Page 7 of 23 FirstFirst ... 5678917 ... LastLast
Results 121 to 140 of 444
  1. #121
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Franklin TN
    Quote Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMeDoIt View Post
    I continue to obsess about Essential Quality. I have heard several trainers and commentators talk about how you can’t be wide around both turns and expect to win. Yet he was. Was that a bad ride by an overconfident jockey? I have seen charts that show how far each horse actually travels in a race, but today I can’t seem to find one. Hopefully you can provide a link. With the exception of Baffert’s horse everything else was formful. While Mandaloun ran terrible in the Louisiana Derby, I heard a lot of talk about how he had trained in Louisville. One other observation is that the Fairgrounds horses are running lights out a Churchill Downs. I am disappointed as racing needs a super horse. I was hopeful that was EQ.

    One other comment, check out the fractions on Jackie Warriors race. Four furlongs in under 44. He would have beaten Gamine and won the race with Whitmore. I think I know the Breeder’s Cup sprint champ if he stays healthy.
    So I found the answer to my question in the DRF. Essential Quality traveled 68 feet, 8 1/2 lengths farther than Medina Spirit in the Derby. Cox still believes he was the best horse as a he was also bumped out of the gate. I haven’t seen a head on view of the horses leaving the gate, so I am not sure how severe it was. Like all of life luck plays a big part, so we will see how he performs next time out. Also reading Baffert’s comments, he was as surprised as the rest of us. He said he, Baffert, was relaxed and having a good time being out of the spotlight. Evidently so was his horse. All in all a great race with the top four all distinguishing themselves. As far a I could tell, and I am no expert, the bottom half of the finishers should go try some easier races. We will see what newcomers join in the next two races.

    One other comment is how many years until the Triple Crown Races get spaced out some more? Two weeks between the Derby and the Preakness is crazy. The best horses typically race at most about every four weeks. The best of these are multi million dollar animals. If nothing else I would think insurance costs will dictate the change. Hopefully it will not take a tragedy with a top horse dying in front of millions of television viewers to cause this change.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMeDoIt View Post
    So I found the answer to my question in the DRF. Essential Quality traveled 68 feet, 8 1/2 lengths farther than Medina Spirit in the Derby. Cox still believes he was the best horse as a he was also bumped out of the gate. I haven’t seen a head on view of the horses leaving the gate, so I am not sure how severe it was. Like all of life luck plays a big part, so we will see how he performs next time out. Also reading Baffert’s comments, he was as surprised as the rest of us. He said he, Baffert, was relaxed and having a good time being out of the spotlight. Evidently so was his horse. All in all a great race with the top four all distinguishing themselves. As far a I could tell, and I am no expert, the bottom half of the finishers should go try some easier races. We will see what newcomers join in the next two races.

    One other comment is how many years until the Triple Crown Races get spaced out some more? Two weeks between the Derby and the Preakness is crazy. The best horses typically race at most about every four weeks. The best of these are multi million dollar animals. If nothing else I would think insurance costs will dictate the change. Hopefully it will not take a tragedy with a top horse dying in front of millions of television viewers to cause this change.
    Just got back into town so I can comment.

    Keeping a horse to the outside, so they won't get locked in, is a typical and reasonable strategy, if you want to avoid getting stuck with a superior horse. Most believe EQ was that. But it is at the expense of distance as you point out. Hindsight tells us he could have used some of those 8.5 lengths. So many horses have won with those rail skimming rides Bo-Rail used to give, but then he didn't win by a nose/neck. In the Derby, traffic problems hurt more than extra distance; ask Risen Star.

    I don't think trainers have their horses in top form every time out either. Mandaloun not doing his best, the last time out, is no surprise. These horses are torqued up with feed, exercise, and (legal) medication so they are ready to roll on any particular day. But you can't do that every time they race. They would go loco. Few horses can win every time out (i.e., not with their top effort, or with top preparation).

    Beyer's from this weekend to address your discussion:
    102 - Medina Spirit # Track was fast, but he hugged the rail. Brave horse.
    105 - Maxfield # Looked like a winner all the way. Big impressive monster.
    99 - Gamine # by observation was not at her best, but won by 4
    95 - Malathaat # Won by a length under scale weight
    92 - Shedaresthedevil # Won a very competitive race by about a length
    91 - Jackie's Warrior # Was an eye-catching win, but not as impressive relative to the standard for that distance

    We'll see when the Preakness lines come out what EQ's Beyer was. I wouldn't be surprised if it was higher than Medina Spirit's; he did more to finish within a length. I immediately saw that he was slammed from his right by Highly Motivated and had to pull back then expended a lot of energy to change gears and get into stalking position. Wow. Big effort!

    We all want a big horse, but it may not be the KY Derby winner. Arrogate was not that horse. Curlin was well thought of, but didn't win the Derby. Affirmed vs. Alydar did a lot for horse racing, but Affirmed was no super horse. IMHO. If a horse wins the Triple Crown, by less than a length over a rival in each race, does that merit superhorse status? I don't think so. Win by 5 or so now and then; or near record times.

    Larry
    DevilHorse

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMeDoIt View Post
    So I found the answer to my question in the DRF. Essential Quality traveled 68 feet, 8 1/2 lengths farther than Medina Spirit in the Derby. Cox still believes he was the best horse as a he was also bumped out of the gate. I haven’t seen a head on view of the horses leaving the gate, so I am not sure how severe it was. Like all of life luck plays a big part, so we will see how he performs next time out. Also reading Baffert’s comments, he was as surprised as the rest of us. He said he, Baffert, was relaxed and having a good time being out of the spotlight. Evidently so was his horse. All in all a great race with the top four all distinguishing themselves. As far a I could tell, and I am no expert, the bottom half of the finishers should go try some easier races. We will see what newcomers join in the next two races.

    One other comment is how many years until the Triple Crown Races get spaced out some more? Two weeks between the Derby and the Preakness is crazy. The best horses typically race at most about every four weeks. The best of these are multi million dollar animals. If nothing else I would think insurance costs will dictate the change. Hopefully it will not take a tragedy with a top horse dying in front of millions of television viewers to cause this change.
    Here is a thread on twitter that points to some detail on how all of the horses traveled in the derby:
    https://twitter.com/truxtonstables/s...85211745193992

    Of course, anyone who watches basketball knows, getting strategic position in an athletic contest is all important. These things are not done in a vacuum. Even golf is not only the golfer against the course; I saw on the ESPN top ten when a golf shot ricocheted off another golfer's ball to go in. The KYD is not a Time Trial, it is a competition. Medina Spirit had the strategy and the speed to get his nose to the wire first. But there will be other days. This discussion will just create better odds on Medina Spirit in the Preakness.

    Larry
    DevilHorse

  4. #124

    Preakness Early Warm-Up

    We'll have to see what the weekend will bring for us, but in the meantime, the Preakness news is starting to filter in.

    Essential Quality will wait till the Belmont, with the Travers in mind long term:
    https://www.horseracingnation.com/ne...ossibility_123
    Oooh, does that mean that Medina Spirit goes to Baffert favorite race Haskell at Monmouth Park?

    Also, here is an early run down of possible Preakness odds, but not necessarily starters:
    https://www.horseracingnation.com/ne...ina_Spirit_123

    Larry
    DevilHorse

  5. #125
    Found something worth a look. This Saturday is the Peter Pan Stakes.
    Usually you can find a contender for the Belmont coming out of this race.
    Someone will be the winner, but will not hold a candle to the Preakness winner or horses from the KYD that skip the Preakness to run in the Belmont:
    http://www.brisnet.com/php/bw_pdf_vi...param3=1200474

    Risk Taking looks to be the favorite. But Nova Rags has gotten a couple of checks in stakes competition. Overtook may also loom on Big Sandy (nickname for Belmont's main track).

    Larry
    DevilHorse

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMeDoIt View Post
    One other comment is how many years until the Triple Crown Races get spaced out some more? Two weeks between the Derby and the Preakness is crazy. The best horses typically race at most about every four weeks. The best of these are multi million dollar animals. If nothing else I would think insurance costs will dictate the change. Hopefully it will not take a tragedy with a top horse dying in front of millions of television viewers to cause this change.
    It occurred to me, sometime in the middle of the week, that I never answered this question.

    I guess I'm a purest about some things, but not others. But on this I'd like to see the Triple Crown stay spaced the way it is.
    I was not particularly happy about them changing the sequence of the Triple Crown races last year, nor the distance of the Belmont, but I certainly understand it.

    However, not unlike in baseball (if you changed from 162 games), if you want any chance of measuring this year's potential Triple Crown champions vs. those of yesteryear, you have to even the playing field somewhat. That means they have to keep the same space of the races, and hopefully keep the races the same distance (and the weights). Not much can be done about the weather. The breed is changing a bit, but the Triple Crown IS the "yard stick" that most of the breeders use to motivate their breeding programs (not all). In general, the Thoroughbreds of today are not faster than yesteryear, and some are more prone to injury and breathing problems, there are some ankle problems bred into the population, and they just aren't as sturdy and sound as you would like, but the money in purses is a lot better so they keep breeding them because that's what they do. But I don't vote to change the standard to fit the breed. That is not what you are supposed to do when they are supposed to be breeding the horses to do better at the standard. They are screwing up if you think the Triple Crown is too tough.

    In the Standardbreds, there is a pacing and a trotting triple crown. The pacing triple crown is/was the Cane Pace, Messenger, and Little Brown Jug; all raced on Half Mile Tracks. That is twice around the oval for the "standard" one mile race. But the bigger money, and faster times were on the mile tracks. This attracted horses away from the Triple Crown races. One of the tracks that hosted a Triple Crown race (Roosevelt Raceway, hosted the Messenger) was on too valuable a piece of land in central Long Island, so it was sold off; (this happened to Garden State Park too). Now the Messenger is raced at different tracks at different times and the purse is minor league. The pacing Triple Crown is not as big a deal as other Big Money races in the sport. The Triple Crown is devalued. These other races were suggested to replace the Messenger in the Triple Crown, which didn't happen; but this is already making too many changes. I would predict that if you start to change the time between the Thoroughbred Triple Crown races, you would start to de-value that Triple Crown as well.

    Note that Essential Quality is NOT going to the Preakness because the ownership group is pointing toward the Travers, as mentioned here:
    https://www.horseracingnation.com/ne...ossibility_123
    He'll have a better shot at the Belmont with the rest. Medina Spirit will have to run the gauntlet of fresh horses like every other Kentucky Derby winner, as it should be.
    And who can forget a healthy Spend A Buck who skipped the Preakness to go for more money in the Garden State Stakes? (we love Bob Brennen the Junk Bond king don't we??). So the moral of the story is to keep the Triple Crown as a predictable and solid institution for the casual observer, breeders, and historians. It will serve us all as other forces try to erode the Triple Crown, which is the jewel of the Thoroughbred sport.

    Just my view.

    Larry
    DevilHorse
    Last edited by DevilHorse; 05-07-2021 at 02:52 PM.

  7. #127
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC area
    Uh, oh.

    Horse racing’s Triple Crown season veered into confusion on Sunday morning upon the news that Medina Spirit, the Kentucky Derby winner, tested positive for an excessive presence of betamethasone, an anti-inflammatory drug permitted only in certain amounts. His trainer, Bob Baffert, said his training team not treated Medina Spirit with that drug.

    It hurled back into the mix of the season the recent-years, doping-related questions around Baffert, whose unexpected win with the 12-1 shot Medina Spirit on May 1 provided a record seventh Kentucky Derby win for the affable, 68-year-old king of the sport.


    -jk

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by -jk View Post
    Uh, oh.

    Horse racing’s Triple Crown season veered into confusion on Sunday morning upon the news that Medina Spirit, the Kentucky Derby winner, tested positive for an excessive presence of betamethasone, an anti-inflammatory drug permitted only in certain amounts. His trainer, Bob Baffert, said his training team not treated Medina Spirit with that drug.

    It hurled back into the mix of the season the recent-years, doping-related questions around Baffert, whose unexpected win with the 12-1 shot Medina Spirit on May 1 provided a record seventh Kentucky Derby win for the affable, 68-year-old king of the sport.


    -jk
    This is very disheartening stuff. I'm pretty sure that there are no therapeutic doses that would end up with a few picograms of anything. I'll just leave this to the officials to ferret out a few more facts and sort this out. Terrible press for the sport though.
    https://www.espn.com/horse-racing/st...i-inflammatory

    Larry
    DevilHorse
    Last edited by -jk; 05-09-2021 at 11:40 AM. Reason: clarity

  9. #129
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Franklin TN
    Quote Originally Posted by DevilHorse View Post
    This is very disheartening stuff. I'm pretty sure that there are no therapeutic doses that would end up with a few picograms of anything. I'll just leave this to the officials to ferret out a few more facts and sort this out. Terrible press for the sport though.
    https://www.espn.com/horse-racing/st...i-inflammatory

    Larry
    DevilHorse
    Sorry but this is a pattern with Baffert’s horses. His claims of innocence ring pretty hollow. This doesn’t sound like the kind of thing that a third party with a grudge against Baffert could do, unless someone on his staff is out to get him. I didn’t realize until today that Gamine was disqualified from the Oaks last year for the same issue. Looks like Mandaloun will be the Derby winner. This is totally unfair to the betters. I had the exacta? Should I sue Baffert to pay me. What about the trainers who obey the rules? This costs them big money in these huge stakes races, at least where he gets by with cheating.

    Now my thoughts on cheaters. Even though they know they will be scrutinized, cheaters got to cheat. (See UNC)

    Do they test every horse in the race or just the top finishers? It seems to me to be similar to how NCAA sanctions are supposed to work. Baffert is guilty of failing to oversee his operation even if he didn’t order the illegal injections. Now the burden of proof has shifted for him to prove his innocence. I’m not holding my breath for that.

  10. #130
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Franklin TN
    Still angry after this revelation. So Baffert must be the Lance Armstrong of horse racing. Always proclaims his innocence until he is finally proven absolutely to be guilty.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by DevilHorse View Post
    This is very disheartening stuff. I'm pretty sure that there are no therapeutic doses that would end up with a few picograms of anything. I'll just leave this to the officials to ferret out a few more facts and sort this out. Terrible press for the sport though.
    https://www.espn.com/horse-racing/st...i-inflammatory

    Larry
    DevilHorse
    Thank you "-jk". Order has been restored to the threads.
    Unless some old rehash of 2020 stuff comes up, please keep to the 2021 thread.

    Thanks.

    Larry
    DevilHorse

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMeDoIt View Post
    Sorry but this is a pattern with Baffert’s horses. His claims of innocence ring pretty hollow. This doesn’t sound like the kind of thing that a third party with a grudge against Baffert could do, unless someone on his staff is out to get him. I didn’t realize until today that Gamine was disqualified from the Oaks last year for the same issue. Looks like Mandaloun will be the Derby winner. This is totally unfair to the betters. I had the exacta? Should I sue Baffert to pay me. What about the trainers who obey the rules? This costs them big money in these huge stakes races, at least where he gets by with cheating.

    Now my thoughts on cheaters. Even though they know they will be scrutinized, cheaters got to cheat. (See UNC)

    Do they test every horse in the race or just the top finishers? It seems to me to be similar to how NCAA sanctions are supposed to work. Baffert is guilty of failing to oversee his operation even if he didn’t order the illegal injections. Now the burden of proof has shifted for him to prove his innocence. I’m not holding my breath for that.
    Look, I'm with you on cheaters. For anybody who seems to have an edge, there is always suspicion of cheating over horsemanship. In Baffert's case (in general) he also has the primo horse's, so there is no reason to do this.

    Not all horses get tested. Usually the top 3 finishers and one random horse from the also rans. Getting results back this fast is impressive. It should be this way of course, but hasn't in my experience.

    In general, it is so easy to taint what a horse is exposed to. Feed comes from outside. Horses are put into paddocks with grass; people, and other horses that you don't know, go into those paddocks and could drop things. Equipment is re-used that are not cleaned (goes from horse to horse). This is not hospital purity of equipment. A tongue tie will go from a horse in race 1 to the next horse in race 2; cooties is passed. No one where's surgical gloves. Usually grooms handle multiple horses. Shipper handle multiple horses. Just sayin'.

    On rare occasions a split sample will exonerate. But that is rare.

    The betting public is NOT protected. Even in the case of obviously correctable situations. Once the race is declared official, it is DONE. There is the famous case of Allumeuse at Saratoga in 1986. I watched that race live (on tape in the evening) [yes, I know it is an oxymoron]. Saratoga had a daily wrap-up show.
    Here is the story:
    https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-...981-story.html

    I was yelling at the TV. (no, I did not have a bet on the race). It was like "What Just Happened?" I was only half watching this race, but I was wondering if the horse that finished first had just been DQ'd. I had the race on my VHS so I could rewind and see what was going on and there was nothing mentioned at the time by Harvey Pack on the show. It was only just later that everyone realized that they did not declare the horse that crossed the line first the winner. They put up the wrong horse and declared the race official. Within a minute, they knew they screwed up, but they were paying out based on the wrong "official" information. And they would not correct it. They have not changed the rule, no matter how unfair that was to the bettor.
    But they did give the purse money out properly, since that takes a few days anyway. But what a joke that was.

    Larry
    DevilHorse

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by DevilHorse View Post
    Found something worth a look. This Saturday is the Peter Pan Stakes.
    Usually you can find a contender for the Belmont coming out of this race.
    Someone will be the winner, but will not hold a candle to the Preakness winner or horses from the KYD that skip the Preakness to run in the Belmont:
    http://www.brisnet.com/php/bw_pdf_vi...param3=1200474

    Risk Taking looks to be the favorite. But Nova Rags has gotten a couple of checks in stakes competition. Overtook may also loom on Big Sandy (nickname for Belmont's main track).

    Larry
    DevilHorse
    Promise Keeper won the Peter Pan yesterday:
    http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/insta...e=inc&print=on
    The race was slow. I haven't checked; might even have been a negative Beyer (just joking) figure on a raw and rainy Belmont day (not muddy though).
    The Peter Pan has produced a few Belmont entrants and winners. Dare I say that Promise Keeper is a good looking chestnut son of Constitution with a white blaze like his half brother Tiz The Law who won last year's Belmont. He appeared to have a very long stride and was not tired at the end of the 1 1/16.

    Risk Taking pulled out of the Peter Pan to (probably) enter the Preakness.

    I've noticed quite a few 2YO races at various tracks. So we will see if there are any exciting newbies that pop up for next year's derby. But it may take some time for the taste of this year's derby to wipe away.

    Larry
    DevilHorse

  14. #134

    More Mischief

    I just realized that if the KYD disqualification is allowed to stand, then Into Mischief will have sired 2 Kentucky Derby winners within a year's time. Both under odd circumstances. Now that is a lot of mischief!
    Fortunately for Mandaloun he didn't win the Louisiana Derby. The winner of that race hasn't won (or been declared the winner) of the KYD since Grindstone in 1996. Are those horses overdue or is it something about the winner of that race that doesn't translate to winning the KYD.

    That will make 2 KYD winner DQ's in the last 3 years.

    Steve Kornacki's reputation will forever be sullied (although he will take home the money).

    Larry
    DevilHorse

  15. #135
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Franklin TN
    Was this steroid one that is injected into the problem area or an oral tablet? I get the issues with environmental factors and Baffert has certainly hammered that point the last few years. If it was injected then that theory is kaput. I also understand that entry to the back side has been much more restricted this year due to covid. The announcers talked about that during the day long Derby broadcast.

    One other point. I used to think Baffert was the greatest trainer on earth. But how many failed drug tests does he get before his reputation is shot. I read a few articles in the Courier Journal yesterday and that seemed to be a theme. Also I don’t read about these environmental factors entrapping Chad Brown, Brad Cox, Todd Pletcher, etc. As a practicing lawyer for 45 years I understand the presumption of innocence, but I also understand human nature. Yes he gets some of the best horses, but some people are just wired to always live on the edge, and some to frequently step over the line. While I did little criminal practice I did see people who from time to time could have been very successful, but the thrill only came when they tried to skirt the law.

    It would be great for horse racing that Baffert is proved innocent. He certainty proclaims his innocence, but what else could he do. He can’t confess to this if he ever wants to train again. So he is boxed in. Churchill Downs took swift action on this. The pressure will be on the other tracks to do likewise.

    If this is conclusively proven, then many will think some of his other Derby victories were tainted. We know for a fact that Justify failed a drug test at Oaklawn. With PETA breathing down horse racing’s throat, and California only a proposition away from banning horse racing, the industry needs to have an awakening.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMeDoIt View Post
    Was this steroid one that is injected into the problem area or an oral tablet? I get the issues with environmental factors and Baffert has certainly hammered that point the last few years. If it was injected then that theory is kaput. I also understand that entry to the back side has been much more restricted this year due to covid. The announcers talked about that during the day long Derby broadcast.

    One other point. I used to think Baffert was the greatest trainer on earth. But how many failed drug tests does he get before his reputation is shot. I read a few articles in the Courier Journal yesterday and that seemed to be a theme. Also I don’t read about these environmental factors entrapping Chad Brown, Brad Cox, Todd Pletcher, etc. As a practicing lawyer for 45 years I understand the presumption of innocence, but I also understand human nature. Yes he gets some of the best horses, but some people are just wired to always live on the edge, and some to frequently step over the line. While I did little criminal practice I did see people who from time to time could have been very successful, but the thrill only came when they tried to skirt the law.

    It would be great for horse racing that Baffert is proved innocent. He certainty proclaims his innocence, but what else could he do. He can’t confess to this if he ever wants to train again. So he is boxed in. Churchill Downs took swift action on this. The pressure will be on the other tracks to do likewise.

    If this is conclusively proven, then many will think some of his other Derby victories were tainted. We know for a fact that Justify failed a drug test at Oaklawn. With PETA breathing down horse racing’s throat, and California only a proposition away from banning horse racing, the industry needs to have an awakening.
    When administered by a veterinarian, betamethasone is injected intra-muscularly, near joints, according to the internet. However, it can be given in powder form into water, but that is not standard practice. For nefarious practice anything can happen. One would presume that if this horse had any inflammatory issues, Baffert would have used standard practice veterinary approaches to get the maximum value from the drug. After all, why get the detection without the benefit.

    There are drug positives happening all the time. You just don't hear about it on the shows. Perhaps not the big trainers, but they happen. Especially if it isn't the big horses. Mostly it is when a horse does not metabolize a drug within a certain amount of time and some residual drug (that was legally administered) remains at a higher level in the system. The standardbreds have an approach to minimize some of the potential problems with the drugs; they have a detention barn where horses for big races are supposed to check in hours (or days) before a big race. State vets handle all of the drug administration so it is all legal. It is added expense, but it has cut out drug positives from races.

    Unfortunately for Baffert, you can't prove a negative. If someone did this to the horse, he is on the hook.

    Speaking of PETA, at Monmouth Park in New Jersey, there is a kerfuffle about new whipping rules that might alter the jockey colony. 70% of the usual jockeys are NOT returning to Monmouth because of very restrictive whipping rules where jockeys can only use the whip for safety reasons. There are many complaints about this from jockeys, bettors, and owners. Much of this is about perception. It is not easy to hurt a 1200 lb animal with a short leather stick. (not at the angle that the jockeys are doing it). Maybe you can "shock" him by touching him with it unexpectedly, but these animals are huge and strong; I don't believe that they are feeling a lot of pain in their flanks. Whips may be a different matter (used in Harness racing); which are longer and are restricted in their use. As a bettor, you'll have to know or mark a program/PPs to know if a horse was in a state where rules restricted the use of a whip/crop. Some horses, who are reluctant to move unless stirred, and race in such a state, might not perform as well.

    Whipping trainers is allowed according to PETA, but perhaps not some legal jurisdictions

    Larry
    DevilHorse

  17. #137
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    LOL at Baffert on the news last night talking about exonerating his horse, nothing about exonerating himself.

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    LOL at Baffert on the news last night talking about exonerating his horse, nothing about exonerating himself.
    What was the horse's intent? He's not talkin'.
    But then, he's 3 years old.

    Larry
    DevilHorse

  19. #139
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Franklin TN
    Quote Originally Posted by DevilHorse View Post
    When administered by a veterinarian, betamethasone is injected intra-muscularly, near joints, according to the internet. However, it can be given in powder form into water, but that is not standard practice. For nefarious practice anything can happen. One would presume that if this horse had any inflammatory issues, Baffert would have used standard practice veterinary approaches to get the maximum value from the drug. After all, why get the detection without the benefit.

    There are drug positives happening all the time. You just don't hear about it on the shows. Perhaps not the big trainers, but they happen. Especially if it isn't the big horses. Mostly it is when a horse does not metabolize a drug within a certain amount of time and some residual drug (that was legally administered) remains at a higher level in the system. The standardbreds have an approach to minimize some of the potential problems with the drugs; they have a detention barn where horses for big races are supposed to check in hours (or days) before a big race. State vets handle all of the drug administration so it is all legal. It is added expense, but it has cut out drug positives from races.

    Unfortunately for Baffert, you can't prove a negative. If someone did this to the horse, he is on the hook.

    Speaking of PETA, at Monmouth Park in New Jersey, there is a kerfuffle about new whipping rules that might alter the jockey colony. 70% of the usual jockeys are NOT returning to Monmouth because of very restrictive whipping rules where jockeys can only use the whip for safety reasons. There are many complaints about this from jockeys, bettors, and owners. Much of this is about perception. It is not easy to hurt a 1200 lb animal with a short leather stick. (not at the angle that the jockeys are doing it). Maybe you can "shock" him by touching him with it unexpectedly, but these animals are huge and strong; I don't believe that they are feeling a lot of pain in their flanks. Whips may be a different matter (used in Harness racing); which are longer and are restricted in their use. As a bettor, you'll have to know or mark a program/PPs to know if a horse was in a state where rules restricted the use of a whip/crop. Some horses, who are reluctant to move unless stirred, and race in such a state, might not perform as well.

    Whipping trainers is allowed according to PETA, but perhaps not some legal jurisdictions

    Larry
    DevilHorse
    It is my perception that today’s jockeys don't whip the horses nearly as much as they did fifty years ago. When I first started going to Keeneland the leading jockey in those days, Don Brumfield, beat the living hell out of the horses he rode. My wife used to comment on it. He was an old hardtack type of jockey. I also seem to remember that some horses resented the whip. It seems to me the jockeys at least at the higher class tracks are fairly judicious in their use of the whip today.

    No one should underestimate PETA. No fois gras in California. They put the traditional American circus out of business. Had Santa Anita had another year like last year, I’m not sure they would still be in business. These drug issues play right into their agenda.

    One other comment, Baffert is complaining that Churchill Downs has treated him poorly by suspending him. I think the higher ups in racing are tired of these continuing issues with drugs in his horses. Baffert keeps claiming he is the face of horse racing. I think a lot of the racing industry is ready to move on from him.

    On the issue of proving a negative, he needs to provide a logical explanation with proof of how the drug got into Medina Spirit.

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMeDoIt View Post
    It is my perception that today’s jockeys don't whip the horses nearly as much as they did fifty years ago. When I first started going to Keeneland the leading jockey in those days, Don Brumfield, beat the living hell out of the horses he rode. My wife used to comment on it. He was an old hardtack type of jockey. I also seem to remember that some horses resented the whip. It seems to me the jockeys at least at the higher class tracks are fairly judicious in their use of the whip today.

    No one should underestimate PETA. No fois gras in California. They put the traditional American circus out of business. Had Santa Anita had another year like last year, I’m not sure they would still be in business. These drug issues play right into their agenda.

    One other comment, Baffert is complaining that Churchill Downs has treated him poorly by suspending him. I think the higher ups in racing are tired of these continuing issues with drugs in his horses. Baffert keeps claiming he is the face of horse racing. I think a lot of the racing industry is ready to move on from him.

    On the issue of proving a negative, he needs to provide a logical explanation with proof of how the drug got into Medina Spirit.
    In general, you and I are probably watching the better jockeys at the higher class tracks (I think you alluded to this). Once you realize that a horse "tries" and will not go faster if you hit him, especially if he's tired, you don't hit him anymore. In a busy race, you need to signal a horse that something has changed to make a move. Showing a horse the whip/crop works, unless he has blinders on (which many do). In a busy race, there may be a lot of touching from various sources, so a rap with the whip/crop is a way to get your point across.

    Some of these animals are smart; really smart. And will not give out their maximum effort no matter what you do. I've known horses like these. Top horses. When they want to run, they run. When they don't, you can't whip or coax them into a better effort. Others are "push button"; just touch them, and pull the reign to give them a clear path, and they are 'gone'. Still other horses don't get it. They can't be rated. You let them go to the front, or you have to fight them or choke them down and exhaust them while rating them. It is tough to teach. Some never learn. It is not a good look, and a bettor may not be happy with the result.

    PETA may not be happy with how horses are treated if horses anywhere near a racetrack. They are an institution that at this point needs constant feeding to continue to exist. These horses did not elect to be race horses, yet they would not exist if not for the races. Put them into a field and they will race each other; it is their nature from 100's of years of selective breeding. It is their essence. Most of them enjoy it and anticipate it. If you have seen a horse before getting on a track for training or a race, they know what is coming. They know the difference between race day, a day off, and training day. Most all horses, and especially the high priced ones you see in the top races, are treated like pets. Abuse by jockeys is not tolerated by trainers or owners. But they do want performance. Horses will be given opportunity to perform, otherwise they will be sold or moved to other stables or places.

    The breakdown of horses happens everywhere. On farms, in paddocks, in stalls, and obviously on the race tracks during training and in races. The Santa Anita situation last year was unique and very unfortunate. But I fear that there would be unintended consequences if PETA did get its way. Many more horses would find their way to Canada to the killers and be used for horse meat for consumption. That is the ugly truth for some horses that can't earn their way. Most sound horses will be able to find a vocation as pleasure horses, jumpers, police horses, or trail horses. We've seen a big reduction in the number of horses bred because of economic issues. That might cause some tracks to close up. With video and electronic betting, that might work out.

    There will be little support out there for Baffert. After all, if Baffert is gone, there will be more business and more purses for everyone else.

    Larry
    DevilHorse
    Last edited by DevilHorse; 05-11-2021 at 07:44 AM.

Similar Threads

  1. Horse Racing 2020
    By DevilHorse in forum Off Topic
    Replies: 274
    Last Post: 05-26-2021, 07:28 AM
  2. Horse Racing - 2019
    By DevilHorse in forum Off Topic
    Replies: 53
    Last Post: 05-20-2019, 07:26 AM
  3. Car racing whaaaaa?
    By throatybeard in forum Off Topic
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: 08-15-2014, 10:18 AM
  4. Open wheel racing truce
    By YmoBeThere in forum Off Topic
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 02-23-2008, 04:21 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •