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  1. #21
    Sporked him, as well. Great post.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Western Maryland
    Quote Originally Posted by johnb View Post
    It’s brave to discuss one’s own mental illness in public. Even fans of one’s own school might attack one for trying to do one’s life’s work with a history of mental illness (grrr). I was never a close observer of the women’s team, but her coaching difficulties at Duke are well Chronicled, as it were, and those tidbits are old news.

    The actual news is:
    1. McCallie performed at a high level with bipolar disorder. Did she succeed at the level of Coach G (or Coach K)? Nope, but neither have I. Kudos.
    2. The treatment was successful. “Treatment” would presumably include meds as well as various behavioral and insight-oriented interventions. These might include “social rhythm” therapy that would include getting enough sleep—which would be a real challenge for a Duke coach. Having a psychosocial team (friends/family) is really important, and public shaming tends to limit the ability to develop such a team.
    3. The first episode occurred after her first child. Post-partum mood issues are classic for bipolar disorder.
    4. I don’t know how her level of insight developed. Bipolar disorder is associated with initially poor insight, partly because mania (especially hypomania) feels better than depression. This can lead to non adherence with bipolar meds such as lithium or depakote, and worsening cycles. Sounds like she hopped on the adherence train quickly, which is impressive.
    5. I’d be curious if depression/dysphoria/edginess contributed to the interpersonal issues she seems to have had. Bipolar depression is more difficult to treat, generally, than bipolar mania.
    6. One can argue about whether she “should” have revealed her diagnosis at Maine. The argument has been decided in the courts (she doesn’t owe an explanation as long as it doesn’t affect her work), but feel free to argue (though one should probably footnote your argument by clarifying that you know you’re wrong). On that note, I’m waiting for other coaches (and the rest of us) to publicly reveal their own issues with alcohol, marijuana, relationships, bad hips, self righteousness, job dissatisfaction, cognitive decline, sex addiction, sociopathy, narcissism, etc.
    Thank you for this. It was said more elegantly than I could, but sums up the news and my thoughts very well. I'm just chiming in so folks know there are many of us that feel similarly.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    I gotta re-use John B.'s off-hand remark:

    "...but feel free to argue (though one should probably footnote your argument by clarifying that you know you’re wrong)..."
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by johnb View Post
    It’s brave to discuss one’s own mental illness in public. Even fans of one’s own school might attack one for trying to do one’s life’s work with a history of mental illness (grrr). I was never a close observer of the women’s team, but her coaching difficulties at Duke are well Chronicled, as it were, and those tidbits are old news.

    The actual news is:
    1. McCallie performed at a high level with bipolar disorder. Did she succeed at the level of Coach G (or Coach K)? Nope, but neither have I. Kudos.
    2. The treatment was successful. “Treatment” would presumably include meds as well as various behavioral and insight-oriented interventions. These might include “social rhythm” therapy that would include getting enough sleep—which would be a real challenge for a Duke coach. Having a psychosocial team (friends/family) is really important, and public shaming tends to limit the ability to develop such a team.
    3. The first episode occurred after her first child. Post-partum mood issues are classic for bipolar disorder.
    4. I don’t know how her level of insight developed. Bipolar disorder is associated with initially poor insight, partly because mania (especially hypomania) feels better than depression. This can lead to non adherence with bipolar meds such as lithium or depakote, and worsening cycles. Sounds like she hopped on the adherence train quickly, which is impressive.
    5. I’d be curious if depression/dysphoria/edginess contributed to the interpersonal issues she seems to have had. Bipolar depression is more difficult to treat, generally, than bipolar mania.
    6. One can argue about whether she “should” have revealed her diagnosis at Maine. The argument has been decided in the courts (she doesn’t owe an explanation as long as it doesn’t affect her work), but feel free to argue (though one should probably footnote your argument by clarifying that you know you’re wrong). On that note, I’m waiting for other coaches (and the rest of us) to publicly reveal their own issues with alcohol, marijuana, relationships, bad hips, self righteousness, job dissatisfaction, cognitive decline, sex addiction, sociopathy, narcissism, etc.
    I like some of the points you raise, although I find item six to be a bit sanctimonious and the whole post seems to be mainly based on general knowledge and/or opinion. So just out of curiosity, what's your actual answer to the OP's question? Have you read the book? Have you seen any commentary from former players or others in position to know anything out of personal experience? This thread has devolved into on ongoing commentary by people who aren't in the affected region. I'm truly interested in knowing if there are any with first-hand experience who have read it or commented on it.

    Personally, I've avoided posting here, because I'm not in that group, either. But I'd really like to hear from someone who is, even if all they say is, "I don't want to talk about it."

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Outside Philly
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    I gotta re-use John B.'s off-hand remark:

    "...but feel free to argue (though one should probably footnote your argument by clarifying that you know you’re wrong)..."
    Yeah, I'm definitely stowing this one away for later use. It was great.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    New York, NY
    Quote Originally Posted by MChambers View Post
    Surprisingly, because I've sporked him for other fine posts, I was able to spork johnb today.
    Thanks, guys. I don’t get out much these days, and it’s great to be connected with everybody, even if I wouldn’t recognize any of you without your dbr handle! Though, as I think about it, I now know my f2f friends mainly by their eyebrows poking out above their masks.
    Last edited by johnb; 02-22-2021 at 09:02 PM.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    New York, NY
    Quote Originally Posted by Phredd3 View Post
    I like some of the points you raise, although I find item six to be a bit sanctimonious and the whole post seems to be mainly based on general knowledge and/or opinion. So just out of curiosity, what's your actual answer to the OP's question? Have you read the book? Have you seen any commentary from former players or others in position to know anything out of personal experience? This thread has devolved into on ongoing commentary by people who aren't in the affected region. I'm truly interested in knowing if there are any with first-hand experience who have read it or commented on it.

    Personally, I've avoided posting here, because I'm not in that group, either. But I'd really like to hear from someone who is, even if all they say is, "I don't want to talk about it."
    Oh, I hope I didn’t imply I was above sanctimony. It’s one of my favorites, along with acrimony, ceremony, and palimony.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    raleigh
    You must spread some Comments around before commenting on johnb again.



    Quote Originally Posted by johnb View Post
    It’s brave to discuss one’s own mental illness in public. Even fans of one’s own school might attack one for trying to do one’s life’s work with a history of mental illness (grrr). I was never a close observer of the women’s team, but her coaching difficulties at Duke are well Chronicled, as it were, and those tidbits are old news.

    The actual news is:
    1. McCallie performed at a high level with bipolar disorder. Did she succeed at the level of Coach G (or Coach K)? Nope, but neither have I. Kudos.
    2. The treatment was successful. “Treatment” would presumably include meds as well as various behavioral and insight-oriented interventions. These might include “social rhythm” therapy that would include getting enough sleep—which would be a real challenge for a Duke coach. Having a psychosocial team (friends/family) is really important, and public shaming tends to limit the ability to develop such a team.
    3. The first episode occurred after her first child. Post-partum mood issues are classic for bipolar disorder.
    4. I don’t know how her level of insight developed. Bipolar disorder is associated with initially poor insight, partly because mania (especially hypomania) feels better than depression. This can lead to non adherence with bipolar meds such as lithium or depakote, and worsening cycles. Sounds like she hopped on the adherence train quickly, which is impressive.
    5. I’d be curious if depression/dysphoria/edginess contributed to the interpersonal issues she seems to have had. Bipolar depression is more difficult to treat, generally, than bipolar mania.
    6. One can argue about whether she “should” have revealed her diagnosis at Maine. The argument has been decided in the courts (she doesn’t owe an explanation as long as it doesn’t affect her work), but feel free to argue (though one should probably footnote your argument by clarifying that you know you’re wrong). On that note, I’m waiting for other coaches (and the rest of us) to publicly reveal their own issues with alcohol, marijuana, relationships, bad hips, self righteousness, job dissatisfaction, cognitive decline, sex addiction, sociopathy, narcissism, etc.
    "Either they're going down, or we are! Kirk out!"

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Skinker-DeBaliviere, Saint Louis
    Quote Originally Posted by johnb View Post
    It’s brave to discuss one’s own mental illness in public. Even fans of one’s own school might attack one for trying to do one’s life’s work with a history of mental illness (grrr). I was never a close observer of the women’s team, but her coaching difficulties at Duke are well Chronicled, as it were, and those tidbits are old news.

    The actual news is:
    1. McCallie performed at a high level with bipolar disorder. Did she succeed at the level of Coach G (or Coach K)? Nope, but neither have I. Kudos.
    2. The treatment was successful. “Treatment” would presumably include meds as well as various behavioral and insight-oriented interventions. These might include “social rhythm” therapy that would include getting enough sleep—which would be a real challenge for a Duke coach. Having a psychosocial team (friends/family) is really important, and public shaming tends to limit the ability to develop such a team.
    3. The first episode occurred after her first child. Post-partum mood issues are classic for bipolar disorder.
    4. I don’t know how her level of insight developed. Bipolar disorder is associated with initially poor insight, partly because mania (especially hypomania) feels better than depression. This can lead to non adherence with bipolar meds such as lithium or depakote, and worsening cycles. Sounds like she hopped on the adherence train quickly, which is impressive.
    5. I’d be curious if depression/dysphoria/edginess contributed to the interpersonal issues she seems to have had. Bipolar depression is more difficult to treat, generally, than bipolar mania.
    6. One can argue about whether she “should” have revealed her diagnosis at Maine. The argument has been decided in the courts (she doesn’t owe an explanation as long as it doesn’t affect her work), but feel free to argue (though one should probably footnote your argument by clarifying that you know you’re wrong). On that note, I’m waiting for other coaches (and the rest of us) to publicly reveal their own issues with alcohol, marijuana, relationships, bad hips, self righteousness, job dissatisfaction, cognitive decline, sex addiction, sociopathy, narcissism, etc.

    Fantastic post.

    As for me, I'll just agree with what I said in post #2.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by bluedevilsince72 View Post
    Have any of her former players commented?
    Joanne P. McCallie's GMA interview was on February 17, 2021.

    The following players publicly commented (via Twitter) on February 17, 2021:

    Faith Suggs:
    CaptureJPM1.jpg

    Kendall Cooper:
    CaptureJPM2.jpg

    Ka'Lia Johnson ("liked" by Elizabeth Williams and Kendall Cooper):
    CaptureJPM3.jpg

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by CamrnCrz1974 View Post
    Joanne P. McCallie's GMA interview was on February 17, 2021.

    The following players publicly commented (via Twitter) on February 17, 2021:
    Don't worry, I'm sure it won't take long before some posters here will be telling us these girls are either ill-informed or insensitive. Or perhaps both.

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    I moved. Now 12 miles from Heaven, 13 from Hell
    CC1974, thanks for the Twitter tweets (I don’t typically look for them.)

    If I remember correctly, Elizabeth, Kendall and Ka’lia played before the. Internal investigation, and Faith after. Their comments seem to reflect that Coach P was
    “better” after the investigation (although wasn’t Ka’lia on staff last year?)

    Does this match your memories/information.

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDukie View Post
    Don't worry, I'm sure it won't take long before some posters here will be telling us these girls are either ill-informed or insensitive. Or perhaps both.
    Mental health diseases are brutal for everyone involved.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    Mental health diseases are brutal for everyone involved.
    Agreed.

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    Mental health diseases are brutal for everyone involved.
    100% true, but they also aren't a get out of jail free card for bad behavior. You can simultaneously deserve compassion for your illness and criticism/condemnation for your bad actions (and it isn't necessarily true that the two are even linked, you can be mentally ill and a jerk independantly).

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Acymetric View Post
    100% true, but they also aren't a get out of jail free card for bad behavior. You can simultaneously deserve compassion for your illness and criticism/condemnation for your bad actions.
    I also agree with this, which more accurately describes the intent of my earlier post.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    Mental health diseases are brutal for everyone involved.
    This is true.

    And it seems to still be true no one has read the book this thread purports to discuss.

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    And it seems to still be true no one has read the book this thread purports to discuss.
    In fairness, do you want to buy a copy? The tweets were the most enlightening thing about the thread, IMO, but I'm not sure a mountain of them would convince me to buy the book.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Phredd3 View Post
    In fairness, do you want to buy a copy? The tweets were the most enlightening thing about the thread, IMO, but I'm not sure a mountain of them would convince me to buy the book.
    Honestly, yes I would read it. I have someone in my close family with similar issues. I do know I am in the minority in being interested in it.

    The original post said "has anyone read it and have any players commented?" Lots of folks offered their opinions independent of those two questions, some made jokes, others weighed in.

    Then, one person did actually find players Tweets.

    In other words, people seem to have lots of opinions on mental health regardless of having read her story. Myself included, to be fair.

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    raleigh
    i am currently recording her audio book....i'd buy it....
    "Either they're going down, or we are! Kirk out!"

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