MBB: Notre Dame 93, Duke 89 Post Game Thread

[ChillinDuke]

I understand what our issues are.

I just can't for the life of me understand how they persist. At least to this degree.

This team has talented players. To continue to lose is so surprising and so frustrating. Our defense was (yet again) pitiful.

At a time where there is not much to be happy or excited about, this season really is not helping.

I am at a loss at this point.

- Chillin

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Good point; that streak is in dire jeopardy. We’re now playing out the string; just hope they keep their heads up and play with pride rest of the way.

I do wonder if Jalen continues to ride the bench and how that resonates.

According to Reddit, for the first time in 7,750 days, Duke has a losing record.

[dukelifer]

The announcers were saying that, too, but it isn’t true. It’s 12:02. The ONLY way we make the tourney this year is win the ACC Tourney, and the odds of that have to be 5% or less. This just is not a tournament team.

This is what a developing team looks like. Eventually there is a year where there is not enough talent to make up for youth- particularly on D. Team has been in every ACC game they have played- every one. But just cannot get wins

[Bob Green]

Even 1974...

Yuck. Year of the 17 seconds game.

[devilwood]

Discuss the game here.

Teams have habits. They develop or change habits over a season. This team's habits include: (1) unforced turnovers (throwing lazy passes, travels, throwing the ball away, etc.); (2) not defending threes; and (3) not blocking out. We are 15 games in, and these habits are not changing.

Some teams develop habits like execution, playing sound defense, defending threes, shooting free throws well, imposing their will on lesser teams, not committing silly fouls.

It may be harder to develop the best habits in 1 year or 2 years, especially if the years are pandemic-shortened or practice is pandemic-limited. Players do not have to be here, but they have to be somewhere, because the NBA rules basically force people to play in college for a year. Some are here for a year and do not particularly care to be here. We have not seen much of that, but you could judge for yourselves if we see that at all from anyone now.

I suppose we have done as well or better than anyone in the OAD era. Even the 2019 team was lucky not to be eliminated before the Regional Finals. Let's face it. Dawkins' son was not blocked out and easily could have scored at the buzzer. And they came in to the Sweet 16 weekend without being fully focused or poised. One player warmed up for the Sweet 16 game and then ended up not playing. It is hard to deal with the pressure and atmosphere when you have not ever seen it before. Some players are not as physically well developed after a year or two than they will be eventually. They can be taken advantage of as a result.

But this is the reality of the OAD era. How well it fits with the mission of a University to have players come for a cameo in Durham, enrolled as students for a brief time, could be a topic for another day.

[proelitedota]

Just some perspective there are no blue bloods that are doing well.

[jipops]

Forget the NCAAT, here's the streak you need to worry about: double digit win seasons. Even 1974, 1982 and 1983 kept that train rolling.

Yea, the ncaaT door slammed shut with Miami. Not even looking like this team can make the NIT. What you bring up is a very tall task.

Just way too much talent on this team to be struggling this much.

[Chicago 1995]

This is what a developing team looks like. Eventually there is a year where there is not enough talent to make up for youth- particularly on D. Team has been in every ACC game they have played- every one. But just cannot get wins

There are plenty of young teams that don’t make mistakes like this. Don’t continue to make the same mistakes. Youth is certainly part of our problem, but it isn’t the only problem. And I don’t think it’s even the primary problem.

[dukelifer]

Teams have habits. They develop or change habits over a season. This team's habits include: (1) unforced turnovers (throwing lazy passes, travels, throwing the ball away, etc.); (2) not defending threes; and (3) not blocking out. We are 15 games in, and these habits are not changing.

Some teams develop habits like execution, playing sound defense, defending threes, shooting free throws well, imposing their will on lesser teams, not committing silly fouls.

It may be harder to develop the best habits in 1 year or 2 years, especially if the years are pandemic-shortened or practice is pandemic-limited. Players do not have to be here, but they have to be somewhere, because the NBA rules basically force people to play in college for a year. Some are here for a year and do not particularly care to be here. We have not seen much of that, but you could judge for yourselves if we see that at all from anyone now.

I suppose we have done as well or better than anyone in the OAD era. Even the 2019 team was lucky not to be eliminated before the Regional Finals. Let's face it. Dawkins' son was not blocked out and easily could have scored at the buzzer. And they came in to the Sweet 16 weekend without being fully focused or poised. One player warmed up for the Sweet 16 game and then ended up not playing. It is hard to deal with the pressure and atmosphere when you have not ever seen it before. Some players are not as physically well developed after a year or two than they will be eventually. They can be taken advantage of as a result.

But this is the reality of the OAD era. How well it fits with the mission of a University to have players come for a cameo in Durham, enrolled as students for a brief time, could be a topic for another day.

It is only a matter of time when you have to recruit guys to stick around. I think Duke did that this year. This team should be markedly better next season. As fans we just have to accept the losses to come.

[gofurman]

Basically a statistical dead heat save for free throws...they go 18-20 and we go 7-8. We outrebounded them by a little.

In a game where neither team could defend, Brey made the adjustment to go zone with about 9 to go and it slowed us down enough for them to beat us.

For once, we got out to the big lead, sad that we couldn't hold it.

I feel bad for these guys, losing this many close ones has got to be tough. It is a lot like 94-95 in that way, except K has to sit and experience it from the bench.

Wendell played a really good game. Mark Williams is getting better. I feel like Roach is coming around. Going at Hurt and getting him into foul trouble is emerging as a strategy.

Onward.

AGAIN w the FTs. If we shoot more FTs we win.

That said, HORRIBLE DEFENSE. H O R R I B L E. Again w the layup lines and open threes.

That said, that three by Hubb was ridiculous but hey, we find new and innovative ways to lose!!! Negative - Hurt seems to be getting foul trouble a lot against teams regardless of defense. ND isn’t a team many people foul out against.
Oh where has Jalen Johnson gone. 8 pts. 3 TOs. So much talent but can’t seem to figure it out. Amazing we are struggling and have a lottery pick riding the bench. Wow
Positives. Moore is improving. Very impressed. He is so much more aggressive now. Williams and Coleman are getting better. Three shooting was phenomenal. We could get it NEXT YEAR - sigh

[Rickshaw]

The good news is, this will help our Quad 1 win remain a Quad 1 win.

Replied to this. Did someone kill that ?
I said , you can let veterans ‘ figure it out ‘ on the court , not a young team .
Used the term sacrilege in an earlier post...back at it.
Maybe my post was blocked cause I said something about coaching .
Been here since the 80’s. Never seen the lack of passion from the bench.

[dukelifer]

There are plenty of young teams that don’t make mistakes like this. Don’t continue to make the same mistakes. Youth is certainly part of our problem, but it isn’t the only problem. And I don’t think it’s even the primary problem.

Which ones exactly?

[sagegrouse]

According to Reddit, for the first time in 7,750 days, Duke has a losing record.

That would be Jason Williams freshman year, when we started 0-2? November 1999?

[Bob Green]

Neg - Hurt seems to be getting foul trouble a lot against teams regardless of defense. ND isn’t a team many people foul out against.

Coaches watch tape and develop game plans. Hurt is:

A) Important to Duke’s offense
B) Foul prone

Therefore, opposing coaches go at Hurt to draw fouls.

[bluenorth]

With that early start time I missed seeing the game. From the box score Moore had an outstanding performance, and we're getting contributions from the bench. What happened to Johnson though?

[proelitedota]

With that early start time I missed seeing the game. From the box score Moore had an outstanding performance, and we're getting contributions from the bench. What happened to Johnson though?

Freshman wall.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Replied to this. Did someone kill that ?
I said , you can let veterans ‘ figure it out ‘ on the court , not a young team .
Used the term sacrilege in an earlier post...back at it.
Maybe my post was blocked cause I said something about coaching .
Been here since the 80’s. Never seen the lack of passion from the bench.

Could be, I have no idea.

I'm really tired of hearing "passion," "effort," "desire."

Those things don't win basketball games without talent, gameplan, and discipline. Certain players can "will" a team to a victory. But those players are also very talented.

[Natty_B]

That would be Jason Williams freshman year, when we started 0-2? November 1999?

First losing record in February since 1995 and yes that 1995 team was way better they had a senior who contributed for one thing. 184 points in two home games to unranked teams. Not great Bob.

[Wander]

Basically a statistical dead heat save for free throws...they go 18-20 and we go 7-8. We outrebounded them by a little.

I can't remember a Duke team that was as bad at anything as this team is at drawing fouls. Our defense overall is worse than our offense overall, but that one specific thing on offense is soooooooo bad.

[bluenorth]

Freshman wall.

Thanks. With his time lost to injury I guess we have to lower expectations.