Getting the Covid Vaccine

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Gov of NJ was on CNBC this morning and was asked specifically about smokers being given priority. He answered by basically saying they are part of a larger group of at-risk people who are being prioritized. He had no response to Becky Quick’s response that some might become smokers just to cut the line, except to say that “we hope most people will be honest.”

This still makes no sense to me. Smoking alone should not, IMO, allow anyone to jump the line. Nor should obesity on its own. Not only because those are often the results of personal choices, but for the reason someone stated up-thread...this suddenly turns the priority group into a much larger, and much less manageable, percent of the population.

I feel like the "slippery slope" argument for people becoming smokers to move up the vaccine list doesn't hold water. Are people really so eager to be healthy and safe that they will expose their health and safety to get a shot a few weeks earlier?

[Tooold]

I feel like the "slippery slope" argument for people becoming smokers to move up the vaccine list doesn't hold water. Are people really so eager to be healthy and safe that they will expose their health and safety to get a shot a few weeks earlier?

Maybe not...but there are also people who will lie. Those who are willing to lie about being smokers don’t have to jeopardize their health in order to jump the line. And I haven’t seen anything that says NJ makes you prove you are a smoker. Regardless, my personal opinion is that people who have chosen to smoke should not get the vaccine ahead of others in their age group simply because they made this choice.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Maybe not...but there are also people who will lie. Those who are willing to lie about being smokers don’t have to jeopardize their health in order to jump the line. And I haven’t seen anything that says NJ makes you prove you are a smoker. Regardless, my personal opinion is that people who have chosen to smoke should not get the vaccine ahead of others in their age group simply because they made this choice.

They don't make you puff a carton of Marlboro Reds to prove you are a smoker?

I'm just saying - I have a hard time believing it's a large number of people.

[Rich]

Maybe not...but there are also people who will lie. Those who are willing to lie about being smokers don’t have to jeopardize their health in order to jump the line. And I haven’t seen anything that says NJ makes you prove you are a smoker. Regardless, my personal opinion is that people who have chosen to smoke should not get the vaccine ahead of others in their age group simply because they made this choice.

They don't make you puff a carton of Marlboro Reds to prove you are a smoker?

I'm just saying - I have a hard time believing it's a large number of people.

I live in NJ and have a very close relative who was somehow able to get through the hotline and able to make an appointment through the robot system merely by saying she is a smoker, which she is not.

I'm in no way condoning what my relative did, but I personally think putting smokers ahead in the line is a travesty (at the risk of getting us into a public policy area). Basically you're rewarding a nasty, debilitating, long proven unhealthy choice/habit and penalizing those of us who are healthier by refraining. I would distinguish smoking from just about any other medical condition, including alcoholism, which is a disease. Smoking is a choice and should not be rewarded. I'm all ears for any argument that refutes this point of view.

[Duke Blue Lemur]

I was finally able to make an appointment to get the vaccine this Saturday in Durham. Walgreens is starting to give the shot in North Carolina. The website is well laid out but I think it is swamped. I have not received the confirmation email yet but I have my confirmation number. The slots are filling quickly.

[LasVegas]

I live in NJ and have a very close relative who was somehow able to get through the hotline and able to make an appointment through the robot system merely by saying she is a smoker, which she is not.

I'm in no way condoning what my relative did, but I personally think putting smokers ahead in the line is a travesty (at the risk of getting us into a public policy area). Basically you're rewarding a nasty, debilitating, long proven unhealthy choice/habit and penalizing those of us who are healthier by refraining. I would distinguish smoking from just about any other medical condition, including alcoholism, which is a disease. Smoking is a choice and should not be rewarded. I'm all ears for any argument that refutes this point of view.

While I agree, the choice puts them more at risk which means they have a greater chance of hospitalization. If we want to keep our hospitals efficient and effective, we have to keep covid patients from needing inpatient care in large numbers.

[rsvman]

I live in NJ and have a very close relative who was somehow able to get through the hotline and able to make an appointment through the robot system merely by saying she is a smoker, which she is not.

I'm in no way condoning what my relative did, but I personally think putting smokers ahead in the line is a travesty (at the risk of getting us into a public policy area). Basically you're rewarding a nasty, debilitating, long proven unhealthy choice/habit and penalizing those of us who are healthier by refraining. I would distinguish smoking from just about any other medical condition, including alcoholism, which is a disease. Smoking is a choice and should not be rewarded. I'm all ears for any argument that refutes this point of view.

I don't want to get this thread too far off topic, and this is likely to be poorly received, but just a couple of thoughts.
Not clear to me how alcoholism is a disease but smoking is a choice. Didn't the alcoholic, in the beginning at least, have a choice to not drink? And if he/she had made the choice not to drink, wouldn't 'alcoholism' be irrelevant?
I have never had a drink in my life. Maybe I'm an alcoholic, for all I know, but the disease can't manifest itself if I never drink. So, at least in that sense, it seems to me that unless someone is forcing you to drink, there is choice involved in alcoholism, too. Well aware that most people don't choose never to start drinking, but I am living proof that it is a viable alternative.

[OldPhiKap]

I don't want to get this thread too far off topic, and this is likely to be poorly received, but just a couple of thoughts.
Not clear to me how alcoholism is a disease but smoking is a choice. Didn't the alcoholic, in the beginning at least, have a choice to not drink? And if he/she had made the choice not to drink, wouldn't 'alcoholism' be irrelevant?
I have never had a drink in my life. Maybe I'm an alcoholic, for all I know, but the disease can't manifest itself if I never drink. So, at least in that sense, it seems to me that unless someone is forcing you to drink, there is choice involved in alcoholism, too. Well aware that most people don't choose never to start drinking, but I am living proof that it is a viable alternative.

Both, as I understand it, have some element of physical addiction.

Perhaps COVID as a respiratory virus has a worse proven impact on damaged lungs than damaged livers, which is why they are treated differently in some jurisdictions for COVID prioritization.

[SoCalDukeFan]

I feel like the "slippery slope" argument for people becoming smokers to move up the vaccine list doesn't hold water. Are people really so eager to be healthy and safe that they will expose their health and safety to get a shot a few weeks earlier?

I don’t think many will take up smoking to jump in line but I think many will say they are smokers and show up with a pack of smokes in their pocket or purse.

In LA people showed up with obviously faked medical pay slips, etc.

A tier that includes over 65 and obese and smokers who too big and too easy to fake.

SoCal

[Rich]

I don’t think many will take up smoking to jump in line but I think many will say they are smokers and show up with a pack of smokes in their pocket or purse.

In LA people showed up with obviously faked medical pay slips, etc.

A tier that includes over 65 and obese and smokers who too big and too easy to fake.

SoCal

Smoking way easier to fake than obesity!

[mpj96]

I don't like the fact that CDC uses BMI>30 as their definition of obese. A 6'0" guy weighing 221 lbs has a BMI of 30 and is therefore "obese." 221 is clearly overweight and unhealthy (unless a body builder) but this is not nearly what the average person thinks of as "obese."

The CDC's "overweight" classification is problematic as well. It lumps together BMI's from 25 to 29.9. So a 5'7" guy weighing 159 is classified as unhealthily overweight and lumped in with a 5'7" guy weighing 190. That's ridiculous.

These classifications undermine CDC credibility and give ammunition to the skeptical. IMO much more realistic definitions would be something like BMI 28-34.9 = overweight, BMI of 35+ = obese.

(Actually the CDC sub-classifies obese as Class 1 =30 to 34.9, Class 2 =35-39.9, Class 3 ("severe" or "morbid") = 40+. My definition of obese would correspond to CDC Class 2+).

But whatever the classification system the conclusion is exactly the same - we were too fat as a nation from 1960 to 1980 but we were holding level. Every year since we've gotten fatter and now ~ one third of all Americans would now be what the average person thinks of as obese.

I am 6'1". The NIH BMI indicates that I could be 140 lbs and that would be on the low end of "normal weight". That is insane.

[Bluedog]

I am 6'1". The NIH BMI indicates that I could be 140 lbs and that would be on the low end of "normal weight". That is insane.

That was me in high school!! But no more...I was like 6'1" 150 lbs I think sophomore year...And that might have been rounding up. I was very active in athletics and ate a ton, but just couldn't put on weight. Certainly, my metabolism has changed since then...

[MChambers]

Smoking way easier to fake than obesity!

Go to the band and get some rolls of quarters, and tape them around your ankles. Then stick a pillow under your shirt.

[MChambers]

Www.vaxstandby.com. Enter your mobile phone number and zip code and you’ll get a text if there are leftover vaccine doses near you. Was mentioned in a Washington Post story today.

[rasputin]

No vaccine in sight for me here in Missouri, which is a robust participant in many races to the bottom. I think this state still has the lowest percentage of people with vaccines in the country. I'm not quite 65, but am diabetic, otherwise not in great health, and I teach part time (college grad course). It took almost a month for the system here to acknowledge that I had registered for the vaccine. I don't think I'll be getting one any time soon.

[Phredd3]

All the talk about faked eligibility, etc., makes me wonder if Nate Silver wasn't on to something. Just prioritize by age, oldest first. Simple, effective, and nobody can jump the line. Of course, my son might not be quite as safe, if that happened, so it isn't perfect, but OK. It sounds like what we're doing isn't perfect, either.

[Skydog]

Vaccine eligibility by merely saying you are a smoker is a farce. It's worse than that actually - it is a system set up to incentivize dishonesty. At first only the most spineless will lie, but then stories about the cheating will spread and even more will join in to protect their interests. When people start seeing their vaccine dates getting pushed back by weeks or months due to a rapid growth of the US 'smoker' population it could easily snowball into a free for all.

[BlueDevil2K]

No vaccine in sight for me here in Missouri, which is a robust participant in many races to the bottom. I think this state still has the lowest percentage of people with vaccines in the country. I'm not quite 65, but am diabetic, otherwise not in great health, and I teach part time (college grad course). It took almost a month for the system here to acknowledge that I had registered for the vaccine. I don't think I'll be getting one any time soon.

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccinations

Looks like you've got Alabama beat (surprised it's Alabama and not Mississippithis time) ...and some territories :-)

Interestingly they realized sometime today that they needed to re-center the color scale, so most states went from the "best" color to the "worst" color.

[Tooold]

Vaccine eligibility by merely saying you are a smoker is a farce. It's worse than that actually - it is a system set up to incentivize dishonesty. At first only the most spineless will lie, but then stories about the cheating will spread and even more will join in to protect their interests. When people start seeing their vaccine dates getting pushed back by weeks or months due to a rapid growth of the US 'smoker' population it could easily snowball into a free for all.

This is a phenomenon that Duke professor Dan Ariely has written about (wrt life in general, not CoVid). When people even think others are cheating (it doesn’t have to be true), they are much more likely to cheat as well.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Go to the band and get some rolls of quarters, and tape them around your ankles. Then stick a pillow under your shirt.

Anyone know a way I can fake being thin?

My SO got her second Moderna shot on Tuesday afternoon. Arm soreness and some chills that night but just a tender arm yesterday. Not other side effects! This morning back to normal!

I get my second Pfizer shot March 1.

I had also registered with Durham County on line before I got my first shot appointment in Greensboro. I got a call (went to voicemail) from Durham yesterday to call them within 2 days to get an appointment this week if I hadn’t already gotten my first shot. I did not call them back.