MBB: Notre Dame 93, Duke 89 Post Game Thread

[dukelifer]

The pandemic obviously matters, both in terms of disruptions to practice and prep and the lack of crowds and energy.

What it doesn’t effect is seeing this team — who has been playing and practicing consistently for more than a month (other than JJ with his foot injury) — showing no development. We’re making the same mistakes over and over again. There’s no evidence we’re learning from what happened last week or the week before. Pandemic shouldn’t effect that — at least in our instance where there’s been 6 weeks with no COVID interruption.

I don’t disagree but I think this is a crazy unusual year and for a crazy young Duke team. Very hard to compare

[DCDevil9194]

I'll also say you develop characteristics and habits that are hard to break. Losing is contagious, you just get used to it, and you begin to expect it. And next year, we will have a pretty full roster of kids who have been trained on how to lose. You don't just shake that off...

Please stop it. Yes, this team is struggling to win. But there is no reason to assume that this year will carry over to next. If anything, they may come out the other side of these struggles hungrier--no longer expecting to win, but learning how to play hard enough to win at this level. Remember Johnny Dawkins freshman year. That team was 11-17. By 1986, they won 37 games. Guess they figured out how to "shake it off."

[Dr. Maturin]

I've come to terms with the reality that this would not be a "good" team by Duke standards. What frustrates me is the lack of improvement. We all wanted to believe this team turned a corner against Clemson. How many thought we would lose the next 3?

It is worth noting that Duke has been pretty unlucky to lose so many close games. Right now, we rank #339 In KenPom's "luck" metric. In addition, teams are shooting 38.9% from 3 against Duke, which is by far the worst number in the KenPom era, which has stats going back to 1997. Some of that is attributable to bad defense, but I think a good chunk of that is bad luck too.

[Bob Green]

I don’t think he’s going to be in the G league.

Perhaps I went a bridge too far but I was on a roll.

[BlueDevilStop]

Recap and observations from a night where Duke hit a new low on the season.

https://bluedevilstop.com/duke-falls...ng-early-lead/

[Chicago 1995]

Good players make their teammates better. Johnson isn’t good. At this point, he is a liability. He will be off to the NBA (G-league) soon so time to move on.

With all due respect Bob, this is a team full of guys that are “liabilities” in one way or another. Johnson’s not living up to to the expectations we have of one-and-done players at Duke, and he seems to be getting beat up here pretty badly for it, moreso than anyone else. This team’s not going to the tourney, but the growth and success of this team rides more on figuring out how to use Johnson — one and done or not — than anyone else. I’d note that we’ve not used Johnson very much in the role projected for him I — which is a point forward. They way he is pressing and struggling right now, I get not being super enthused about that, but would it really be any worse than what we’re doing now?

I don’t think he’s playing well and I get everyone’s frustrations. I’m just not kicking him aside right now. He’s going through the hardest basketball stretch of his life in the weirdest year of college basketball ever. It’s not working right now, but that’s not all on Jalen.

And I’ll bet you a beer that Johnson’s not a G-League guy.

[dukelifer]

I doubt any of us can remember a Duke team that flat lined so early in the year, showing little to no improvement in their style, execution, development, etc.. They've yet to develop an identity besides being trusted to lose close games down the stretch. That's truly been the only consistent thing they've done, is figured out how to not close games. I do think you have to ask, what buttons is K pushing and why aren't they working? Is it chemistry or just that this team doesn't really have the talent and athletic ability to win? There apparently isn't a light switch that is going to go on this year. This looks like a Pete Gaudet team. Hang around and then figure out a way to lose. They just don't have the persona it takes to win. If I were K, I'd hand the leadership over to Coleman. He seems to be the only player on the roster with the fire, charisma, communication skills, and tenacity to will his fellow teammates to win.

I'll also say you develop characteristics and habits that are hard to break. Losing is contagious, you just get used to it, and you begin to expect it. And next year, we will have a pretty full roster of kids who have been trained on how to lose. You don't just shake that off...

Yeah - no. Teams can get better.

[FerryFor50]

I've come to terms with the reality that this would not be a "good" team by Duke standards. What frustrates me is the lack of improvement. We all wanted to believe this team turned a corner against Clemson. How many thought we would lose the next 3?

It is worth noting that Duke has been pretty unlucky to lose so many close games. Right now, we rank #339 In KenPom's "luck" metric. In addition, teams are shooting 38.9% from 3 against Duke, which is by far the worst number in the KenPom era, which has stats going back to 1997. Some of that is attributable to bad defense, but I think a good chunk of that is bad luck too.

Yea a lot of people want to solely blame defense, but a lot of it is luck. I watch plenty of non-Duke ACC games where these same teams are bricking wide open 3s. A good defense minimizes those attempts, but you still have to be able to knock them down.

On the opposite side of the coin, how many wide open clutch threes has Duke missed this year? It’s not like many other ACC team defenses are great either.

What’s maddening is that you can tell this team has the talent to be better than this but it’s just not clicking for them - especially in a down ACC year.

[Bob Green]

And I’ll bet you a beer that Johnson’s not a G-League guy.

Yep, a bridge too far.

[CDu]

There is certainly some element of bad luck here. With under a minute, down 2 but with the ball in transition, Roach gets the ball on the wing and Ryan steps into at his path and dives, getting a charge call. Then, on the other end, Hubb decides to shoot a semi-contested 25-footer and drains it. Suddenly, we are down 5 with less than 40 seconds left. Against a good FT shooting team, that was basically the game.

That is bad luck. We get a bad call against us with a chance to tie, then they make a crazy 3 against solid defense. Toss in Baker’s missed wide open 3 for the late lead as well.

Now, there were lots of other opportunities missed along the way. But in a tight game, a couple of late breaks can turn the tide.

Ultimately, we have a team that isn’t good enough to take luck out of the equation, AND is catching a fair amount of bad luck.

[Pghdukie]

Throughout this thread, posters have been asking for Johnson to have a more active roll on offense. When (if ever) will he exert a little effort on DEFENSE ? I would like to see what his + - result was for this game. He has as much heart to play defense as, well I cant think of anyone worse.

[FerryFor50]

There is certainly some element of bad luck here. With under a minute, down 2 but with the ball in transition, Roach gets the ball on the wing and Ryan steps into at his path and dives, getting a charge call. Then, on the other end, Hubb decides to shoot a semi-contested 25-footer and drains it. Suddenly, we are down 5 with less than 40 seconds left. Against a good FT shooting team, that was basically the game.

That is bad luck. We get a bad call against us with a chance to tie, then they make a crazy 3 against solid defense.

Now, there were lots of other opportunities missed along the way. But in a tight game, a couple of late breaks can turn the tide.

Ultimately, we have a team that isn’t good enough to take luck out of the equation, AND is catching a fair amount of bad luck.

Go back a little further to the non-call on Durham plowing over Moore in the post with way more contact than what Ryan got. That was another bad call that resulted in points.

[Natty_B]

Throughout this thread, posters have been asking for Johnson to have a more active roll on offense. When (if ever) will he exert a little effort on DEFENSE ? I would like to see what his + - result was for this game. He has as much heart to play defense as, well I cant think of anyone worse.

It was -19.

[CDu]

Throughout this thread, posters have been asking for Johnson to have a more active roll on offense. When (if ever) will he exert a little effort on DEFENSE ? I would like to see what his + - result was for this game. He has as much heart to play defense as, well I cant think of anyone worse.

Johnson leads the team in blocks and defensive rebounds per game, and is second in steals per game. It isn’t lack of effort on defense. His awareness maybe isn’t great, but he is trying. You don’t lead the team in those stats with a lack of effort.

[DukieInBrasil]

What's the over-under on this team winning another game this year?

I stand by my comment from the previous game: Duke should be playing Henry Coleman 200 minutes per game.

[SouthernDukie]

What's the over-under on this team winning another game this year?

I stand by my comment from the previous game: Duke should be playing Henry Coleman 200 minutes per game.

I’m now thinking my .500 prediction was too generous. Sorry to say. But that’s probably the ceiling for this team now.

[soflabluedevil]

I understand what our issues are.

I just can't for the life of me understand how they persist. At least to this degree.

This team has talented players. To continue to lose is so surprising and so frustrating. Our defense was (yet again) pitiful.

At a time where there is not much to be happy or excited about, this season really is not helping.

I am at a loss at this point.

- Chillin

Good defense depends upon coaching and effort. Our guys give effort. We haven’t had a good defensive team in so long it’s tough to remember when. If it’s not coaching (which includes recruiting for D) what is it?

[CDu]

Go back a little further to the non-call on Durham plowing over Moore in the post with way more contact than what Ryan got. That was another bad call that resulted in points.

I am actually ok with the no-call on Durham’s post-up. That is a standard post move, and Moore was diving to try to draw the foul. But definitely more contact on that than the Roach/Ryannplay, and Ryan wasn’t in guarding position. If one is a no-call, the other has to be too.

[WHOneedsSOX]

Johnson leads the team in blocks and defensive rebounds per game, and is second in steals per game. It isn’t lack of effort on defense. His awareness maybe isn’t great, but he is trying. You don’t lead the team in those stats with a lack of effort.

Why isn't Johnson playing? Haven't watched lately due to being crazy busy at work. He's undoubtedly their most skilled player. He seems to play hard when I have watched. Why is he barely playing?

[CDu]

Why isn't Johnson playing? Haven't watched lately due to being crazy busy at work. He's undoubtedly their most skilled player. He seems to play hard when I have watched. Why is he barely playing?

I suspect it is a combination of lack of awareness of rotations on defense and bad decisionmaking on offense. But worth noting this was the first game healthy and not in foul trouble in which he didn’t play starter’s level minutes.