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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Hillsborough,nc
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    This is only your second post on DBR, and you come raining fire and brimstone.

    Who are you?

    K's one-and-done strategy? Not his strategy. Our recruiting is to get the best players we can. Some leave early -- expectedly so. Some leave early -- unexpectedly, and sometimes when they shouldn't. Welcome to the big leagues. This year's recruiting class should have a number of players return for a second and even third year. "[P]oor substitute for actually developing a program and a team?" This is a pitifully weak attempt at a slam against the most respected coach in the entire world. I could go on, but it's not worth my time.

    Oh, and "staggeringly unathletic?" You must be that Visa card guy.
    Thank you

  2. #42
    Game recap and five observations from today's loss. Tough, tough loss.

    https://bluedevilstop.com/duke-drops...-on-the-brink/

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Quote Originally Posted by hallcity View Post
    This Duke team isnít the sort of Duke team that weíve become accustomed to watch. The talent and experience arenít there. Joey Baker taking an open three at crunch time? Maybe next year but this season the only way that goes in is by accident. In an ordinary Duke year, Hurt starts, Johnson would probably start, and Goldwire is in the rotation. Everyone else is probably a deep reserve. In 1995 I was frustrated because we were close. Weíre not that close this season. Weíve got too many players who were badly overrated out of HS and too little experience.
    I actually thought Joey's 3 was an excellent shot, a great opportunity. He's a very good shooter and it was a very open look. Not sure if there are a whole lot of other shots I would have preferred to that one at that point in the game.

    There are lots of things to criticize about the team and the game, but I don't think that piece of shot selection was one of them.

    And in most years where the team is of the quality we've been accustomed to, Jordan Goldwire would not be in the rotation. Or particularly close to it.

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by tommy View Post
    I actually thought Joey's 3 was an excellent shot, a great opportunity. He's a very good shooter and it was a very open look. Not sure if there are a whole lot of other shots I would have preferred to that one at that point in the game.

    There are lots of things to criticize about the team and the game, but I don't think that piece of shot selection was one of them.

    And in most years where the team is of the quality we've been accustomed to, Jordan Goldwire would not be in the rotation. Or particularly close to it.
    Yea of all the things to criticize, Joeyís wide open three attempt was not one of them. Was a great look with a good shooter taking it. Just didnít go in, just like Stewardís. I thought Wendellís step back three attempt was a way worse shot.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by tommy View Post
    I actually thought Joey's 3 was an excellent shot, a great opportunity. He's a very good shooter and it was a very open look. Not sure if there are a whole lot of other shots I would have preferred to that one at that point in the game.

    There are lots of things to criticize about the team and the game, but I don't think that piece of shot selection was one of them.

    And in most years where the team is of the quality we've been accustomed to, Jordan Goldwire would not be in the rotation. Or particularly close to it.
    I didnít have a problem with the shot but Joey is shooting 18% from 3 this year. And I agree with your last statement. Goldwire should be closer to 15-20. Not almost 30

  6. #46
    Really thought that three from Steward was going in.

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueDevilStop View Post
    Really thought that three from Steward was going in.
    Two good shots; if one goes in, maybe a different result. And complaints about Joey taking hte shot? Lodge your complaint with Mr. Hurt, who fouled out, necessitating Joey's presence ont he court.
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Coballs View Post
    I'm looking forward to seeing some Duke players develop, stick around and be joined by new more talented players.
    Assuming they develop. Plenty havenít.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Quote Originally Posted by kshepinthehouse View Post
    I didnít have a problem with the shot but Joey is shooting 18% from 3 this year. And I agree with your last statement. Goldwire should be closer to 15-20. Not almost 30
    Not to disagree with your agreeing with me but non-top 100 high school players just don't play at Duke at all. If we had a point guard anything like a Tyus or Tre Jones, or Frank Jackson, or even Trevon Duvall or Derryck Thornton of recent vintage -- not to mention the older guys like Hurley, J-Will, Duhon, Wojo, etc. -- Goldwire would be playing more like 5 minutes a game. If that. He's a great story and he's worked so hard to get to this point, and by all accounts is a great kid, and he does do a good job with on-ball defense, but guys with his skill level almost never see this kind of floor time at Duke. Far from our only problem, but it is one of them.

  10. #50
    scottdude8's Avatar
    scottdude8 is online now Contributor, Zoubek disciple, and resident Wolverine
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Toronto
    Quote Originally Posted by -jk View Post
    This is about where we should have been in December, things coming together. This season is really killing young teams...

    -jk
    Didnít need to scroll far to find the correct take here. This team is suffering from the strange pandemic season disproportionately.

    To those who think the sky is falling: yes, we wouldnít make the tourney if it was played today. But there is a ton of season to go, and this performance beats the average ACC team. And we should get better. Lots of time for our luck to shift.

    Oh, and btw, Kansas also just lost its third straight. The biggest difference between us and them, a Top 25 team? They have more wins because of a full non con schedule. If this team is 8-5 weíre still disappointed, but not running around like chickens with our heads cut off. That must always be remembered.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by soflabluedevil View Post
    Yes we are that bad. Playing close to mediocre teams repeatedly is not promising. We make so many incredibly bad plays on both sides of the ball (such as Goldwire shooting a 3 when game is on the wire). We are a soft team-watching rebounding is excruciating. (Wait til Unc). We have no leader. We have no inside game-and donít even try to get the ball inside-thus we lose games by FTs. Our offense is a joke-running and dribbling 30 ft. from basket and passing up legitimate shots when we get them. We have one player perform in outstanding fashion such that any decent should win by 10; if he has just a good game we lose by 12 or more.
    Agree with much of this post, but this tends to happen when the floor is unbalanced. It's just the way it is with no Carey, Boozer, Carter, Bagley, Zion, etc. available. We also have a defensive specialist at pg and another two guards that are accruing experience. Duke was due for a development year. It was gonna happen. UVA had a hiccup in 2017 with 7 losses in the ACC (similar situation), and you can see where they've vaulted.

    We need taller guards to play that pressure man to man. Steward, Roach, and Goldwire (to a lesser degree) are getting bullied up top. And as others have mentioned, we need an alpha or two. We're just gonna have to get through this year and see what these experiences reap next November.

  12. #52
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Frustrating loss. Especially because it was there for the taking. Wide open 3 for Baker to take the lead, and unfortunately it didnít fall. Wide open 3 for Steward to tie, and it just didnít fall. Ugh.

    The positives:
    - Hurt stepped back up and played like an All-American again.
    - Steward had a really nice bounce back game as well
    - Aside from a couple of ill-advised 3s, Moore played well
    - Despite what I am about to say below, we still had a chance to win against a solid team on the road

    The negatives:
    - Big step back from Johnson. He was way too sloppy today. We really needed a better game from him
    - A really rough game from Roach too
    - Minimal help from the bench

    We are gonna need more from at least one more guy. And we need to make better decisions.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by scottdude8 View Post
    Didnít need to scroll far to find the correct take here. This team is suffering from the strange pandemic season disproportionately.

    To those who think the sky is falling: yes, we wouldnít make the tourney if it was played today. But there is a ton of season to go, and this performance beats the average ACC team. And we should get better. Lots of time for our luck to shift.

    Oh, and btw, Kansas also just lost its third straight. The biggest difference between us and them, a Top 25 team? They have more wins because of a full non con schedule. If this team is 8-5 weíre still disappointed, but not running around like chickens with our heads cut off. That must always be remembered.
    Letís not forget some of our wins were also close.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by scottdude8 View Post
    Didnít need to scroll far to find the correct take here. This team is suffering from the strange pandemic season disproportionately.

    To those who think the sky is falling: yes, we wouldnít make the tourney if it was played today. But there is a ton of season to go, and this performance beats the average ACC team. And we should get better. Lots of time for our luck to shift.

    Oh, and btw, Kansas also just lost its third straight. The biggest difference between us and them, a Top 25 team? They have more wins because of a full non con schedule. If this team is 8-5 weíre still disappointed, but not running around like chickens with our heads cut off. That must always be remembered.
    Not a fair comparison at all. Duke canceled games against some truly dreadful teams. Winning those 3 wouldnít change much. Kansas while struggling has loses against the no 1 and 2 AP teams and has wins over top 15 Creighton and Texas Tech. Dukeís ďbestĒ loss is to no 16 VT and our best win (and best is doing a lot of work here is maybe) Notre Dame.

    To me Dukeís totally lackluster resume is a real sign things could get 1995 level ugly.

  15. #55
    Duke is now 81-244 from 3 on the season for 33.2%.

  16. #56
    Havenít posted in ages... got a little too amped up in years past during losses but miss jumping in.
    Simple question and I donít say this flippantly. When was the last time Duke was a top flight three point shooting team? The Wall Street Journal had a good article about NBA threes and it seems to me Duke has gone a long time without being a real constant threat on the most important shot in basketball. Every team is different but my poor memory seems like this has been the case for awhile now. Maybe a player has a good game here or there but itís not a regular part of the strength of Dukeís offense. BUT they seem to take a lot. This team is a perfect example. I donít know why the disparity but it seems like a regular handicap for years that keep inferior teams by talent in games. Am I nuts and remembering wrong?

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by MrPoon View Post
    Havenít posted in ages... got a little too amped up in years past during losses but miss jumping in.
    Simple question and I donít say this flippantly. When was the last time Duke was a top flight three point shooting team? The Wall Street Journal had a good article about NBA threes and it seems to me Duke has gone a long time without being a real constant threat on the most important shot in basketball. Every team is different but my poor memory seems like this has been the case for awhile now. Maybe a player has a good game here or there but itís not a regular part of the strength of Dukeís offense. BUT they seem to take a lot. This team is a perfect example. I donít know why the disparity but it seems like a regular handicap for years that keep inferior teams by talent in games. Am I nuts and remembering wrong?
    Great point. It hasnít been a strength in years. From memory, seems like Kennard was our last great 3 point shooter. The one and some era hasnít produced many great shooters for us. Grayson was a pretty good shooter but not on the level of Kennard, and, if memory serves me correctly, didnít shoot the 3 as well his senior year for whatever reason.

  18. #58
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by MrPoon View Post
    Havenít posted in ages... got a little too amped up in years past during losses but miss jumping in.
    Simple question and I donít say this flippantly. When was the last time Duke was a top flight three point shooting team? The Wall Street Journal had a good article about NBA threes and it seems to me Duke has gone a long time without being a real constant threat on the most important shot in basketball. Every team is different but my poor memory seems like this has been the case for awhile now. Maybe a player has a good game here or there but itís not a regular part of the strength of Dukeís offense. BUT they seem to take a lot. This team is a perfect example. I donít know why the disparity but it seems like a regular handicap for years that keep inferior teams by talent in games. Am I nuts and remembering wrong?
    Depending on your exact criteria, any of 16, 17, 18, but certainly no earlier than 2016.
    basketball is back, baby!

  19. #59
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by scottdude8 View Post
    Didn’t need to scroll far to find the correct take here. This team is suffering from the strange pandemic season disproportionately.

    To those who think the sky is falling: yes, we wouldn’t make the tourney if it was played today. But there is a ton of season to go, and this performance beats the average ACC team. And we should get better. Lots of time for our luck to shift.

    Oh, and btw, Kansas also just lost its third straight. The biggest difference between us and them, a Top 25 team? They have more wins because of a full non con schedule. If this team is 8-5 we’re still disappointed, but not running around like chickens with our heads cut off. That must always be remembered.
    Yeah, no. As we said before, 3 meaningless wins against patsies still leaves us .500 in conference with no meaningful wins. People would be (rightfully) very concerned still.

  20. #60
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Quote Originally Posted by MrPoon View Post
    Havenít posted in ages... got a little too amped up in years past during losses but miss jumping in.
    Simple question and I donít say this flippantly. When was the last time Duke was a top flight three point shooting team? The Wall Street Journal had a good article about NBA threes and it seems to me Duke has gone a long time without being a real constant threat on the most important shot in basketball. Every team is different but my poor memory seems like this has been the case for awhile now. Maybe a player has a good game here or there but itís not a regular part of the strength of Dukeís offense. BUT they seem to take a lot. This team is a perfect example. I donít know why the disparity but it seems like a regular handicap for years that keep inferior teams by talent in games. Am I nuts and remembering wrong?
    I guess it depends on what your definition of "top flight" is. For three consecutive years 2013-14-15 we were 39.5-40% from three point range. That has to qualify as "top flight."

    Everyone is down on our three point shooting this year, and rightfully so. The perception is compounded by the fact that we only shot 35% last year and a dreadful 31% in 2019, which of course was the Zion year. So a lot of meh 3-point shooting recently. But before that, for about the last 20 years or so, we've only had a few that we've shot under 37%. Those were three straight years in the early 00's where we were at 36% and 2009 when we were at 35%. Nothing like what we've seen the last three years in total.

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