Post Game Thread - Duke 73 - Pitt 79

[dukelifer]

K presser transcript
https://goduke.com/documents/2021/1/...h_K_Quotes.pdf

Quote about needing all our guys to play well at the same time:

"Jalen had a magnificent game and he's just started to be with us. If he comes close to doing that every game, then that's something that we can count on every game. You're not necessarily going to get 24 and 16, and seven assists and no turnovers, but somebody who can create and manufacturer shots. He did well and Matt [Hurt] has got to play better. You know, he had a horrible first half. Then Wendell [Moore] played well, now he's got to play well again. For us to figure out a team, there has to be some level of consistency of performance by all the kids
so you can define roles."

Quote about how we have lacked a sense of the moment about WHEN we need to make big plays/execute big sequences:

"When you go up, you got to hit both of one-of-ones, not one of them. When you drive the ball off your foul, you gotta put that damn thing in every once in a while, so you don't you, you lose points. We’re 11-for-19 from the free throw line and in just some critical times."

The team is getting into bad habits. The inability to close out halves is a sign of immaturity and lack of on court leadership. There are a number of likable kids and there are individual improvements- Roach in particular- but team play is poor. It is very frustrating to watch the mistakes made over and over again. The long delays between games is not helping. Feels like a lost season for players, coaches and fans alike. Will continue to muddle through.

[jv001]

I think this was a blip, but he clearly wasn’t effective last night. Perhaps it was the zone neutering his skill set (basically on-ball defense). Louisville seems like a good target for a zone too, so if we go zone and he struggles again his minutes could get slashed again. Worth keeping an eye on.

I will say though that if Baker continues to play poorly it will be hard to keep Goldwire on the bench.

I will just add to your two real good posts, Brakefield needs to pick up his play or he needs to sit right beside Baker. Well social distance anyway.

GoDuke!

[peteandpete]

The decision to zone was a good one. Let's be honest; we had no one who could guard their main guy. Hopefully, the foul disparity was an aberration. Teams playing that much zone seldom commit that many fouls. We are also an average team that is: young, inconsistent, doesn't shoot well, lacks protection at the rim, and in spite of quickness at several positions, has had difficulty denying penetration. We start slowly; are inconsistent at the foul line (eight misses and one was a front end, so nine potential points squandered); and settle for too many jump shots (often early in the shot clock) instead of forcing the defense to work harder. As so many of us have said about football, honest assessment is necessary before improvement can take place. Let's go Duke!

[roywhite]

The team is getting into bad habits. The inability to close out halves is a sign of immaturity and lack of on court leadership. There are a number of likable kids and there are individual improvements- Roach in particular- but team play is poor. It is very frustrating to watch the mistakes made over and over again. The long delays between games is not helping. Feels like a lost season for players, coaches and fans alike. Will continue to muddle through.

I was glad to see Coach K being blunt in some of his criticisms.

Lost season? perhaps, but it feels to me like we are now in more of a flow -- regular games, regular practices, school back in session and fellow students around, Coach K determined to bring up the level of play, etc.

[AtlDuke72]

[QUOTE=hsheffield;1326361]disappointing for sure.



JJ has stud potential once he gets his rhythm


Johnson had 18 points, 10 rebounds and 4 assists and a couple of blocks in SECOND HALF! Looked like Grant Hill to me. I am not sure how he can “get his rhythm” any better than that. Couple of very questionable calls on him or Duke might have won.

[bluenorth]

I'm seeing a lot of young players developing their basketball IQ. Unfortunately, that comes at the cost of making mistakes. For example, Johnson's fifth foul was in a situation where a veteran player simply does not even think about reaching for the ball. Another is that even in a zone you do not lose track of Champagnie for one second - the guy put up a double double in the first half, so if he's not scoring he just might be going after a rebound. Yet another: after a nice steal and attacking in transition why throw a long pass to Tape? Even if he manages a clean catch, what is he going to do with the ball in that position? I could go on, but the theme is that these young guys are learning on the fly, and are paying for it. It will take time and repetitions, and the season is getting short.

[kshepinthehouse]

I wouldn’t be worried about next year. We have a couple of studs coming, with the possibility of 1-2 more studs. And if guys like Roach, Steward, and Moore return, we will be in great shape, combining more experience than usual with a star-studded freshman group.

As for this year, I disagree on the potential. We have now two guys capable of first-team All-ACC level, and a third playing on the fringe of third-team level. That alone should keep us competitive. What we lack is cohesion and decision-making, along with few good shooters. Hopefully Coach K can get Roach to stop shooting so many 3s (he seems to have gotten the ballhandling message to Moore) and we build the offense around Johnson and Hurt.

It isn’t likely to be a vintage Duke team for sure. And there is a very real chance we miss the dance. But I do think there is more talent here than you are giving credit for.

While it’s true this year we have some nice individual pieces, it’s also apparent they don’t come together to form a cohesive team. At least not yet anyway and not to the level we are used to at Duke.

[Billy Dat]

Yet another: after a nice steal and attacking in transition why throw a long pass to Tape? Even if he manages a clean catch, what is he going to do with the ball in that position? I could go on, but the theme is that these young guys are learning on the fly, and are paying for it. It will take time and repetitions, and the season is getting short.

You hit upon a key topic here. Our young guys make these kinds of mistakes all the time. The Johnson to Tape attempted fast break is a good one. Another is DJ driving the lane and as I am yelling for him to take a floater, he attempts to dump it off to Goldwire who is right under the rim, among the trees. I think we all know at this point that unless Jordan has a wide open uncontested lay-up (and even those are dicey), or a feet-set squared up uncontested 3 from the wing, he's probably not the right guy to pass to. Roach did the same thing in the second half, I can't remember the sequence but it was in the halfcourt and maybe the target was, again, Goldwire, but I was, again, yelling at the screen, "The PG needs to know who to pass to when, and who not to!!!"

They are young, they are learning, serenity now...

[rsvman]

What can I say that hasn't already been said? Y'all saw the same game that I saw.

THE GOOD
Jalen Johnson can flat-out beast. This should close the mouths of those who said he couldn't play well against decent competition, or that his flashes of brilliance were just a fluke. The guy is a baller. Foul trouble and the injury has hidden that fact from some people, but it's no secret anymore.

Moore looked like a solid ACC player out there and did exactly what we need him to do. His relative maturity on the court was also very welcome.

THE BAD
Team defense was not very good. How to you allow Sham-penny open looks when he's one of only two guys on their team that was hot? It happened over and over again.

Guard shooting/outside shooting in general. Horrible. We had some good looks, and also some forced shots; outcome was the same regardless.

"Big guys that don't start." Collectively, they weren't good. Offensively they don't go up strong enough. On defense their rotations are too slow.

THE UGLY
Baker. I've been a big proponent of Baker, and he played well against Virginia Tech, but holy crap he was awful last night.

Spotting the other team 8-14 points in every single game. THIS HAS GOT TO STOP! For the life of me I can't understand why they come out looking like they're not really sure which sport is being played. After spotting the other team a sizable lead, we generally play them even for the rest of the game, proving that we are just as good as the other team. Why do we want to start the game in the hole, over and over again? I just don't understand what is happening. If Coach K understood it, he would've solved it by now, so I suspect he is just as flummoxed as we are.

[gumbomoop]

I was glad to see Coach K being blunt in some of his criticisms.

Just a few comments about individual players. Following the constructive criticism standard, I’ll be less blunt than K.

Goldwire — Because his offense is improved but still limited, going zone plays against his great strength in m2m. I’d prefer more m2m, with some full-court pressing, to maximize Goldwire’s excellent D.

Brakefield — Among other players, K’s reference to that quick timeout was aimed at Brakefield, who entered the doghouse, I hope only temporarily.

Baker — I am always surprised when perimeter players do not improve their handle over several years. For me, dribbling is the single most important skill for perimeter players. Good handle provides O-rhythm, which Baker lacks. Opposing coaches know his handle is weak, and so instruct players to crowd him. Baker makes a good hustle play or two every game.

Williams — Seems lost on D as much as on O. Perhaps he will have good moments as shot-blocker this season, but he’s a promising project for now.

Tapé — So Tapé seems likely to see his minutes increase. I don’t see an ACC-level player, but he can contribute a bit. His experience probably puts him ahead of Williams going forward.

Rotation — If K sticks mostly with m2m, I would expect 6 players to average 30+ mpg, leaving 15-20 mpg to the other 5 guys. In any game, a couple of those 5 might get 8-10 minutes. I suspect Coleman and Williams will not play much. Brakefield, Baker, and Tapé will be our bench. Moore probably 6th man/starter.

If K decides this has to be a zone team, I’ll be disappointed, as I do enjoy watching Goldwire’s D.

[FerryFor50]

I think this was a blip, but he clearly wasn’t effective last night. Perhaps it was the zone neutering his skill set (basically on-ball defense). Louisville seems like a good target for a zone too, so if we go zone and he struggles again his minutes could get slashed again. Worth keeping an eye on.

I will say though that if Baker continues to play poorly it will be hard to keep Goldwire on the bench.

Baker manages to have 1 or 2 fantastic defensive hustle plays every game, but seems to negate it with a turnover or a bad shooting foul.

Love his motor, but he needs to learn how to control it better.

[azzefkram]

A disappointing loss but I thought Duke played well for most of the game. Jalen and Wendell had great games. Matt had an okay game. DJ had a less than okay but not dreadful game. Everyone else was dreadful. I am definitely not pessimistic about this team's potential but I wouldn't call myself optimistic as it's getting late early. The dreadful stretches of play need to find the exit in an expedient manner. If those stretches could be merely bad as opposed to dreadful, I think this team could make some noise.

This team needs to learn to string together good plays.

[UrinalCake]

I agree with most of the comments that have already been made. Really didn't understand the use of the zone or why we stuck with it so long after giving up 43 points in the first half. My guess is that K wanted to prevent us from picking up so many fouls (it didn't) and maybe protect Johnson from being exposed defensively since he hasn't had as much practice. It also let us play a bigger lineup. But it allowed Pitt to find the gaps and have wide open looks all game long. It also took us away from our full court pressure which is really the best thing that we do, perhaps the only thing we do really well as a team.

Johnson's performance gives us reason for optimism, he showed why he was an elite recruit and his absence certainly impacted us even though he wasn't dominating prior to his injury. He made some sick passes, not just the behind the head out of a triple team but also a kickout prior to that when he overpenetrated and was surrounded in the lane yet still managed to get the ball out to an open shooter. His court vision and passing are really excellent and I agree that we need to run the offense through him since neither Roach nor Steward play like natural point guards. I do wonder how much of Hurt's quiet game was related to having to adjust to having Johnson back. Hopefully they can grow and find ways to keep both involved. Hurt was also in foul trouble all game, keeping him and Johnson out of foul trouble is going to be a recurring theme this season I suspect.

The overall flow of the game felt very similar to VT - fall behind early, claw our way back, briefly take the lead (or in the case of VT come within a point) only to have them pull away to close it out. Roach's missed layup leading to Johnson fouling out was pretty much the nail in the coffin. He hits that and it's a two point game and we keep our momentum going. Baker's performance was a real bummer, he had that bad turnover off an inbounds and another bad pass at his teammate's feet that led to a pick six the other way. I think his confidence is down and the mistakes are compounding on themselves much like what Moore went through earlier.

As a fan I'm just taking things one game at a time. Expectations are low but I still enjoy watching the team and will always root for them no matter what.

[jv001]

Just a few comments about individual players. Following the constructive criticism standard, I’ll be less blunt than K.

Goldwire — Because his offense is improved but still limited, going zone plays against his great strength in m2m. I’d prefer more m2m, with some full-court pressing, to maximize Goldwire’s excellent D.

Brakefield — Among other players, K’s reference to that quick timeout was aimed at Brakefield, who entered the doghouse, I hope only temporarily.

Baker — I am always surprised when perimeter players do not improve their handle over several years. For me, dribbling is the single most important skill for perimeter players. Good handle provides O-rhythm, which Baker lacks. Opposing coaches know his handle is weak, and so instruct players to crowd him. Baker makes a good hustle play or two every game.

Williams — Seems lost on D as much as on O. Perhaps he will have good moments as shot-blocker this season, but he’s a promising project for now.

Tapé — So Tapé seems likely to see his minutes increase. I don’t see an ACC-level player, but he can contribute a bit. His experience probably puts him ahead of Williams going forward.

Rotation — If K sticks mostly with m2m, I would expect 6 players to average 30+ mpg, leaving 15-20 mpg to the other 5 guys. In any game, a couple of those 5 might get 8-10 minutes. I suspect Coleman and Williams will not play much. Brakefield, Baker, and Tapé will be our bench. Moore probably 6th man/starter.

If K decides this has to be a zone team, I’ll be disappointed, as I do enjoy watching Goldwire’s D.

You and I may be disappointed about the use of zone. I'm pretty sure Coach K said in his presser that the zone would be part of the team's defense the rest of the season. This really limits Goldwire's contributions to the team. The zone defense I saw last night was a disaster.

GoDuke!

[SouthernDukie]

Roach's missed layup leading to Johnson fouling out was pretty much the nail in the coffin. He hits that and it's a two point game and we keep our momentum going...

As a fan I'm just taking things one game at a time. Expectations are low but I still enjoy watching the team and will always root for them no matter what.

The missed layup and subsequent Jalen foul-out was a key moment in the game. Like you, I think we have a shot at pulling out the win if Roach can get that relatively easy shot to go in. A shame to be sure.

I'm also in the same boat you are in terms of expectations. Still thinking anything above a .500 record will have to be considered a plus for this particular Blue Devils team.

Some ups and downs in game, which we all know is going to be the norm when you have such a young team. The potential is there for a late season surge if all these guys can continue to grow and eliminate the small mistakes. But there's no predicting that one way or the other. So I'm just going to enjoy the ride and keep my expectations low for the time being.

[DukieInBrasil]

yet again Duke lost by less than the deficit they created right out of the gates: down by 8 less than 3 minutes into the game. Sorry, but that's a coaching thing, somehow or another the coaching staff is just not getting thru to this collection of players as to how to start a game withe energy and focus necessary to win. Also, we missed more FTs than the final difference. The main things i see about this Duke squad are 1) they are still a collection of players and not a team and 2) they haven't figure out how to do the little things that make winning basketball. For example, immediately after Hurt hit the 3 that put Duke up, the team gave up a 3 less than 5 seconds later that gave Pitt back the lead which they never relinquished again.
The Jaemyn Brakefield Experiment has finally come to an end. He had a nice little hot streak for a bit, but has been ice cold ever since the team started looking to him for production.
With all this supposed depth, we don't really have enough players to utilize a legitimate 6.5 man rotation, with Brakefield being the 0.5. Williams, Baker and Tapé are not ACC level bench players at the moment.
Otoh, we did see some good things in the loss. Jalen is back and payed like a stud, and i can't imagine him not starting anymore.
Wendell Moore put up a very nice game, and i hope that this is an indicator that he and the coaching staff have found ways to maximize his skills. JJ driving and kicking to a wide-open Moore worked well. Despite being horrid from 3, Roach played well driving to the rim. Otoh, our PG having more turns than assists and fouling out are not conducive to winning.

[UrinalCake]

Speaking of coaching, how about a shout out to Capel for what I thought was an excellent job? His team was not expecting the zone, and they probably weren't prepared for Johnson to come on so strong in his first full game back, but they made adjustments in game and took advantage of what Duke gave them. All signs of good coaching. They focused their defense on Hurt, knowing that nobody else on the team was likely to do much damage, and put in a zone of their own when they knew we couldn't hit shots.

Capel has signed significantly fewer elite recruits than K since taking over at Pitt, yet he just beat K in a fairly solid win. If we're keeping a tally on who might eventually take over, he scored some big points last night at least in my book

[rsvman]

Speaking of coaching, how about a shout out to Capel for what I thought was an excellent job? His team was not expecting the zone, and they probably weren't prepared for Johnson to come on so strong in his first full game back, but they made adjustments in game and took advantage of what Duke gave them. All signs of good coaching. They focused their defense on Hurt, knowing that nobody else on the team was likely to do much damage, and put in a zone of their own when they knew we couldn't hit shots.

Capel has signed significantly fewer elite recruits than K since taking over at Pitt, yet he just beat K in a fairly solid win. If we're keeping a tally on who might eventually take over, he scored some big points last night at least in my book

I sincerely hope he is not K's successor. I agree that he did a good job last night and that, overall, he has done pretty well at Pitt, which is not a recruiting mecca (although Jamie Dixon was much more successful). I just don't think Capel's body of work is all that impressive. Yes, he is a capable coach, but he is not an excellent one (in my opinion); if he is, he hasn't shown it convincingly yet.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I sincerely hope he is not K's successor. I agree that he did a good job last night and that, overall, he has done pretty well at Pitt, which is not a recruiting mecca (although Jamie Dixon was much more successful). I just don't think Capel's body of work is all that impressive. Yes, he is a capable coach, but he is not an excellent one (in my opinion); if he is, he hasn't shown it convincingly yet.

We haven't had a deep dive into succession for a little bit. I saw a ESPN+ article that was about next coaches at Duke and UNC. I don't have the subscription, but I also doubt there was anything new or of note.

[sagegrouse]

yet again Duke lost by less than the deficit they created right out of the gates: down by 8 less than 3 minutes into the game. Sorry, but that's a coaching thing, somehow or another the coaching staff is just not getting thru to this collection of players as to how to start a game withe energy and focus necessary to win. Also, we missed more FTs than the final difference. The main things i see about this Duke squad are 1) they are still a collection of players and not a team and 2) they haven't figure out how to do the little things that make winning basketball. For example, immediately after Hurt hit the 3 that put Duke up, the team gave up a 3 less than 5 seconds later that gave Pitt back the lead which they never relinquished again.
The Jaemyn Brakefield Experiment has finally come to an end. He had a nice little hot streak for a bit, but has been ice cold ever since the team started looking to him for production.
With all this supposed depth, we don't really have enough players to utilize a legitimate 6.5 man rotation, with Brakefield being the 0.5. Williams, Baker and Tapé are not ACC level bench players at the moment.
Otoh, we did see some good things in the loss. Jalen is back and payed like a stud, and i can't imagine him not starting anymore.
Wendell Moore put up a very nice game, and i hope that this is an indicator that he and the coaching staff have found ways to maximize his skills. JJ driving and kicking to a wide-open Moore worked well. Despite being horrid from 3, Roach played well driving to the rim. Otoh, our PG having more turns than assists and fouling out are not conducive to winning.

Just gonna post the same thing. "Stage fright" is a fatal disease on the basketball court. We went down 0-8 from the git-go. Then, in the second half we gave up the first five points to trail by 14 points. Oh, g-r-r-r-eat!! A freshman-laden team has to dig out of a massive hole on the road against a good team. Almost never.

The team has to GROW UP!!