NFL Playoffs 2021

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

What did the DC do wrong on that play before the half? Wasn’t it simply a matter of the DB getting beat?

Chris Collinsworth was on Dan Patrick this morning. He said the way that play makes sense from the TB perspective is that the defense assumes you are running a quick out for a few yards to get in FG range, which might allow someone to get open. In reality, he said that GB's defense was so bad that they could have done either against that set.

Sounds like a really bad play call, not just one guy getting beat.

[kshepinthehouse]

What did the DC do wrong on that play before the half? Wasn’t it simply a matter of the DB getting beat?

It was more a case of a terrible DB getting beat who was getting beat all game (#20)

[sagegrouse]

If I, as an attorney, advised my client to destroy a phone that had potentially relevant evidence to an ongoing legal dispute (we already know it had relevant evidence from the texts that came out), not only would I expect a spoliation adverse inference instruction against my client, but I would expect to be sanctioned personally. I am confident that Brady's attorneys at least prepared a CYA memo to him advising him to preserve all potentially relevant evidence, including electronic evidence, and to suspend any routine measures that would destroy such evidence, such as destroying cell phones every 3 months. In fact, I have had a federal judge issue sanctions to opposing counsel and a third-party witness in a case based on a conveniently disappeared cell phone.

I don't disagree with what you say, but I don't think it applies to this case.

• The Colts complained about underinflated footballs six years ago in the AFC championship.
• The NFL said 11 footballs used in the game were underinflated.
• The NFL arranged for an investigation (Ted Wells) that produced a semi-volumnious report (I've worked around government forever and use the term "voluminous" with knowledge of what it really means).
• Goodell in July suspended Brady for four games. Among other things, He cited lack of cooperation and failure to turn over his phone.
• Brady sued and won in federal court in September; the judge citing procedural deficiencies. The NFL appealed and won the following June, the opinion citing Goodell's power to discipline.

On Brady's behalf, I would say that Goodell is not a judge and doesn't have subpoena power, so your impressive and impassioned statement doesn't really apply.
Brady has a colorable argument -- the phone was broken (no mention of a dog).

And as the trial judge noted, there was little evidence of Brady's direct involvement.

The power to discipline in this manner should never have been granted to the Commish -- he ran a flawed process and then proceeded to throw his weight around by suspending Brady, when there was no evidence of his direct involvement or knowledge -- "more probable than not," said the Wells report. C'mon! The new CBA leaves with the right to decide appeals but creates a discipline structure:

The CBA creates a “Disciplinary Officer” position for the initial decisions. Those decisions are then subject to appeal to the Commissioner, and either side may appeal the Disciplinary Officer’s final rulings.

Anyway, I'm done on this subject.

Kindly,
Sage Grouse
'Adam Silver of the NBA would have had no problem running a fair investigation and reaching a conclusion that appeared fair. Goodell did not do so, IMHO (where the H for hydrogen just dissipated into the atmosphere)'

[JasonEvans]

I think you should definitely make a pie bet rather than the loser not posting for awhile. I like reading both of your posts. Why deprive DBR of a pretty darn good poster for a couple of weeks?

I agree that losing a good poster for 2 weeks is a terrible idea. It penalizes all of DBR. So, there is another option that I have employed (my wife hates pie bets because they make me fat). You make a wager where the loser has to sing the praises of the winner in DBR posts for a week or 2 weeks. So, this does not cut down on your ability to chat with the DBR community, but every time you do chat, your post is peppered with talk of how great SouthernDukie/Troublemaker is. Think it over gents, it is enjoyable.

[moonpie23]

how about an apparel bet? one can wear the other's team jersey/hat/T for 2 weeks....oh, and DOCUMENT it every day in a public photo....

[Pghdukie]

I think we could have the start of DBR's version of the "Walton Belt" Think about it ! It could go a long way !

[Saratoga2]

I don't disagree with what you say, but I don't think it applies to this case.

• The Colts complained about underinflated footballs six years ago in the AFC championship.
• The NFL said 11 footballs used in the game were underinflated.
• The NFL arranged for an investigation (Ted Wells) that produced a semi-volumnious report (I've worked around government forever and use the term "voluminous" with knowledge of what it really means).
• Goodell in July suspended Brady for four games. Among other things, He cited lack of cooperation and failure to turn over his phone.
• Brady sued and won in federal court in September; the judge citing procedural deficiencies. The NFL appealed and won the following June, the opinion citing Goodell's power to discipline.

On Brady's behalf, I would say that Goodell is not a judge and doesn't have subpoena power, so your impressive and impassioned statement doesn't really apply.
Brady has a colorable argument -- the phone was broken (no mention of a dog).

And as the trial judge noted, there was little evidence of Brady's direct involvement.

The power to discipline in this manner should never have been granted to the Commish -- he ran a flawed process and then proceeded to throw his weight around by suspending Brady, when there was no evidence of his direct involvement or knowledge -- "more probable than not," said the Wells report. C'mon! The new CBA leaves with the right to decide appeals but creates a discipline structure:


Anyway, I'm done on this subject.

Kindly,
Sage Grouse
'Adam Silver of the NBA would have had no problem running a fair investigation and reaching a conclusion that appeared fair. Goodell did not do so, IMHO (where the H for hydrogen just dissipated into the atmosphere)'

When Dan Shaughnessy of the Boston Globe published an article that I found Uninformed, I send a reply which advised him of the universal gas law. Balls brought outside into the cold could easily have lost enough air pressure to put them below the minimum NFL limit. Furthermore, the one ball that was inflated much lower had been substituted in by an NFL employee who wanted an official ball for a souvenir. That the Commish was out to get the Patriots along with many of the owners who were jealous of the Patriots success, seemed the much more likely reason.

As far as cell phone records, would you have turned your phone over to a bunch of NYC lawyers? He probably rightly felt they would leak any of his personal information to the press. As I remember, Brady was under no legal stipulation to turn over his records. This was a witch hunt to smear one of the truly great NFL players.

[Duke79UNLV77]

When Dan Shaughnessy of the Boston Globe published an article that I found Uninformed, I send a reply which advised him of the universal gas law. Balls brought outside into the cold could easily have lost enough air pressure to put them below the minimum NFL limit. Furthermore, the one ball that was inflated much lower had been substituted in by an NFL employee who wanted an official ball for a souvenir. That the Commish was out to get the Patriots along with many of the owners who were jealous of the Patriots success, seemed the much more likely reason.

As far as cell phone records, would you have turned your phone over to a bunch of NYC lawyers? He probably rightly felt they would leak any of his personal information to the press. As I remember, Brady was under no legal stipulation to turn over his records. This was a witch hunt to smear one of the truly great NFL players.

The Patriots footballs somehow lost more weight than their opponents? Other teams had complained about this, along with various other Patriots/Brady hijinks, before? The Harvard study showing a statistically significant advantage for the Patriots over multiple years compared to the rest of the league, and the same players when playing elsewhere, means nothing? Yes, I would have preserved my phone and turned it over in a legal proceeding when it clearly had relevant evidence. It was a NY federal judge that I got to issue sanction against opposing counsel and a witness for conveniently losing a cell phone before. The last thing the NFL wanted to do was target its most successful team, coach, and QB. When people have been caught cheating repeatedly with consequences that don't come close to matching the reward, I assume they are still cheating in some manner. See basketball, unc.

[Acymetric]

I can understand Patriots fans saying that the various cheating they did wasn't that big a deal, or that everyone was doing it, even if I don't think either is true. Flat out saying it didn't happen? You've completely lost me.

[Steven43]

The Patriots footballs somehow lost more weight than their opponents? Other teams had complained about this, along with various other Patriots/Brady hijinks, before? The Harvard study showing a statistically significant advantage for the Patriots over multiple years compared to the rest of the league, and the same players when playing elsewhere, means nothing? Yes, I would have preserved my phone and turned it over in a legal proceeding when it clearly had relevant evidence. It was a NY federal judge that I got to issue sanction against opposing counsel and a witness for conveniently losing a cell phone before. The last thing the NFL wanted to do was target its most successful team, coach, and QB. When people have been caught cheating repeatedly with consequences that don't come close to matching the reward, I assume they are still cheating in some manner. See basketball, unc.

If a QB adjusting the air pressure up or down in his footballs is cheating, then 90-plus% of QBs and teams in the NFL are guilty of cheating. Seriously, it’s that widespread of a practice.

I wish we could move past this.

[Acymetric]

If a QB adjusting the air pressure up or down in his footballs is cheating, then 90-plus% of QBs and teams in the NFL are guilty of cheating. Seriously, it’s that widespread of a practice.

Beyond the minimum/maximum levels allowed by the NFL? Any evidence/source for this claim, or should we just take your word for it?

[Steven43]

Beyond the minimum/maximum levels allowed by the NFL? Any evidence/source for this claim, or should we just take your word for it?

Look it up; the information is out there. And I remember QB after QB saying as much back when the silly Deflategate” melodrama was going on. The whole thing was nothing more than a “Let’s get the Patriots!” witch-hunt by those who had been repeatedly beaten by them.

And I’m no Patriot fan; I rooted against them in every Super Bowl in the 2000’s. But even though I wanted them to lose, I understood the air pressure issue was inconsequential nonsense.

[budwom]

Were we to apply the deflategate standard of outrage to Hall of Fame baseball pitchers who acknowledged that they often "doctored" the ball (spit, vaseline, pine tar, abrasives) we might have to remove a wing from the Hall and open up a Wendy's in its place.

[elvis14]

It was more a case of a terrible DB getting beat who was getting beat all game (#20)

What did the DC do wrong on that play before the half? Wasn’t it simply a matter of the DB getting beat?

There were two issues with that play WRT the defensive secondary. First, yes, the DB guarding the player got beat deep at a time when you don't give beat deep (give a big cushion and give up the throw underneath). The second problem was that he didn't have proper help over the top. There is no way a safety should have not helped over the top. Again, with time that was left, you can't let that happen. So I don't know if that was 2 guys (CB and S) who screwed up or if there was a scheme problem where the Safety wasn't lined up deep enough and wasn't instructed to no worry about underneath, just stay deeper than the deepest guy.

I played competitive flag for decades. I still remember feeling a bit helpless when playing CB across from a guy who had the Olympic rings tattooed on his arm because he ran track for the USA. I was easily giving him a 15 yard cushion, and giving up the 5 yard stop (and I was scared to death that he'd take that 5 yards stop to the house!). CB is a tough spot and speed is a killer (and the GB players and coaches should know that).

Mahomes is clearly an amazing talent, but like others, I wonder about what longevity he can enjoy given his style...maybe he adjusts as he ages.

And I still insist that Andy Reid is really Wilford Brimley.

Perhaps Andy and Wilford are really brothers! As for Mahomes, I don't worry too much about his longevity. I know he got knocked of a playoff game but when I've watched him he does a nice job of being mobile without taking too many big hits. Plus as you suggest, as he gets older he can make adjustments (sliding sooner to avoid hits, and running less). He throws such a great ball that I think he could be very good for a ver long time and just let his game age with him.

I hope the Chiefs can win again, I'm just tired of hearing about TB12. MF threw interceptions on 3 consecutive drives late on Sunday and GB came away with 6 points. TBbay's O-Line and defense have been fantastic and they have talent all over the field. Of course you haven't heard about that talent much (I mean Mike Evans won Johnny Football a Heisman!), all that is being covered is TB12. I give Tampy Bay credit, they have been very good in the playoffs.

On the positive side, I like Andy Reid, Mahomes, Kelce, Hill and my Clemson guy Sammy Watkins, etc so I'm not just rooting against the Bucs and the coverage of TB12, I'm rooting for these guys!

[Steven43]

I hope the Chiefs can win again, I'm just tired of hearing about TB12. MF threw interceptions on 3 consecutive drives late on Sunday and GB came away with 6 points. TBbay's O-Line and defense have been fantastic and they have talent all over the field. Of course you haven't heard about that talent much (I mean Mike Evans won Johnny Football a Heisman!), all that is being covered is TB12. I give Tampy Bay credit, they have been very good in the playoffs.

On the positive side, I like Andy Reid, Mahomes, Kelce, Hill and my Clemson guy Sammy Watkins, etc so I'm not just rooting against the Bucs and the coverage of TB12, I'm rooting for these guys!

I have to disagree with you a bit. I have heard Tampa Bay’s defense getting strong praise on every sports podcast I have been listening to and in every NFL football-related article I have read recently. The credit is not solely going to Tom Brady.

One can’t simply look at interceptions in a box score and make a judgement. Not that you necessarily are doing that, I’m just saying. Anyway from what I recall, two of those interceptions were not really his fault. Beyond that he played incredibly well in the first half and set a winning tone for his team.

He was the leader. He was the most important player on the field in both tangible and intangible ways. Without Tom Brady they would have lost the game. In fact, without him they would not have made the playoffs at all, just like they hadn’t since 2007. With him they are only one game away from winning the Super Bowl.

[budwom]

I love the fact that I absolutely don't care who wins, just hope for a good game...biggest issue for me will be choice of foods and beverages. Singed flesh of some sort is probably mandatory, right?

[Acymetric]

Were we to apply the deflategate standard of outrage to Hall of Fame baseball pitchers who acknowledged that they often "doctored" the ball (spit, vaseline, pine tar, abrasives) we might have to remove a wing from the Hall and open up a Wendy's in its place.

I for one am not saying he should be excluded from the Hall of Fame over it. That doesn't mean it can't factor in to my personal view of his career. He still would have been the most successful QB of all time without the cheating, which is what makes it so stupid.

[Steven43]

I love the fact that I absolutely don't care who wins, just hope for a good game...biggest issue for me will be choice of foods and beverages. Singed flesh of some sort is probably mandatory, right?

I agree. This is the first Super Bowl since 2003 — Tampa Bay v Oakland — that I would be fine with either team winning. But with that game I didn’t really like either team, though I didn’t actively dislike either of them.

This Super Bowl is unique for me in that I actively have been rooting for both teams the entire season. There has never been a Super Bowl where I have felt that way. At this point I’m slightly pulling for Tampa Bay, but would be perfectly happy if the Chiefs were to win.

In fact, I was strongly rooting for the Chiefs to beat New England on January 20, 2019 in the playoffs. And they were my second choice to win the Super Bowl that season (after the Dallas Cowboys, who ended up losing to the Los Angeles Rams in a fairly close game). Unfortunately, the Patriots beat the Chiefs in overtime that day.

Then last season I was rooting for the Chiefs to go all the way once Dallas had been eliminated. I was ecstatic when they came back to beat the 49ers in the Super Bowl.

This year I have been rooting for both KC and Tampa to get to the Super Bowl once it became clear that the Cowboys, with their slew of injuries to many of their best players, weren’t going to make it. And now it’s happened. I’m really looking forward to this game; it’s a win-win for me.

[Acymetric]

For me it is the exact opposite. This is the first year I can remember where I don't want either team to win. I probably slightly prefer Mahomes, I guess.

[Steven43]

For me it is the exact opposite. This is the first year I can remember where I don't want either team to win. I probably slightly prefer Mahomes, I guess.

Wait, what??! I thought you were a HUGE Tom Brady fan. I guess I’ve completely misinterpreted your posts. 😉