Getting the Covid Vaccine

[OldPhiKap]

I can't say definitively but it is likely that the "strength" of the reaction to the vaccine has to do with the level of innate immune response in the individual. The innate immune response is the general response to any foreign antigen inside the body. It is independent of the pathogen. It happens in the first 24-48 after encounter with the foreign matter and is characterized by cytokine production (IL-6, TNFa, IL-1) that lead to fever or localized redness/swelling. The adaptive immune response (Ab from B cells and T cell response) takes longer to gear up. 10-14 days for an initial exposure and maybe ~7 days for a second (memory) exposure.

It is likely that the symptoms that occur in the 12-48 hour window are due to the LNP carrier molecule that envelops the mRNA in the vaccine and not the mRNA itself. Therefore, I don't think it has much direct link to how a person would react to an actual COVID infection.

On the other hand the strength of the innate response in an individual is frequently, but not always, correlated to the strength of the adaptive immune response. So there might be a connection between initial reactogenicity and overall vaccine immunity in general but not necessarily to the COVID vaccine specifically.

Also, the innate (and adaptive) immune response weakens with age and I have heard anecdotal evidence from the clinical trials (but not controlled studies) that older people have had less severe reactions to the vaccine on the whole than younger people.

Big thanks tbyers!

[TruBlu]

Y’all are scaring me with your talk about developing brain fog after the second vaccine. What about folks like me, who live constantly in a dense brain fog. I might need a padded room to keep me from injuring myself.

If possible, I’ll give updates when I get stuck again on 2/15.

[elvis14]

Y’all are scaring me with your talk about developing brain fog after the second vaccine. What about folks like me, who live constantly in a dense brain fog. I might need a padded room to keep me from injuring myself.

If possible, I’ll give updates when I get stuck again on 2/15.

I had the same thought, already feel like I'm trying to clear brain fog every day!

[Jeffrey]

Y’all are scaring me with your talk about developing brain fog after the second vaccine. What about folks like me, who live constantly in a dense brain fog. I might need a padded room to keep me from injuring myself.

If possible, I’ll give updates when I get stuck again on 2/15.

I had the same thought, already feel like I'm trying to clear brain fog every day!

No worries, it might also reverse brain fog. That’s certainly my hope!

[devildeac]

He’s Cato the Eldest so that I can call my big brother Cato the Elder.

Are they related to Pliney the Elder and Pliney the Younger?

Oops, wrong thread.

[Jeffrey]

Are they related to Pliney the Elder and Pliney the Younger?

You have exceptional concentration!

[cato]

Are they related to Pliney the Elder and Pliney the Younger?

Oops, wrong thread.

By common law marriage, yes.

[LasVegas]

I got my second Pfizer shot at 3:00 pm yesterday and oh boy was it a night. Woke up at 3:00 am this morning and it felt like a train had ran me over and tossed me into a freezing cold lake. Symptoms currently are headache, fatigue, chills, and a little bit of nausea. Nasty stuff. Took the day off so not all bad!

Update. I am about 30 hours post 2nd dose now. My day went better than my night. I progressively got better during the day and was feeling pretty good around dinner time but it’s starting to hit me a little bit now again. Headache, chills, fatigue. The three headed devil. I’ll be better prepared tonight with my ibuprofen so hopefully by morning I’ll be close to normal. My employer gives up to 10 paid days off for covid related stuff. This includes vaccine symptoms so I was pleasantly surprised this morning that I wouldn’t have to use any PTO.

Not sure if it has been mentioned but the V-Safe data collection is just so cool. I would love to get my hands on the data it’s collecting.

[Tooold]

Update. I am about 30 hours post 2nd dose now. My day went better than my night. I progressively got better during the day and was feeling pretty good around dinner time but it’s starting to hit me a little bit now again. Headache, chills, fatigue. The three headed devil. I’ll be better prepared tonight with my ibuprofen so hopefully by morning I’ll be close to normal. My employer gives up to 10 paid days off for covid related stuff. This includes vaccine symptoms so I was pleasantly surprised this morning that I wouldn’t have to use any PTO.

Not sure if it has been mentioned but the V-Safe data collection is just so cool. I would love to get my hands on the data it’s collecting.

I have been entering my data into v-safe as well. I encourage everyone to sign up for that!

As I previously posted, my symptoms after the second shot (received Tuesday 2/2) were fairly mild. While I felt really achy that night and had a hard time sleeping, my symptoms were much improved by the next day. For the rest of this week I have felt a little tired and sluggish, and have had a mild headache, easily relieved by Tylenol. However, by evening each day I have noticed the joint aches returning, though not as bad as the first night. None of this has kept me from my normal activities, including exercise.

[TeacherTom]

Since AstraZeneca’s vaccine is great at combating the UK variant, is it possible the third vaccine after two Moderna shots might be even more protective? I’m a bit uncertain about this as it looks like, according to Dr. F, the UK variant will soon be dominant in Florida where I reside. I’ve not read anything addressing whether both Moderna shots are effective.

[Bluedog]

Since AstraZeneca’s vaccine is great at combating the UK variant, is it possible the third vaccine after two Moderna shots might be even more protective? I’m a bit uncertain about this as it looks like, according to Dr. F, the UK variant will soon be dominant in Florida where I reside. I’ve not read anything addressing whether both Moderna shots are effective.

Not a large scale human trial, but Moderna announced in January: "Vaccination with the Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine produced neutralizing titers against all key emerging variants tested"
https://investors.modernatx.com/news-releases/news-release-details/moderna-covid-19-vaccine-retains-neutralizing-activity-against

There was a significant reduction in neutralizing titers in one variant (B.1.351) but it was still above the expected need to remain protective.

Not 100% conclusive, but certainly promising.

[camion]

Is there any possible correlation between a person’s unique reaction and immunity level created? It seems like some people’s immune systems are responding more aggressively.

Also, is there any possible correlation between a person’s unique reaction and the seriousness of the COVID-19 they would have gotten had they gotten the disease instead of the vaccine?

[Jeffrey]

Update. I am about 30 hours post 2nd dose now. My day went better than my night. I progressively got better during the day and was feeling pretty good around dinner time but it’s starting to hit me a little bit now again. Headache, chills, fatigue. The three headed devil. I’ll be better prepared tonight with my ibuprofen so hopefully by morning I’ll be close to normal. My employer gives up to 10 paid days off for covid related stuff. This includes vaccine symptoms so I was pleasantly surprised this morning that I wouldn’t have to use any PTO.

Not sure if it has been mentioned but the V-Safe data collection is just so cool. I would love to get my hands on the data it’s collecting.

Sorry to hear you’ve had a strong reaction. Hope you’re feeling better today.

If you don’t mind me asking, how old are you? Given your reaction, I’m thinking you’re under 45.

[tbyers11]

Since AstraZeneca’s vaccine is great at combating the UK variant, is it possible the third vaccine after two Moderna shots might be even more protective? I’m a bit uncertain about this as it looks like, according to Dr. F, the UK variant will soon be dominant in Florida where I reside. I’ve not read anything addressing whether both Moderna shots are effective.

See my earlier post in the other thread, Moderna took sera from vaccinated individuals and ran the assay that measures neutralizing Ab in sera with both the vaccine strain virus and the UK variant (B.1.1.7). The vaccine produced similar amounts to both virus strains. Same process showed a 5-6 fold drop against the South African but that is likely still high enough to work well. Since that post Pfizer has published very similar findings (vaccine very good against UK, reduced but still strong against SA).

Small caveat that those were measurements of neutralizing Ab and not actual prevention of disease (efficacy). Novavax recently released interim Ph 3 efficacy data in the UK in which they sequenced most of their cases. The vaccine had 89% efficacy overall with 95% against ancestral vaccine strain and 86% against 501Y.V1 variant strain.

Novavax uk Ph3.jpg

Novavax also released interim results from Ph II trial in South Africa in which they had 60% efficacy (with no severe cases in vaccine group) to parental vaccine and 25/27 sequences were the SA 501y.V2 variant. So it was basically a trial of ancestral vaccine against SA variant.

So the data looks like all vaccines are working very well against the UK variant and and quite well against the SA variant (5 months ago I would have been very happy with 60% efficacy and no severe cases in vaccine group).

[TeacherTom]

Thank you! I’ll feel protected as I return to the classroom next month.

[Stray Gator]

I received my second Moderna shot yesterday at 10:30 am, and thought it might be helpful to share the results after 24 hours. To put it in context, I am a 72-year-old man in good health with no underlying medical issues.

Following the first shot four weeks ago, I experienced only mild soreness localized at the vaccination site on my upper arm, which started in the late afternoon but was gone by the following afternoon. I had read that the second jab tends to produce more significant side effects in a higher number of people -- though it seems the impacts of the Pfizer vaccine generally exceed those of the Moderna; but I typically do not have any reaction to inoculations, so I went into post-second-shot phase with no particular expectations.

About 8 hours after the second shot, I started feeling some soreness in the upper arm similar to the aftermath of the first shot, but it was a little more pronounced. I sensed the soreness only when I lifted my arm and moved it around, not when it was lowered by my side and at rest. When I went to bed around midnight -- almost 14 hours after the second shot -- that was still the only effect I could feel, and it was not so severe as to make it difficult for me to fall asleep.

At about 3:30 am, I awoke, which is highly unusual since I normally sleep through the night with no problems. Surprisingly, I felt no discomfort of any kind, other than the soreness in my arm when I lifted it. But I had some difficulty getting back to sleep -- which may be attributable to the effects of the vaccine, but might just as easily be a result of the disturbance to my regular routine. In either case, I woke up again twice for very brief periods before my alarm went off at the customary time.

When I got up from bed, a little more than 20 hours after the vaccination, I noticed immediately that I had some of the familiar symptoms that others have described -- like a very mild case of flu, with some minor achiness/soreness across my shoulders and in my upper legs, along with a touch of "brain fog" and fatigue (the latter two being, again, similar to what I sometimes experience when I don't get a full night's sleep). About an hour later, I began to notice a slight headache -- which seemed remarkable, because it's extremely rare for me to get any kind of headache (unless I try to read too much without my reading glasses, LOL). But none of these side effects amounted to sufficient discomfort that I felt the need to take any medication, such as an analgesic.

Just after the 24-hour mark, about an hour ago, I could tell that even these effects were beginning to dissipate. Specifically, the muscle achiness, the brain fog, and the fatigue are now mostly gone. There's still some soreness in my arm where they gave me the shot, but it's subsiding, too.

It's evident that reactions to the vaccine are individualized, so your experience may be more or less unpleasant than mine. But to the extent that it might matter, I'd say that the temporary effects are a very small price to pay for the sense of relief and satisfaction that comes with knowing that we're doing all we can to protect ourselves and those around us from the risk of severe consequences from this virus.

Just to follow up and finalize this report, the mild flu-like aftereffects from my second Moderna vaccination had all disappeared by later in the day yesterday, except for some diminishing soreness at the site of the shot when I would lift the arm. I was able get a normal full night's sleep with no problems, and awoke this morning feeling completely normal again. So in sum, I experienced some very minor effects from the second Moderna jab -- a little bit of arm soreness that lasted until about 36 hours after, and some mild flu-like symptoms (a slight daze and perceptible muscle achiness in my shoulders and legs) that I noticed when I woke up the following morning, which lasted until mid-afternoon.

FWIW, my wife got her second Moderna shot yesterday morning, and as of noon today reports that she has felt no aftereffects except for the usual sore arm.

[Nrrrrvous]

BossVac.jpg

[Bob Green]

I received shot 1 of the Pfizer vaccine this morning.

[rsvman]

I received shot 1 of the Pfizer vaccine this morning.

Excellent. Off to a good start.

[LasVegas]

Sorry to hear you’ve had a strong reaction. Hope you’re feeling better today.

If you don’t mind me asking, how old are you? Given your reaction, I’m thinking you’re under 45.

30 with 3 young kids that make me feel 65. I’m almost 48 hours post 2nd dose and feel pretty good now. A little bit of a headache but that’s about it.