shoot threes. Doesn't have an off the dribble game. Isn't nearly as strong (even freshman Embiid was a load).

  12. #92
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Chesapeake, VA.
    Quote Originally Posted by FerryFor50 View Post
    Maybe a better comp is DeAndre Jordan. McGee doesn't have a great basketball IQ. Mark does and shows a real knack for passing.
    This makes more sense. McGee has been on Shaqtin' a Fool one too many times.
    "We are not provided with wisdom, we must discover it for ourselves, after a journey through the wilderness which no one else can take for us, an effort which no one can spare us, for our wisdom is the point of view from which we come at last to regard the world." --M. Proust

  13. #93
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by rsvman View Post
    This makes more sense. McGee has been on Shaqtin' a Fool one too many times.
    Exactly.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-q-W_1TUVPE

  14. #94
    With the successful completion of last night's game, I would just like to reiterate my point from the game thread, that my family get at least some credit for their participation in this win. Not only was I able to successfully convince all three of my young children, and my wife, to watch the game with me, they were engaged, recognized the differences in defenses (thanks to my dinner table cucumber, spoon, and napkin diagramming), and one of them made me this flag, which I believe was the key to Duke's success: https://imgur.com/gallery/tvcjcSE

    I will do my best to keep this level of enthusiasm up for future games, though I'll probably switch from vegetables to a small whiteboard for future defensive alignment diagrams.

    Also - having my four-year-old explaining the zone defense to his older sisters was worth the grubby finger prints on the TV.

    That might have been the best basketball viewing experience I've had since Duke beat UNC in overtime behind Tre Jones (a game that my children stayed up to watch, and went from tired/disappointed to a frenzy, and finally trusted me when I told them "it isn't over yet.").

  15. #95
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by Edouble View Post
    I don't think so. I agree with a poster upthread who said Mark Williams's performance last night is what they'd always hoped to see from Casey Sanders.

    Harry Giles was advertised as the next Chris Webber. IMO, we saw flashes of that, but it was never a consistent product.
    williams it seems is beating Harry on the "working knees" count 2-0. Hate to see kids ultimately have promising careers stunted by bodies that couldn't hold up their end of the bargain. I mean, the only thing that stopped me from being zion williams was about 8" and 60 lbs of muscle.
    basketball is back, baby!

  16. #96

    Tale of Two Games

    I find it intriguing that in the Virginia game, Williams played only about 7 minutes; Brakefeld as his replacement, arguably was the Player of the game and made the winning basket, I think after a key block on Clark.

    In this game against Syracuse, Brakefeld was the one to play only seven minutes, even after his stellar performance against Virginia. In this game, of course, Williams was the one with the truly outstanding game.

    I guess the explanation given is that the different opponents required a different lineup, and Coach K made the right decision.

    One other comment about the game: Duke came back strong despite the short time after a Saturday game, unlike the Miami Monday night game in which Duke was flat. Could the explanation simply be that this time Duke was the home team? Here, Syracuse, just like Duke in Miami, had to travel so soon after the Saturday games.

  17. #97
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by korshmar View Post
    I find it intriguing that in the Virginia game, Williams played only about 7 minutes; Brakefeld as his replacement, arguably was the Player of the game and made the winning basket, I think after a key block on Clark.

    In this game against Syracuse, Brakefeld was the one to play only seven minutes, even after his stellar performance against Virginia. In this game, of course, Williams was the one with the truly outstanding game.

    I guess the explanation given is that the different opponents required a different lineup, and Coach K made the right decision.

    One other comment about the game: Duke came back strong despite the short time after a Saturday game, unlike the Miami Monday night game in which Duke was flat. Could the explanation simply be that this time Duke was the home team? Here, Syracuse, just like Duke in Miami, had to travel so soon after the Saturday games.
    K said not being forced to travel enabled Duke to break down Sunday's practice into two short segments, one at noon to break down the Virginia game and do some rehab and a later one around 5:30 to focus in on Syracuse. Then a brief run through Monday morning. So, yes some advantages to staying home.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by DukieInBrasil View Post
    MW- 18-11 & 2 blocks, DJ- 21 & 7 assists, JR- 14 & 7 assists : who wouldn't draft players with those numbers in the 1st Rd.?
    I don't know whether or not you're joking, but 1st team All Americans have gone undrafted.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    I don't know whether or not you're joking, but 1st team All Americans have gone undrafted.
    i certainly don't expect, though i can hope!, that aforementioned Freshmen produce said stats the rest of the way. As for whether i was joking and whether the NBA has left All-Americans off the draft board, i think that every team in the NBA would at least consider drafting any Fr. who averaged said stats over the last ~15 games of the season. I'm too lazy to look it up but i'd be willing to wager that un-drafted AAs were all Seniors, maybe a couple of Juniors.

  20. #100
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by DukieInBrasil View Post
    i certainly don't expect, though i can hope!, that aforementioned Freshmen produce said stats the rest of the way. As for whether i was joking and whether the NBA has left All-Americans off the draft board, i think that every team in the NBA would at least consider drafting any Fr. who averaged said stats over the last ~15 games of the season. I'm too lazy to look it up but i'd be willing to wager that un-drafted AAs were all Seniors, maybe a couple of Juniors.
    I disagree with this notion. NBA draft isn't all about stats. It's about measurables and potential as well.

    For example, DJ Steward is 6'2" which means teams wouldn't want him playing the SG position. However, Steward's game is pretty much what you'd expect from a SG. So he'd likely need to stay in school to showcase PG skills or he'd need to have elite level skills at SG, which I don't currently see from him as a freshman. He's been a good shooter from 3 (but not great - 35%), and not a great defender and isn't overly strong nor overly athletic. If he were to enter the draft today, he'd likely go undrafted, or 2nd round at best IMO.


    ESPN Draftnet has him at #80.
    https://www.espn.com/nba/draft/besta...ion/ovr/page/4

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