MBB: Duke 85, Syracuse 71 Post-Game Thread

[budwom]

I visited alchemist last time I was there and went through a couple cases of heady topper

Alchemist is still going strong, but be advised Hill Farmstead is having a temporary hiatus...should be operational again in the summer...lemme know if you have time for an executive lunch the next time you visit...

[devildeac]

my sister lives about 10 minutes away

May I place an order, please? If she'd stockpile a bit, I'll treat her (and you, of course) to a triple scoop of nearby Ben & Jerry's. (yea, better on the beer thread, but thread titles sometimes matter little, though some of us really are diligent WRT that "policy")

(shameless)

[arnie]

Missed this earlier and don’t have a link. Apparently Boeheim was again asked about Jalen Johnson and Bilas disagreement over Jim’s statements. Boeheim actually said he knows more than Bilas about basketball. Scary thought😀

[Acymetric]

Missed this earlier and don’t have a link. Apparently Boeheim was again asked about Jalen Johnson and Bilas disagreement over Jim’s statements. Boeheim actually said he knows more than Bilas about basketball. Scary thought��

I haven't been a fan of Jim ever since his whining about Greensboro and his general anti-ACC-ness, and don't think he acquitted himself very well with his statements on Johnson (no reason for him to be commenting on the situation at all). Having said that, show me the lie here.

[uh_no]

Missed this earlier and don’t have a link. Apparently Boeheim was again asked about Jalen Johnson and Bilas disagreement over Jim’s statements. Boeheim actually said he knows more than Bilas about basketball. Scary thought😀

Honestly, both of them need to stop being petulant and stop engaging in a stupid pissing match. I'm not holding my breath.

[Indoor66]

Bilas needs to stay in his lane.

[Edouble]

Bilas needs to stay in his lane.

Agree. Boeheim has earned the right to talk about a non-Duke, non-college player. What he said was pretty benign, and for the fact of the matter, true.

[budwom]

Someone asked me yesterday what announcers I DO like listening to, after mentioning how well I enjoyed the game with the mute button activated...which got me thinking...I enjoy listening to knowledgeable guys talking about the game at hand, for example Tony Romo sticks to the game and analyzes it well, same for Collingsworth.

Somehow, ESPN has, over the years, cultivated a culture of entertainment (I do realize they're the Entertainment and Sports Programming Network)...every guy reading a score on Sports Center has his own schtick. Vitale often ignores the game he's covering...

I rewatched some of the Syracuse game and listened to the audio...and the amount of time Bilas and Shulman spent jabbering about Jalen Johnson was just ridiculous. Pretty obvious I enjoy the games better without them (I think Shulman can be pretty good, but he went down the rabbit hole with Bilas on this occasion).

This is the time of year when I enjoy watching college lacrosse on TV, and ESPN's coverage of that particular sport, with Kessenich et al, is really really good.

[DukieInKansas]

Someone asked me yesterday what announcers I DO like listening to, after mentioning how well I enjoyed the game with the mute button activated...which got me thinking...I enjoy listening to knowledgeable guys talking about the game at hand, for example Tony Romo sticks to the game and analyzes it well, same for Collingsworth.

Somehow, ESPN has, over the years, cultivated a culture of entertainment (I do realize they're the Entertainment and Sports Programming Network)...every guy reading a score on Sports Center has his own schtick. Vitale often ignores the game he's covering...

I rewatched some of the Syracuse game and listened to the audio...and the amount of time Bilas and Shulman spent jabbering about Jalen Johnson was just ridiculous. Pretty obvious I enjoy the games better without them (I think Shulman can be pretty good, but he went down the rabbit hole with Bilas on this occasion).

This is the time of year when I enjoy watching college lacrosse on TV, and ESPN's coverage of that particular sport, with Kessenich et al, is really really good.

But the Entertainment portion should just pertain to hot dog eating contests, axe throwing, and corn hole championship. Basketball, football, baseball, etc. need to stay in the Sports lane.

[BlueDevilStop]

Mark Williams had his best game of the season against Syracuse, and he has played a large role in redefining Duke's season.

Looking back at his meteoric rise up the high school recruiting ranks and why his rapid ascent this season should come as no surprise. Plus, what it means for Duke.

https://bluedevilstop.com/the-emerge...-dukes-season/

[throatybeard]

Bilas needs to stay in his lane.

Yes, and that's whining about the officials like a more composed John McEnroe.

[Tooold]

Missed this earlier and don’t have a link. Apparently Boeheim was again asked about Jalen Johnson and Bilas disagreement over Jim’s statements. Boeheim actually said he knows more than Bilas about basketball. Scary thought😀

Haha...I loved the part during Bilas’ rant when, just as Bilas was preaching that no one can say that Duke is better without Jalen, they showed the graphic with the actual records, with and without Jalen. Guess what...

[Rich]

Haha...I loved the part during Bilas’ rant when, just as Bilas was preaching that no one can say that Duke is better without Jalen, they showed the graphic with the actual records, with and without Jalen. Guess what...

I'll be the contrarian here, but Bilas is consistently the defender of players and players' rights. He recognizes that they're kids and that they deserve more than what they get in light of the revenue they bring to the NCAA and their respective schools. You may not agree, but he's consistent. I have no problem with him taking a position against bashing an 18 year old for ruining a team's chemistry.

That being said, I agree it should not take over the game commentary, but I blame Schulman for asking the questions. I got the feeling that Jay didn't want to get into it, but Schulman kept bringing it up and peppering Jay with questions.

[mkirsh]

I'll be the contrarian here, but Bilas is consistently the defender of players and players' rights. He recognizes that they're kids and that they deserve more than what they get in light of the revenue they bring to the NCAA and their respective schools. You may not agree, but he's consistent. I have no problem with him taking a position against bashing an 18 year old for ruining a team's chemistry.

That being said, I agree it should not take over the game commentary, but I blame Schulman for asking the questions. I got the feeling that Jay didn't want to get into it, but Schulman kept bringing it up and peppering Jay with questions.

As tired as we all are about the Jalen talk, given Boeheim's comments over the weekend, Bilas and Schulman had to address it in some way. Now Bilas didn't need to make himself part of the story, and they could have been much more concise, but those comments are a big part of the "narrative" around Monday's game to the average Big Monday viewer and it would have been odd for them to stay silent.

[tommy]

I'll be the contrarian here, but Bilas is consistently the defender of players and players' rights. He recognizes that they're kids and that they deserve more than what they get in light of the revenue they bring to the NCAA and their respective schools. You may not agree, but he's consistent. I have no problem with him taking a position against bashing an 18 year old for ruining a team's chemistry.

I have no problem with Bilas consistently standing up for players' rights and taking the individual and collective players' sides of things. But when it gets in the way of objective and reasonable commentary on what is going on on the floor, that's where I think he gets into trouble.

He didn't have to say "Jalen was hurting Duke" or "Jalen is a bad basketball player" or "Jalen was a bad influence on the Duke team" or anything like that. All he had to say, in order to still not bash the kid but also acknowledge what we are all seeing on the court, is something like "It is undeniable that Duke is playing its best basketball in the games since Jalen Johnson left the team. That doesn't mean they're playing their best basketball because Jalen Johnson left the team. Maybe Jalen's absence changes something about what the team is or can do from a physical or gameplan perspective. Maybe it changes the atmosphere or chemistry on or off the court. Or maybe it's none of those things and this was an improving team that was going to continue to improve with or without Jalen Johnson. We just don't know. But let's acknowledge that this team is playing like a different basketball team over the last handful of games. Maybe it has something to do with Jalen Johnson leaving. Maybe it doesn't. I don't know and neither does anybody else with the exception of anybody in that Duke locker room."

[Acymetric]

I'll be the contrarian here, but Bilas is consistently the defender of players and players' rights. He recognizes that they're kids and that they deserve more than what they get in light of the revenue they bring to the NCAA and their respective schools. You may not agree, but he's consistent. I have no problem with him taking a position against bashing an 18 year old for ruining a team's chemistry.

That being said, I agree it should not take over the game commentary, but I blame Schulman for asking the questions. I got the feeling that Jay didn't want to get into it, but Schulman kept bringing it up and peppering Jay with questions.

Is that contrarian? I'm not seeing anyone say that it is inappropriate for Bilas to take that position (which is different from disagreeing with that position).

To your second point, there is 0 chance that exchange wasn't planned ahead of time. These guys aren't just showing up to games and winging it totally unscripted.

[Acymetric]

I have no problem with Bilas consistently standing up for players' rights and taking the individual and collective players' sides of things. But when it gets in the way of objective and reasonable commentary on what is going on on the floor, that's where I think he gets into trouble.

He didn't have to say "Jalen was hurting Duke" or "Jalen is a bad basketball player" or "Jalen was a bad influence on the Duke team" or anything like that. All he had to say, in order to still not bash the kid but also acknowledge what we are all seeing on the court, is something like "It is undeniable that Duke is playing its best basketball in the games since Jalen Johnson left the team. That doesn't mean they're playing their best basketball because Jalen Johnson left the team. Maybe Jalen's absence changes something about what the team is or can do from a physical or gameplan perspective. Maybe it changes the atmosphere or chemistry on or off the court. Or maybe it's none of those things and this was an improving team that was going to continue to improve with or without Jalen Johnson. We just don't know. But let's acknowledge that this team is playing like a different basketball team over the last handful of games. Maybe it has something to do with Jalen Johnson leaving. Maybe it doesn't. I don't know and neither does anybody else with the exception of anybody in that Duke locker room."

Jay tends to be so focused on being right that he has no problem making false, invalid, or misleading arguments to support his positions. It is particularly annoying because usually there are other perfectly valid and factually correct arguments that he could use instead. The way he presents his arguments even when they're good ones tends to make me wish he was wrong even when I actually agree with what he is saying.

[Native]

Somehow, ESPN has, over the years, cultivated a culture of entertainment (I do realize they're the Entertainment and Sports Programming Network)...every guy reading a score on Sports Center has his own schtick. Vitale often ignores the game he's covering...

ESPN is turning into the TMZ of sports.

[Tooold]

. I have no problem with him taking a position against bashing an 18 year old for ruining a team's chemistry.

You are right. I agree that it was fair (and commendable) for Bilas to take a stand against bashing an 18 year-old. But it was his own network that put up the graphic which, at that very moment, he was arguing against. That’s what I thought was funny. There is no disputing that Duke has had better success, and has seemed to play better, without Jalen. That could be coincidence, the competition, or the natural growth of the team. Without any statements from the coaches or the team, we will never know for sure what effect Jalen had on team chemistry. To the extent Bilas was saying we should let it go, he was right. But it was curious that he made such a definitive statement that Duke has NOT played better without Jalen when there was a graphic (not to mention the “eye test”) that said the opposite.

[szstark]

I have no problem with Bilas consistently standing up for players' rights and taking the individual and collective players' sides of things. But when it gets in the way of objective and reasonable commentary on what is going on on the floor, that's where I think he gets into trouble.

He didn't have to say "Jalen was hurting Duke" or "Jalen is a bad basketball player" or "Jalen was a bad influence on the Duke team" or anything like that. All he had to say, in order to still not bash the kid but also acknowledge what we are all seeing on the court, is something like "It is undeniable that Duke is playing its best basketball in the games since Jalen Johnson left the team. That doesn't mean they're playing their best basketball because Jalen Johnson left the team. Maybe Jalen's absence changes something about what the team is or can do from a physical or gameplan perspective. Maybe it changes the atmosphere or chemistry on or off the court. Or maybe it's none of those things and this was an improving team that was going to continue to improve with or without Jalen Johnson. We just don't know. But let's acknowledge that this team is playing like a different basketball team over the last handful of games. Maybe it has something to do with Jalen Johnson leaving. Maybe it doesn't. I don't know and neither does anybody else with the exception of anybody in that Duke locker room."

Are those actual quotes? The only thing I personally heard him say was that you can’t credit Duke’s improved play entirely on Johnson’s departure. That was his problem with Boeheim’s comments and it seems to contradict what you are quoting.