Duke Football 2021

[75Crazie]

It is really stretching a point to put this post in this thread ... but for one thing, I'm depressed about all the get-rid-of-Cut talk, and for another I don't want to look through 1146 pages of past threads to find a better one. It is a 2021 reference to a Duke player of the past, if that matters. If someone wants to move it, go for it, but I thought somebody might want to see this.

The current (Oct/Nov 2021) issue of AARP Magazine has a short interview with Ed Newman and Tony Nathan, teammates on the late-70s/early-80s Dolphins. After a knee injury ended Newman's NFL career in 1985 (a longer and more storied career than I remembered, he has a Super Bowl ring and at least one other Super Bowl appearance), he resumed law school (he had been taking night classes while still playing). Ten years later, he ran for county court judge, won election, and started in January 1995; he is still at the job, more than two decades later. He maintained a friendship with Nathan, and in 2010 he convinced Tony to apply as his bailiff. They are still together in those roles.

The article ends with some friendly banter between the two on the state of the programs of their alma maters (Nathan, if you don't remember, played at 'Bama). And that, of course, brings the discussion full circle back to the recent discussion here.

[budwom]

It is really stretching a point to put this post in this thread ... but for one thing, I'm depressed about all the get-rid-of-Cut talk, and for another I don't want to look through 1146 pages of past threads to find a better one. It is a 2021 reference to a Duke player of the past, if that matters. If someone wants to move it, go for it, but I thought somebody might want to see this.

The current (Oct/Nov 2021) issue of AARP Magazine has a short interview with Ed Newman and Tony Nathan, teammates on the late-70s/early-80s Dolphins. After a knee injury ended Newman's NFL career in 1985 (a longer and more storied career than I remembered, he has a Super Bowl ring and at least one other Super Bowl appearance), he resumed law school (he had been taking night classes while still playing). Ten years later, he ran for county court judge, won election, and started in January 1995; he is still at the job, more than two decades later. He maintained a friendship with Nathan, and in 2010 he convinced Tony to apply as his bailiff. They are still together in those roles.

The article ends with some friendly banter between the two on the state of the programs of their alma maters (Nathan, if you don't remember, played at 'Bama). And that, of course, brings the discussion full circle back to the recent discussion here.

Ed played when I was at Duke, great player, impressive guy.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I can tell you with 1000% certainty, we are not limited to candidates from smaller programs if Duke wants to pay market rate. I say this because I personally know a big name candidate who is definitely interested if Duke chooses to pay market rate.

Now if Duke goes cheap…that will not happen
You get what you pay for

Now that's intriguing, and for obvious reasons you can't/won't say who it is...but I wonder what else there is besides "market rate" money that would make a big name interested in the Duke job? Because the Duke job is clearly not merely "market rate" easy as a place to succeed. Is there an interest in doing it where people said it couldn't be done? I know that's a motivator for some people in all walks of life.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I am not as confident as you are that Knowles would come in and fire a bunch of his former colleagues.

He wouldn't have to. They will have already been fired.

[sagegrouse]

Now that's intriguing, and for obvious reasons you can't/won't say who it is...but I wonder what else there is besides "market rate" money that would make a big name interested in the Duke job? Because the Duke job is clearly not merely "market rate" easy as a place to succeed. Is there an interest in doing it where people said it couldn't be done? I know that's a motivator for some people in all walks of life.

Lots of reasons to want to coach at Duke. "Not a bunch of dumb alumni trying to run the program" is one. "Great university" to sell to recruits and parents. "Not overwhelming competition in the ACC Coastal" is a third. How about ? -- "Winning one-half your games is success." "Culture in the Triangle?" Well, at least it's not Starkville.

[budwom]

Lots of reasons to want to coach at Duke. "Not a bunch of dumb alumni trying to run the program" is one. "Great university" to sell to recruits and parents. "Not overwhelming competition in the ACC Coastal" is a third. How about ? -- "Winning one-half your games is success." "Culture in the Triangle?" Well, at least it's not Starkville.

yes, last time out quite a few people expected not many applicants, and they were wrong. A new guy has to know that winning six games in the regular season (and a minor bowl game) will keep the suits happy, no small thing.

[sagegrouse]

yes, last time out quite a few people expected not many applicants, and they were wrong. A new guy has to know that winning six games in the regular season (and a minor bowl game) will keep the suits happy, no small thing.

Whereas, at LSU, for example, winning a national championship gives you only 21 months of grace before being dismissed.

[sagegrouse]

Lots of reasons to want to coach at Duke. "Not a bunch of dumb alumni trying to run the program" is one.

And it's an old story. Wallace Wade came to Duke 90 years ago after huge success at Alabama because he was tired of dealing with the alumni. Duke had contacted him, reportedly, only to get his suggestions for a new football coach -- and he threw his own name in the hat.

[Acymetric]

He wouldn't have to. They will have already been fired.

Nope, generally the assistants stay in place to keep the program running (you can't just have an empty building while you conduct the search). The new coach decides if any will be retained after they are hired. Firing the whole staff all at once is pretty uncommon, and I would be shocked to see it at Duke.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

The market has moved for new hires dramatically in the last 5 years. Quality new candidates want market rate and they will point to Northwestern and Stanford as P5 peers

Clawson signed his 8-year extension in 2019...we are now approaching 2022...the bar has been raised over the past 3 seasons. With his success at Wake, they will have to pay market or he will leave in all likelihood for greener pastures after this year's success

Brown signed his contract in 2018...had to take a cut-rate deal because UNC owed Fedora over $12MM

Wake and UNC locked in their money at lower prices earlier in the cycle

I'm not sure if you are the agent for this powerful friend of yours and are trying to extract a big number for him from Duke by cherry picking the biggest numbers you can find, but I decided to take a more scientific approach. The big caveat is that it is often hard to pinpoint total comp as there can be guarantees of payments for running camps or something else, but here is what I found for the seven new power 5 coaches who started this season (so these are the latest numbers for comps, not contracts signed a few years ago):

Bret Bielema - Illinois - $4.2MM
Steve Sarkisian - Texas - $5.2MM
Josh Heupel - Tennessee - $4.2MM
Bryan Harsin - Auburn - $5.2MM
Clark Lea - Vanderbilt - unknown (unfortunate, as they would be a great comp - it looks like his predecessor made $3.5MM his last year)
Shane Beamer - South Carolina - $2.75MM (surprisingly low but I checked and this is all-in)
Jedd Fisch - Arizona - $2.6MM (this is an all-in figure - his base is actually a lot lower)

So I think Duke can land a good coach for well under $5 million. Note that several of these coaches seem to actually be making less than their predecessors. As noted above, these numbers can likely be nitpicked to death and I don't think we need a long thread doing that but I also didn't want the highest salaries out there being the baseline for a discussion.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Nope, generally the assistants stay in place to keep the program running (you can't just have an empty building while you conduct the search). The new coach decides if any will be retained after they are hired. Firing the whole staff all at once is pretty uncommon, and I would be shocked to see it at Duke.

Not with an end of season firing. It's usually the staff.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Lots of reasons to want to coach at Duke. "Not a bunch of dumb alumni trying to run the program" is one. "Great university" to sell to recruits and parents. "Not overwhelming competition in the ACC Coastal" is a third. How about ? -- "Winning one-half your games is success." "Culture in the Triangle?" Well, at least it's not Starkville.

Those reasons are valid for an up and comer or middling name...they do not convince me of a big name being interested.

[Acymetric]

Not with an end of season firing. It's usually the staff.

Every time a coach is fired, and a new one is hired (weeks, sometimes months later), you will hear about some assistants being "retained". Those people were not fired and then re-hired later. The decision about which assistants stay and which go is almost always made by the incoming head coach after he is hired.

Who do you imagine is running the football program if the entire staff is gone during a coaching search? The program doesn't stop when they blow the whistle for the final game of the season.

[TheTrain]

Now that's intriguing, and for obvious reasons you can't/won't say who it is...but I wonder what else there is besides "market rate" money that would make a big name interested in the Duke job? Because the Duke job is clearly not merely "market rate" easy as a place to succeed. Is there an interest in doing it where people said it couldn't be done? I know that's a motivator for some people in all walks of life.

More than happy to answer that
1) He wants to be a head coach period
2) He has a son who is applying to college and he would love the opportunity to coach him
3) He is a renaissance man with diverse intellectual interests outside of football and loves being in an academic environment
4) He has worked at an academic comp of Duke and loved it
5) He believes that having successfully competed against the best minds in the NFL, he knows he can succeed against college coaches
6) He really believes that he can win the Coastal division and beat UNC on a consistent basis
7) He truly believes that Duke can and should be able to sell itself to the best student-athletes in football nationally and he has proven recruiters and talent evaluators lined up to do it
8) He believes that he can assemble the staff and players to challenge Clemson for ACC football supremacy

[OZZIE4DUKE]

More than happy to answer that
1) He wants to be a head coach period
2) He has a son who is applying to college and he would love the opportunity to coach him
3) He is a renaissance man with diverse intellectual interests outside of football and loves being in an academic environment
4) He has worked at an academic comp of Duke and loved it
5) He believes that having successfully competed against the best minds in the NFL, he knows he can succeed against college coaches
6) He really believes that he can win the Coastal division and beat UNC on a consistent basis
7) He truly believes that Duke can and should be able to sell itself to the best student-athletes in football nationally and he has proven recruiters and talent evaluators lined up to do it
8) He believes that he can assemble the staff and players to challenge Clemson for ACC football supremacy

Sidd Finch?

[Indoor66]

Sidd Finch?

Santa Claus

[SamHouston]

Frank Merriwell

[TheTrain]

I'm not sure if you are the agent for this powerful friend of yours and are trying to extract a big number for him from Duke by cherry picking the biggest numbers you can find, but I decided to take a more scientific approach. The big caveat is that it is often hard to pinpoint total comp as there can be guarantees of payments for running camps or something else, but here is what I found for the seven new power 5 coaches who started this season (so these are the latest numbers for comps, not contracts signed a few years ago):

Bret Bielema - Illinois - $4.2MM
Steve Sarkisian - Texas - $5.2MM
Josh Heupel - Tennessee - $4.2MM
Bryan Harsin - Auburn - $5.2MM
Clark Lea - Vanderbilt - unknown (unfortunate, as they would be a great comp - it looks like his predecessor made $3.5MM his last year)
Shane Beamer - South Carolina - $2.75MM (surprisingly low but I checked and this is all-in)
Jedd Fisch - Arizona - $2.6MM (this is an all-in figure - his base is actually a lot lower)

So I think Duke can land a good coach for well under $5 million. Note that several of these coaches seem to actually be making less than their predecessors. As noted above, these numbers can likely be nitpicked to death and I don't think we need a long thread doing that but I also didn't want the highest salaries out there being the baseline for a discussion.

37 % of P5 head coaches this season make in excess of $4.8MM (24 of 65)
That number will increase this year again after the coaching carousel is finished
https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/sal...football/coach

Heupel's number is low because Tennessee is on the hook for a near $13MM buyout to Jeremy Pruitt; same deal with Beamer as South Carolina had to pay Will Muschamp $13MM in his buyout; Fisch is low because of Kevin Sumlin's $7.5MM buyout
Firing a coach while a buyout clause exists is very expensive

And no...I'm not an agent, just a friend

[camion]

37 % of P5 head coaches this season make in excess of $4.8MM (24 of 65)
That number will increase this year again after the coaching carousel is finished
https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/sal...football/coach

Heupel's number is low because Tennessee is on the hook for a near $13MM buyout to Jeremy Pruitt; same deal with Beamer as South Carolina had to pay Will Muschamp $13MM in his buyout
Firing a coach while a buyout clause exists is very expensive

And no...I'm not an agent, just a friend

It's something of a tradition at South Carolina to have multiple head coaches overlapping on the payroll.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

37 % of P5 head coaches this season make in excess of $4.8MM (24 of 65)
That number will increase this year again after the coaching carousel is finished
https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/sal...football/coach

Heupel's number is low because Tennessee is on the hook for a near $13MM buyout to Jeremy Pruitt; same deal with Beamer as South Carolina had to pay Will Muschamp $13MM in his buyout; Fisch is low because of Kevin Sumlin's $7.5MM buyout
Firing a coach while a buyout clause exists is very expensive

And no...I'm not an agent, just a friend

OK - you seem very hell bent on these big figures. Not gonna happen unless you or one of your friends makes a very large donation to Duke (think eight figures) designated for football coaching salaries. Most of the coaches who are getting the big figures have a track record of excellence, usually at the school that is currently paying them the big salary. Duke won't pay it and doesn't need to. If anything, the incremental money would be better spent on assistants.

I wish your friend the best of luck in getting his $5 million but if that's what he wants, he likely should not be shopping for real estate in the Triangle.