Coach K Succession discussion

[Acymetric]

I'll be honest, I just don't think Quinn would be interested.

[Steven43]

I hear you. Jason makes a solid case for Quin. I wonder, though, if he were hired, how that would land with Jon and Nate (as well as Capel, Wojo, Collins etc.) who have been directly contributing to Duke's success as coaches over the last generation, learning patiently at the knee of the master, and whether they may feel like Quin was being jumped to the front of the line . . .

I think the Duke AD would be making a huge mistake were he/she to factor into the hiring process what the current and former assistants may or may not think of it.

The head coach of Duke Basketball is perhaps the premier coaching position in all of college basketball. You get the guy who you think is best for the job and let the chips fall where they may.

No former Duke player or coach is as highly-regarded in the coaching community as is Quin Snyder. As far as I’m concerned he has all of the qualifications one could possibly need to lead the Duke program and continue the legacy of greatness Coach K has built.

Plus, he has great hair, so there’s that too. What more does one need if you’ve got the qualifications AND the hair? 😉

[sagegrouse]

Coach K will make the retirement decision or it will be made for him due to ill health. Let's hope it's not the latter circumstance. Once a new coach comes in, it will become his program and he will be free to mold the program in his own way. It may be different than Coach K's approach but will no doubt be competitive in the upper echelon of college basketball.

Let me add my strong opinion aimed at Coach K -- don't do what Dean and Big John Thompson did. Don't quit either just before or at the beginning of the season so the school has little choice but to give the job as a reward to a long-serving assistant -- Bill Guthridge and Craig Esherick. Both had some success, but neither was the right choice.

K needs to plan his retirement in order to give Duke time to make a proper choice. (Duke always says, for every important vacancy, "We will do a nationwide search to find the best candidate.")

Kindly,
Sage Grouse
'Yes, I recognize that fate intervenes"

[tommy]

I think the Duke AD would be making a huge mistake were he/she to factor into the hiring process what the current and former assistants may or may not think of it.

The head coach of Duke Basketball is perhaps the premier coaching position in all of college basketball. You get the guy who you think is best for the job and let the chips fall where they may.

No former Duke player or coach is as highly-regarded in the coaching community as is Quin Snyder. As far as I’m concerned he has all of the qualifications one could possibly need to lead the Duke program and continue the legacy of greatness Coach K has built.

Plus, he has great hair, so there’s that too. What more does one need if you’ve got the qualifications AND the hair? 😉

I agree. Best person for the job. Obviously K will have a big say in who gets this job and I'd be surprised if Quinn was his top choice, not because he wouldn't be excellent but because he hasn't been involved in the program for so long.

If it comes down to hair, I agree. Quinn, with assistant coaches Justise Winslow and Quinn Cook if their playing days were to be done . . . And Alex O'Connell need not apply.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Yeah, the questions really come down to "when exactly will Coach K retire?" and "how interested is Snyder in going back to the college ranks?" The coaching lifestyle in the NBA is certainly easier than the lifestyle in college, especially if you're talking about a blue blood program like Duke. So it's not a given that Snyder would want to take the job even if it was offered.

But I agree with Jason and sage that Snyder would seem a reasonable target, even if he is approaching 60 by the time he takes the job. And worth noting that, even at 60, he could very well still coach for 15 years if he so desired. So it's not like that would be a bad hire simply due to age. He could quite easily shepherd the program into a subsequent generation if he was successful.

Maybe I'm not understanding this, but why would a high profile, successful NBA coach drop down to coach a college blue blood? Given both you and Jason seem to believe this is a possibility, I'm curious.

From my perspective, there isn't a snowball's chance in hell this happens given the trajectory of Synder.

a) Quin Snyder is highly successful at Utah. In the last four seasons, Quin has gone to the playoffs in the heated West. Unlike the Clippers, Lakers, Rockets, etc, Quin never had an offensive dynamo in his prime. Yes, he has the best defensive player. Yes, he has Mitchell who can easily be a top 10 player in a few years. And right now, Snyder has the Jazz as the top team in the NBA!

b) High profile coaches don't go from the NBA to college. Successful coaches, especially ones who are currently successful, don't from professional to amateur. One of the only examples I can think of is Nick Saban, but he was a 9-7 in his first year and 10-6 in his second year. He didn't take the Dolphns to the playoffs in either year. That's not exactly lighting the league on fire. Now, I understand there are reasons to go to the college level (emotional attachment to alma mater, better choice of location to live, less risky to perform at the highest level, etc). But overall, why take a position that has less exposure and likely pays less?

c) For this to happen, the Jazz need to implode and Coach K needs to retire at the same time. Snyder will the coach unless he underperforms in the playoffs. And if he does, he will be rehired by another franchise in a heartbeat. Look at Billy Donovan as a solid comp, and I'd argue Snyder is a much better coach.

[sagegrouse]

I agree. Best person for the job. Obviously K will have a big say in who gets this job and I'd be surprised if Quinn was his top choice, not because he wouldn't be excellent but because he hasn't been involved in the program for so long.

If it comes down to hair, I agree. Quinn, with assistant coaches Justise Winslow and Quinn Cook if their playing days were to be done . . . And Alex O'Connell need not apply.

I dunno. Quin was K's first placement at a power-five school -- Snyder went to Mizzou in 1999. Brey, who was recruited to the Duke staff from DeMatha, went to Delaware in 1995 and then on to Notre Dame in 2000 (replacing Matt Doherty - hah!). Quin also graduated from Duke three times -- undergrad 1989, Duke Law and Duke Fuqua MBA in 1995

[flyingdutchdevil]

I'll be honest, I just don't think Quinn would be interested.

Quinn would definitely be interested. Quin will likely not be interested.

[azzefkram]

I'd be somewhat surprised if a coach who's never run his own program gets the nod. I'd be even more surprised if Quinn left the NBA for Duke.

[Steven43]

Maybe I'm not understanding this, but why would a high profile, successful NBA coach drop down to coach a college blue blood? Given both you and Jason seem to believe this is a possibility, I'm curious.

From my perspective, there isn't a snowball's chance in hell this happens given the trajectory of Synder.

a) Quin Snyder is highly successful at Utah. In the last four seasons, Quin has gone to the playoffs in the heated West. Unlike the Clippers, Lakers, Rockets, etc, Quin never had an offensive dynamo in his prime. Yes, he has the best defensive player. Yes, he has Mitchell who can easily be a top 10 player in a few years. And right now, Snyder has the Jazz as the top team in the NBA!

b) High profile coaches don't go from the NBA to college. Successful coaches, especially ones who are currently successful, don't from professional to amateur. One of the only examples I can think of is Nick Saban, but he was a 9-7 in his first year and 10-6 in his second year. He didn't take the Dolphns to the playoffs in either year. That's not exactly lighting the league on fire. Now, I understand there are reasons to go to the college level (emotional attachment to alma mater, better choice of location to live, less risky to perform at the highest level, etc). But overall, why take a position that has less exposure and likely pays less?

c) For this to happen, the Jazz need to implode and Coach K needs to retire at the same time. Snyder will the coach unless he underperforms in the playoffs. And if he does, he will be rehired by another franchise in a heartbeat. Look at Billy Donovan as a solid comp, and I'd argue Snyder is a much better coach.

What happened the last time Coach K retired so that we could at least have some evidence to go on as to what happens after Coach K leaves Duke? Oh that’s right, he has never retired so there is no way to know what any coach — college or pro — would do if offered the Duke job after K leaves.

You can’t compare any other situation to this one; it is unique. Coach K has built Duke Basketball into the premier college program over the last four decades. How do we know that at this point in time the Duke job is not considered superior to most of the head coaching jobs in the NBA?

By the way, Quin Snyder currently makes $2 million per year to coach in the vaunted NBA. Coach K makes $9 million per season at Duke. The money says the Duke job is vastly more valuable.

[budwom]

Kevin White isn't entirely stupid, he pulled the rip cord before he has to deal with The Succession or the football situation. Let someone else deal with it.

[CDu]

Yeah, to be clear, I am not at all convinced Snyder would want to step down from the NBA to college. IF he was interested, I think he would be a good candidate. But it seems questionable as to whether he would be interested in a job that causes him to work harder and probably get less appreciation for those efforts.

[sagegrouse]

I'd be somewhat surprised if a coach who's never run his own program gets the nod. I'd be even more surprised if Quinn left the NBA for Duke.

Q-U-I-N. If you are successful at a premier college hoops program, you are king and can stay forever. Current examples who ain't going anywhere except to retirement are K, Roy, Cal, Boeheim, Self, and Tony Bennett

In the NBA, as Pat Riley once said, "After a few years, the players stop listening to you, and it's time to move on." Then there are GMs and owners, who change from time to time and have their own ideas about how to run the team.

[DU82]

Quinn would definitely be interested. Quin will likely not be interested.

I don't see why Scheyer is a better choice than Nate Janes

I think he’s considered the top assistant. He was the one tabbed to coach the BC game when K had to sit out.

[flyingdutchdevil]

What happened the last time Coach K retired so that we could at least have some evidence to go on as to what happens after Coach K leaves Duke? Oh that’s right, he has never retired so there is no way to know what any coach — college or pro — would do if offered the Duke job after K leaves.

You can’t compare any other situation to this one; it is unique. Coach K has built Duke Basketball into the premier college program over the last four decades. How do we know that the Duke job at this point in time is not considered superior to most of the head coaching jobs in the NBA?

By the way, Quin Snyder currently makes $2 million per year to coach in the vaunted NBA. Coach K makes $9 million per season at Duke. The money says the Duke job is vastly more valuable.

UNC. UK. KU. All successful blue chippers with extensive coaching trees in college and the NBA. And none hired a successful NBA coach. Can you think of a successful NBA coach who said, "eff it, I'm gonna leave the NBA for college!" As much as we all love college ball, the NBA is just much more prestigious.

And as for salary, you think Snyder is going to get anywhere near $9M as a first year college coach? And let's compare apples to apples: Gregg Popovich makes $11M.

[DU82]

I hear you. Jason makes a solid case for Quin. I wonder, though, if he were hired, how that would land with Jon and Nate (as well as Capel, Wojo, Collins etc.) who have been directly contributing to Duke's success as coaches over the last generation, learning patiently at the knee of the master, and whether they may feel like Quin was being jumped to the front of the line . . .

Quin was on the Duke sidelines before either of them; he certainly has contributed to Duke’s success as a coach. IIRC, has was an assistant when Nate and Chris enrolled (probably had a role in recruiting them.)

[Steven43]

Yeah, to be clear, I am not at all convinced Snyder would want to step down from the NBA to college. IF he was interested, I think he would be a good candidate. But it seems questionable as to whether he would be interested in a job that causes him to work harder and probably get less appreciation for those efforts.

I don’t know it the Duke job is harder than the NBA jobs. You have to play 82 effing regular season games in the NBA plus potentially the playoffs as well — and if you are successful those playoffs go on for a long long time. Oh, and there are preseason games too.

Travel is HARD, as is getting physically and emotionally up for 100 games per season.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

I dunno. Quin was K's first placement at a power-five school -- Snyder went to Mizzou in 1999. Brey, who was recruited to the Duke staff from DeMatha, went to Delaware in 1995 and then on to Notre Dame in 2000 (replacing Matt Doherty - hah!). Quin also graduated from Duke three times -- undergrad 1989, Duke Law and Duke Fuqua MBA in 1995

I will asterisk that by saying that Amaker went to Seton Hall in 1997. As things are defined now, Seton Hall is not "power five" but the Big East, particularly back then, was every bit as prestigious for basketball as the power five. And I will asterisk that point by admitting that I am a lifelong Seton Hall fan and former season ticket holder, but I don't think my bias applies here. Not that it is critical to the discussion regarding Quin's qualifications.

I'm not sure if Quin has been a big "brotherhood" guy. He obviously has his plate full with his current job and being on the far side of the country. Does he come back for K Academy and the like? He is obviously as Duke blue as they get with three degrees and having also been an assistant. And I would absolutely love to have him at Duke.

He is also a very smart guy and though Duke pays more, he has plenty of money and might not want to leave a good job to go into a job that some might be considered being set up to fail.

[CDu]

I don’t know it the Duke job is harder than the NBA jobs. You have to play 82 effing regular season games in the NBA plus potentially the playoffs as well — and if you are successful those playoffs go on for a long long time. Oh, and there are preseason games too.

Travel is HARD, as is getting physically and emotionally up for 100 games per season.

But you don’t have to recruit (a year-round chore), you don’t have to worry about making sure your program is clean, you don’t have to suffer through nearly as much practice, and you generally don’t have to teach kids how to play year after year.

The length of the season is clearly worse. But the job over the course of the year is probably easier.

[flyingdutchdevil]

But you don’t have to recruit (a year-round chore), you don’t have to worry about making sure your program is clean, you don’t have to suffer through nearly as much practice, and you generally don’t have to teach kids how to play year after year.

The length of the season is clearly worse. But the job over the course of the year is probably easier.

Another way of saying this is a college coach plays both GM and coach. An NBA coach usually just plays coach (unless they are power hungry).

[Acymetric]

"After a few years, the players stop listening to you, and it's time to move on."

That little nugget of wisdom would probably hit a little harder if it wasn't coming from a guy who only coached 3 teams over a span of 27 years. There is enough turnover on NBA rosters that it doesn't even make sense to begin with.

Another way of saying this is a college coach plays both GM and coach. An NBA coach usually just plays coach (unless they are power hungry).

Being an NBA GM and being a college recruiter aren't really comparable.*

*ETA: I think being a college recruiter is worse, if that wasn't clear.