NFL Playoffs 2021

[Acymetric]

None of this discussion makes any sense. If the offensive team gets the ball back when a ball goes out in the endzone, that means a loose ball in the end zone goes from a 50/50 ball to about 70/30, as one team doesn't need to possess the ball but to possess the ball or knock it out of bounds while the other has to control it.

Well, batting the ball would still be a penalty so knocking the ball out of bounds on purpose would be a no go. I'll point out that a fumble in your own endzone is basically 100% in favor of the defense (either TD of safety), so having a fumble in your opponent's endzone being 70/30 in favor of the offense doesn't seem inherently unfair to me.

How would it be a reward? You want to score seven points and have the ball at the end zone. You lose the ball, it slips out of bounds. It would be incredibly hard to do on purpose, and would also be against the intent of scoring seven points. Back it up to the twenty, reset downs.

At the very least you would have to have a different rule for 4th down. 4th and goal from the 3. RB fumbles the ball out the end zone before crossing the goal line...and the team gets a fresh set of downs 1st and 10 from the 20? If that isn't a reward I don't know what is, even if it would be next to impossible (and, as you mentioned, impractical) to pull off on purpose. I would argue it is probably still unfair on 3rd down, where the defense has forced a 4th down and potentially a field goal, but now instead because they forced a fumble instead of just stopping the guy the offense gets a fresh start from the 20 to try and score a TD.

I stand by either putting the ball at the original line of scrimmage or putting it at the spot of the foul and advancing the downs like a normal play. I could even see a fumble out the endzone being a 5-10 yard penalty. We agree it shouldn't be a frigging touchback at least. This rule has driven me crazy every time it has happened in a game.

[Acymetric]

None of this discussion makes any sense. If the offensive team gets the ball back when a ball goes out in the endzone, that means a loose ball in the end zone goes from a 50/50 ball to about 70/30, as one team doesn't need to possess the ball but to possess the ball or knock it out of bounds while the other has to control it.

Well, batting the ball would still be a penalty so knocking the ball out of bounds on purpose would be a no go. I'll point out that a fumble in your own endzone is basically 100% in favor of the defense (either TD of safety), so having a fumble in your opponent's endzone being 70/30 in favor of the offense doesn't seem inherently unfair to me.

Wanted to add one more thought that I realized thinking about this a little more. It is already the 70/30 split you complain about here, just in favor of the defense instead of the offense (defense can recover or knock it out of bounds, offense has to actually recover).

[AZLA]

Well, batting the ball would still be a penalty so knocking the ball out of bounds on purpose would be a no go. I'll point out that a fumble in your own endzone is basically 100% in favor of the defense (either TD of safety), so having a fumble in your opponent's endzone being 70/30 in favor of the offense doesn't seem inherently unfair to me.


At the very least you would have to have a different rule for 4th down. 4th and goal from the 3. RB fumbles the ball out the end zone before crossing the goal line...and the team gets a fresh set of downs 1st and 10 from the 20? If that isn't a reward I don't know what is, even if it would be next to impossible (and, as you mentioned, impractical) to pull off on purpose. I would argue it is probably still unfair on 3rd down, where the defense has forced a 4th down and potentially a field goal, but now instead because they forced a fumble instead of just stopping the guy the offense gets a fresh start from the 20 to try and score a TD.

I stand by either putting the ball at the original line of scrimmage or putting it at the spot of the foul and advancing the downs like a normal play. I could even see a fumble out the endzone being a 5-10 yard penalty. We agree it shouldn't be a frigging touchback at least. This rule has driven me crazy every time it has happened in a game.

Respect your opinion. But the rule is great. Football is not just about offense but defense, and defending your goal line. Today’s game rules are skewed heavily to reward offense and scoring, which is why it has become a passing league. If an offense player is about to score a TD but looses possession and the ball goes into the end zone, and if an offensive player recovers, they score 6 points with the option to go for 1 or 2 more. Kinda unfair. In rugby for example the ball would be taken far back on the pitch and still in the offense’s possession. In football it’s 7 points. Where as defense only gets it at their 20 yard line. This heavily favors and rewards the offense if they regain control. If the ball is fumbled by offense anywhere else football, the rule favors the offense, and they not only get it back, they get it back where it went out if it’s anywhere else on the field besides the end zone. Out of 120 yards of the field, for 100 of yards of it, the offense is rewarded with the ball. The end zone is what the defense is defending — it’s their last stand — and considering how rewarded offense is by the rules and that it is so rare and they get less than 17% out of bounds ruling for the entire field — this is the last equalizer for Defense that they have. And it’s a great rule in my opinion. That being said the hit wouldn’t have been flagged even a few years ago, but it was clearly targeting and Cleveland should have been awarded the ball based at the point of foul.

Lastly, same for basketball, if there’s a tie up for a ball, there should not be a possession arrow or jump ball — I believe that defense should always be awarded the ball. Just an opinion.

[Steven43]

I don't feel quite as strongly as you do, but I am definitely feeling some Patrick Mahomes fatigue, they are pushing him hard as the face of the NFL.

You may have noticed a Baker Mayfield commercial or two (hundred).

Oh, and lest I forget, there have been so many Aaron Rodgers commercials over the past five years that it seems like there is a channel devoted solely to him.

[Acymetric]

You may have noticed a Baker Mayfield commercial or two (hundred).

Oh, and lest I forget, there have been so many Aaron Rodgers commercials over the past five years that it seems like there is a channel devoted solely to him.

The Mahomes thing isn't just about the commercials, or even about the commercials at all. Mahomes is a point of conversation in basically every NFL broadcast I've watched this year. He is everywhere​. I happen to like both the Baker and Mahomes commercials, to be honest.

[Acymetric]

Respect your opinion. But the rule is great. Football is not just about offense but defense, and defending your goal line. Today’s game rules are skewed heavily to reward offense and scoring, which is why it has become a passing league. If an offense player is about to score a TD but looses possession and the ball goes into the end zone, and if an offensive player recovers, they score 6 points with the option to go for 1 or 2 more. Kinda unfair. In rugby for example the ball would be taken far back on the pitch and still in the offense’s possession. In football it’s 7 points. Where as defense only gets it at their 20 yard line. This heavily favors and rewards the offense if they regain control. If the ball is fumbled by offense anywhere else football, the rule favors the offense, and they not only get it back, they get it back where it went out if it’s anywhere else on the field besides the end zone. Out of 120 yards of the field, for 100 of yards of it, the offense is rewarded with the ball. The end zone is what the defense is defending — it’s their last stand — and considering how rewarded offense is by the rules and that it is so rare and they get less than 17% out of bounds ruling for the entire field — this is the last equalizer for Defense that they have. And it’s a great rule in my opinion. That being said the hit wouldn’t have been flagged even a few years ago, but it was clearly targeting and Cleveland should have been awarded the ball based at the point of foul.

Lastly, same for basketball, if there’s a tie up for a ball, there should not be a possession arrow or jump ball — I believe that defense should always be awarded the ball. Just an opinion.

You say "If the ball is fumbled by offense anywhere else football, the rule favors the offense" but the defense benefits heavily from fumbles in both end zones (in huge, game changing ways), not just when the offense is in scoring position in the opposing end zone.

[Steven43]

The Mahomes thing isn't just about the commercials, or even about the commercials at all. Mahomes is a point of conversation in basically every NFL broadcast I've watched this year. He is everywhere​. I happen to like both the Baker and Mahomes commercials, to be honest.

I like the commercials just fine, especially the ones with Rodgers.

But in regard to the NFL promoting Patrick Mahomes, well, he deserves it. He’s probably the best player in the league (Rodgers is right there with him) and will be for the next decade or even longer. And he’s very likable and humble. What’s not to like?

[Acymetric]

I like the commercials just fine, especially the ones with Rodgers.

But in regard to the NFL promoting Patrick Mahomes, well, he deserves it. He’s probably the best player in the league (Rodgers is right there with him) and will be for the next decade or even longer. And he’s very likable and humble. What’s not to like?

There is nothing unlikable about Mahomes the person. I'm just tired of the constant coverage and fawning (and the fact that we will likely be hearing it for the next 10 years or more as long as he stays healthy makes this worse, not better). It just needs to be watered down a little bit. Historically, there have been a handful of guys that got this treatment each season, but the past two seasons it has been Mahomes, Mahomes, and Mahomes. Heck, Rodgers' MVP season is practically an afterthought. He finally started getting the acknowledgment as likely deserving of the MVP nod down the stretch this season, but even in those conversations it ends up being "Yeah, Rodgers should probably win the MVP award this year, but how about that Patrick Mahomes, huh?" I really can't remember anything like it in any sport I've followed (since I've been following it). Maybe MJ in the 90s, but I was pretty young and not following the NBA or sports media at all at that point so I don't really know. Even peak LeBron wasn't quite like this.

It doesn't appear to matter whether anyone else is playing well, so the only hope for quelling the onslaught of Mahomes coverage is for him to lose. Thus, I've been pulling against the Chiefs all postseason and will continue to do so unless they face Tampa Bay.

[SouthernDukie]

There is nothing unlikable about Mahomes the person. I'm just tired of the constant coverage and fawning (and the fact that we will likely be hearing it for the next 10 years or more as long as he stays healthy makes this worse, not better). It just needs to be watered down a little bit. Historically, there have been a handful of guys that got this treatment each season, but the past two seasons it has been Mahomes, Mahomes, and Mahomes. Heck, Rodgers' MVP season is practically an afterthought. He finally started getting the acknowledgment as likely deserving of the MVP nod down the stretch this season, but even in those conversations it ends up being "Yeah, Rodgers should probably win the MVP award this year, but how about that Patrick Mahomes, huh?" I really can't remember anything like it in any sport I've followed (since I've been following it). Maybe MJ in the 90s, but I was pretty young and not following the NBA or sports media at all at that point so I don't really know. Even peak LeBron wasn't quite like this.

It doesn't appear to matter whether anyone else is playing well, so the only hope for quelling the onslaught of Mahomes coverage is for him to lose. Thus, I've been pulling against the Chiefs all postseason and will continue to do so unless they face Tampa Bay.

BINGO! We have a winner!!!

You summed up my reason for rooting against KC (a team I almost always rooted for until now), and Mahomes in particular.

[bundabergdevil]

BINGO! We have a winner!!!

You summed up my reason for rooting against KC (a team I almost always rooted for until now), and Mahomes in particular.

They’re positioning him as THE face of the NFL. Football isn’t the star-driven sport that basketball is. When a guy like LBJ or (potentially) Zion comes along that does things people haven’t see before, it puts buts in seats, raises the value of ads, sells shoes and jerseys. The right superstar is worth billions and lifts all boats in the league sea with his appeal. Mahoney has that potential.

Y’all are right but that’s why. He’s going to make the league and everyone in it billions.

[Acymetric]

They’re positioning him as THE face of the NFL. Football isn’t the star-driven sport that basketball is. When a guy like LBJ or (potentially) Zion comes along that does things people haven’t see before, it puts buts in seats, raises the value of ads, sells shoes and jerseys. The right superstar is worth billions and lifts all boats in the league sea with his appeal. Mahoney has that potential.

Y’all are right but that’s why. He’s going to make the league and everyone in it billions.

I think the NFL is trying to make that true, but I don't think it is true. I'm not sure the excessive promotion of Mahomes does anything to raise the league's profile, because (as you noted) it just isn't a star-driven sport like basketball. The number of NBA viewers who are literally only tuning in to watch LeBron/Zion/Durant/etc. is probably pretty large. The number of NFL viewers who are only tuning in to watch Mahomes is...probably small (and getting smaller not larger now that the novelty has worn off).

Also, I'm sure it was an autocorrect thing, but I am dying at "Mahoney".

[bundabergdevil]

I think the NFL is trying to make that true, but I don't think it is true. I'm not sure the excessive promotion of Mahomes does anything to raise the league's profile, because (as you noted) it just isn't a star-driven sport like basketball. The number of NBA viewers who are literally only tuning in to watch LeBron/Zion/Durant/etc. is probably pretty large. The number of NFL viewers who are only tuning in to watch Mahomes is...probably small (and getting smaller not larger now that the novelty has worn off).

Also, I'm sure it was an autocorrect thing, but I am dying at "Mahoney".

Oh, geez. LMAO!

mahoney.jpg

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

I've never liked Brady. Maybe it's his arrogance or the stain of perceived cheating by him and his Pats coach. But I really respect his incredible clutch playing ability and amazing career. He's not very "athletic," but he just keeps on winning with his new team at age 43. He's a close runner-up to Bill Russell as the greatest winner in professional team sports.

[Acymetric]

I've never liked Brady. Maybe it's his arrogance or the stain of perceived cheating by him and his Pats coach. But I really respect his incredible clutch playing ability and amazing career. He's not very "athletic," but he just keeps on winning with his new team at age 43. He's a close runner-up to Bill Russell as the greatest winner in professional team sports.

It is really remarkable what he has done in his career, and what he is still doing now, and I wish he would stop. Honestly his play this year is a little reminiscent of Manning's final years (post surgery). His balls are still a little tighter than Peyton's were at the end, but they both kind of struggled to push the ball downfield at the end and won by being extremely cerebral and being able to pick apart defenses and make all the right throws.

[Steven43]

There is nothing unlikable about Mahomes the person. I'm just tired of the constant coverage and fawning (and the fact that we will likely be hearing it for the next 10 years or more as long as he stays healthy makes this worse, not better). It just needs to be watered down a little bit. Historically, there have been a handful of guys that got this treatment each season, but the past two seasons it has been Mahomes, Mahomes, and Mahomes. Heck, Rodgers' MVP season is practically an afterthought. He finally started getting the acknowledgment as likely deserving of the MVP nod down the stretch this season, but even in those conversations it ends up being "Yeah, Rodgers should probably win the MVP award this year, but how about that Patrick Mahomes, huh?" I really can't remember anything like it in any sport I've followed (since I've been following it). Maybe MJ in the 90s, but I was pretty young and not following the NBA or sports media at all at that point so I don't really know. Even peak LeBron wasn't quite like this.

It doesn't appear to matter whether anyone else is playing well, so the only hope for quelling the onslaught of Mahomes coverage is for him to lose. Thus, I've been pulling against the Chiefs all postseason and will continue to do so unless they face Tampa Bay.

You do understand that if it weren’t Patrick Mahomes and the Chiefs who were being promoted most vigorously it would be somebody else, right? Would you then start hating on the next guy and team that is chosen? Seems like a pointless waste of time to me.

If you’re disgruntled with the promotion of a certain player and his team I would think it more appropriate to direct your ire at the promoters rather than the promotee.

[Acymetric]

You do understand that if it weren’t Patrick Mahomes and the Chiefs who were being promoted most vigorously it would be somebody else, right? Would you then start hating on the next guy and team that is chosen? Seems like a pointless waste of time to me.

Did you read the post you quoted? I explicitly addressed that. Usually there are a handful of guys that get this treatment. This year, and to a slightly lesser extent last year, it has just been all Mahomes all the time.

If you’re disgruntled with the promotion of a certain player and his team I would think it more appropriate to direct your ire at the promoters rather than the promotee.

I will direct my ire as I please, thanks

[Steven43]

It is really remarkable what he has done in his career, and what he is still doing now, and I wish he would stop. Honestly his play this year is a little reminiscent of Manning's final years (post surgery). His balls are still a little tighter than Peyton's were at the end, but they both kind of struggled to push the ball downfield at the end and won by being extremely cerebral and being able to pick apart defenses and make all the right throws.

I have to strongly disagree with your Peyton Manning comparison. Manning, in his final couple of seasons, was an embarrassment compared to Brady right now.

Though Brady wasn’t quite as sharp yesterday against New Orleans, he was throwing absolute lasers the week before against the Redskins. Perhaps you missed that game, I don’t know.

[Acymetric]

I have to strongly disagree with your Peyton Manning comparison. Manning in his final couple of seasons was an embarrassment compared to Brady right now. Though Brady wasn’t quite as sharp yesterday against New Orleans, he was throwing absolute lasers the week before against the Redskins. Perhaps you missed that game, I don’t know.

I specifically noted that Brady is still throwing better balls than Peyton was. Please, please, read people's posts before you respond to them. That's twice in a row that I explicitly addressed your exact objection in the very post you were quoting.

Having said that, Brady's downfield stats are atrocious this year. Not just by Brady's standards, but by the standards of any starting QB. He is winning by picking apart defenses on short throws with very little in the way of deep balls. That he is able to do this without the benefit of any real deep ball to speak of makes it (unfortunately) all the more impressive. The comparison is that both guys managed to continue to succeed despite an apparent decline in physical ability (yes, Peyton declined more than Brady has so far) due to their instincts/knowledge of the game. That was the point and comparison I was making.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I specifically noted that Brady is still throwing better balls than Peyton was. Please, please, read people's posts before you respond to them. That's twice in a row that I explicitly addressed your exact objection in the very post you were quoting.

Having said that, Brady's downfield stats are atrocious this year. Not just by Brady's standards, but by the standards of any starting QB. He is winning by picking apart defenses on short throws with very little in the way of deep balls. That he is able to do this without the benefit of any real deep ball to speak of makes it (unfortunately) all the more impressive. The comparison is that both guys managed to continue to succeed despite an apparent decline in physical ability (yes, Peyton declined more than Brady has so far) due to their instincts/knowledge of the game. That was the point and comparison I was making.

Remember back when this board had a basketball team we used to discuss?

[Acymetric]

Remember back when this board had a basketball team we used to discuss?

Is that the game where players throw each other through apple baskets or something? I think I remember hearing about it once.