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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    At that point, they’ll just say that the old gray mare just ain’t what she used to be.
    The old grey mare who was referred to in that maxim was named Lady Suffolk. She was a famous trotter who became a world champion and raced until she wasn't quite the same:
    https://harnessmuseum.com/content/lady-suffolk

    Lady Suffolk, although a trotter, was a great grand-daughter of an imported Thoroughbred stud named Messenger. Messenger can be found in the pedigree of horse's like Secretariat.

    Just to expand on this theme. The bob-tailed mare from Stephan Foster's Camptown Races was a race horse named Flora Temple.
    https://harnessmuseum.com/content/flora-temple
    She was a trotting filly world record holder. Camptown Races was located in Camptown, PA in northeast Pennsylvania.
    The Stephan Foster Handicap is a big race that will be run on Stephan Foster Day at Churchill Downs on June 26 this year with 6 other stakes races.

    But I digress..

    Larry
    DevilHorse

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by DevilHorse View Post
    It is Black Eyed Susan Day!

    I've seen several opinions about the fillies chances and there is some leanings toward the #1, Army Wife. I see a few factors that suggest that she has a good shot in here. 1) she was blocked in her last race, so it is better than it looks. 2) Many horses players believe in 'bouncing', which loosley translated means that horses don't all run better and better races. Most horses run well, then take a step back/down, then improve. This would be Army Wife's improvement race. 3) Declaration of War is a bit of an enigma as a sire. I believe he finished 2nd in the Breeder's Cup Turf. He came from Europe to do that (no small feat), where he exclusively ran on the turf. No dirt racing attempts. His sire, War Front, sires both turfers and dirt horses extremely well! I remember War Front, he was very good on either surface, although he is a better sire than a race horse. Sometimes it takes convincing that what the industry thinks is a turf sire, really is a dirt sire.


    My pick is:
    1) Concert Tour # Fresh Horse - Mike Smith knows stuff
    2) Midnight Bourbon # Irad is great - The Louisiana horses were impressive. Assume he is better than he appeared.
    3) Medina Spirit # This horse was 1 length from being 4th in the KYD by about 5 lengths ahead of the rest of the field, so expect him there.

    PPs for these races are up-thread.

    Larry
    DevilHorse
    Army Wife turned out to be a good pick. The rail it seemed was a good place to stay. Army Wife stayed on the rail until the stretch and then pulled out
    http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/insta...e=inc&print=on

    Looking through various opinions of noted gamblers and touts on the internet, the buzz horses seems to be Crowded Trade followed by Midnight Bourbon. Crowded Trade is the most lightly raced, and has been right there for all of his races, and Chad Brown is excellent. He has a jockey upgrade too. If you think that the Baffert horses will take a step back, then these are logical horses to use.

    Larry
    DevilHorse

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by DevilHorse View Post
    The old grey mare who was referred to in that maxim was named Lady Suffolk. She was a famous trotter who became a world champion and raced until she wasn't quite the same:
    https://harnessmuseum.com/content/lady-suffolk

    Lady Suffolk, although a trotter, was a great grand-daughter of an imported Thoroughbred stud named Messenger. Messenger can be found in the pedigree of horse's like Secretariat.

    Just to expand on this theme. The bob-tailed mare from Stephan Foster's Camptown Races was a race horse named Flora Temple.
    https://harnessmuseum.com/content/flora-temple
    She was a trotting filly world record holder. Camptown Races was located in Camptown, PA in northeast Pennsylvania.
    The Stephan Foster Handicap is a big race that will be run on Stephan Foster Day at Churchill Downs on June 26 this year with 6 other stakes races.

    But I digress..

    Larry
    DevilHorse
    Very interesting. Please add these little asides as they occur to you. I always enjoy factual ditties that all color and backstories to other matters. Nothing happens in a vacuum.

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by Indoor66 View Post
    Very interesting. Please add these little asides as they occur to you. I always enjoy factual ditties that all color and backstories to other matters. Nothing happens in a vacuum.
    Just talked to friend who is a casual horse player, bets about 4 days a year. His money quote to me, ďYou have to bet the Baffert horse, you know heís juiced.Ē

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by DevilHorse View Post
    Well, I know what you're getting at, but let me give you a more screwed up year. (forget 2020 when KYD and Preakness were out of sequence).
    How about the very last legit year, just 2 years ago in 2019 when the top 3 horses did not come back from the KYD to race in the Preakness.

    The top 5 finishers in the KYD were (Finish and then the Official Standings after Disqualification of Maximum Security):
    Fin - Official
    1st - DQ - Maximum Security
    2nd - 1st - Country House
    3rd - 2nd - Code of Honor
    4th - 3rd - Tacitus
    5th - 4th - Improbable

    None of these horses (except Improbable) entered the Preakness

    Winner of the Preakness was: War Of Will (Officially 7th in the KYD) won by 1 1/4 lengths.
    Others from the KYD field in the 13 horse Preakness were: Improbable (6th), Win Win Win (7th), Bodexpress (DNF)

    Winner of the Belmont was : Sir Winston (Did not run in other TC events).
    2nd Place Tacitus (3rd in KYD, not in Preakness)
    Other runners from KYD: Spinoff, Master Fencer, Tax, War Of Will (ran in all TC events - 9th in Belmont of 10 horses)
    Bourbon War, Everfast from Preakness only. A few new shooters, but mostly previous TC race horses.

    Not a bad year for horses. Maximum Security became a world champion, under suspicious circumstances, Improbable became a top Handicap horse. Country House of course never ran again; the first time the KYD winner didn't race in the Preakness since 1996. Of course, if Mandaloun is declared the winner, that will be 2 of 3 years. Win Win Win became a great come from behind horse on the Turf.

    Code of Honor (3rd in KYD) won the Travers Stakes in 2019.

    Larry
    DevilHorse
    I think this is probably related to the two week turnaround. Trainers of multimillion dollar horses arenít going to be inclined to race in the Preakness unless they won the Derby. So if this is correct, the value of the Preakness is going to
    continue to decrease to the breeding operations. Sorry to my Maryland friends, but thatís how i see it.

    Unfortunately if it wasnít for casinos propping up purses in most states, horse racing would be on its death bed.

    A friend if mine who owns and breeds a few horses posted on Facebook a fact showing the great decline in births of thoroughbreds over the last twenty years. I canít quote the numbers, but it seems the percentage decrease was over 50%. Larry you probably know the figures he was quoting in his post.

    After that doom and gloom assessment, I still plan to enjoy today!

  6. #166
    Just saw the editorial in the New York Times today is about horse racing. Thatís never a good thing for the object of the piece. It points out that the US Congress passed a bill to establish a national horse racing association to apply uniform rules across all tracks. But not surprisingly the trainers and others have sued to declare it unconstitutional. Baffert to his credit supports the law. I believe the Hancock family who bred Secretariat have been pushing for this for years. Churchill Downs finally got on board and McConnell got it passed in one of the early COVID relief bills. The point of the editorial is that Ky. has suspended Baffert, but Maryland and New York donít have to honor that as they have their own rules. And here I thought the NCAA was the most screwed up sports organization.

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMeDoIt View Post
    I think this is probably related to the two week turnaround. Trainers of multimillion dollar horses arenít going to be inclined to race in the Preakness unless they won the Derby. So if this is correct, the value of the Preakness is going to
    continue to decrease to the breeding operations. Sorry to my Maryland friends, but thatís how i see it.

    Unfortunately if it wasnít for casinos propping up purses in most states, horse racing would be on its death bed.

    A friend if mine who owns and breeds a few horses posted on Facebook a fact showing the great decline in births of thoroughbreds over the last twenty years. I canít quote the numbers, but it seems the percentage decrease was over 50%. Larry you probably know the figures he was quoting in his post.

    After that doom and gloom assessment, I still plan to enjoy today!
    Yes, the number of horses bred (Tbreds and Sbreds) has been steadily shrinking (but flattening). I believe that it all depends on purse money. In New Jersey, when Chris Christie killed the Sire Stakes subsidy (it wasn't a political issue under either party before him), the control of the Meadowlands was in doubt, the sires left the state and the breeding numbers took a dive. Our tracks were threatened, but found a way to stay opened. Now, there is a new ownership, better purses, the sires are back and the breeding is on the upswing (breed wise as well). Horsemen are now in charge of the tracks in the state. Although there may be a hiccup with the virus year. The same trend follows the thoroughbreds, which have about twice as many foals per year as the SBreds.

    For Thoroughbreds in North America (we are really one breeding and racing market), there were about 40k born in 1990, there are about 20k born in 2020. Standardbreds have been roughly a third of the TBred population. The peak was in the late 1980s. Optimally, race tracks want more horses per race because betting is better. People like options in races. Often in recent years, there haven't been enough horses to fill a card or to get full fields in races. Some tracks have closed. Many horses have been sold to foreign interests, a percentage of foals are not race worthy (soundness creeps into TBreds, which is why you don't see them race quite as often). SBreds race much faster than they used to, which doesn't help soundness; they used to race 40 times a year (not so anymore).

    Also note that there are rules that come and go on foal crop size that play with the breed. The Thoroughbreds used to have live cover limits of 40 foals per sire (back in Bold Ruler's day) and that has steadily increased (poor exhausted studs). Standardbreds allow artificial insemination and at one point were having 300 foals a year for the popular ones. Now, some TBred sires have as many as 120 (or more) and Standardbed sires are being limited to 120 or so. All to prevent us from breeding our horse populations into a corner. TBreds are having more of a problem with that now (less hardy horses). Standardbred Trotters have less diversity in their breed, but fortunately not as much bad genes. They also can breed with French trotters who are very good and have earlier strains of US blood. But I digress.

    With simulcasting of all varieties, having a local track, you don't really need to have the track right by you to wager and enjoy multiple racing opportunities. The best horses are at your fingertips, without all the smoke and "atmosphere". So having fewer tracks is possible with fewer horses, and you can maintain the same handle. That would be a pity. Being able to go to a racetrack is an event. Different smells, events, things to do; it's a happening!

    But there is a line stated by Elizabeth Taylor in National Velvet, when they bring The Pie to Aintree in England. She gets off the truck and looks around and inhales and as she exhales she says "HORSES"!!!!! Anyone who has ever felt like that knows the difference between watching the races in person and on TV. It is the difference between being in love and watching in a movie.

    Larry
    DevilHorse

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMeDoIt View Post
    Just saw the editorial in the New York Times today is about horse racing. Thatís never a good thing for the object of the piece. It points out that the US Congress passed a bill to establish a national horse racing association to apply uniform rules across all tracks. But not surprisingly the trainers and others have sued to declare it unconstitutional. Baffert to his credit supports the law. I believe the Hancock family who bred Secretariat have been pushing for this for years. Churchill Downs finally got on board and McConnell got it passed in one of the early COVID relief bills. The point of the editorial is that Ky. has suspended Baffert, but Maryland and New York donít have to honor that as they have their own rules. And here I thought the NCAA was the most screwed up sports organization.
    The Horse Racing Integrity Act (HISA) of 2020 has a lot of problems. But you have to start somewhere. One of the main goals is to have common Drug rules across the country for horse racing. That might help to reduce the problems such as we are having with Baffert and the KYD; or at least the ability of trainers to use his excuses. Some commonality is a good thing. Commonality means shared resources. I think I've mentioned before that I had to be licensed as an owner in every state that I raced, which means I had to go to every state that I raced. Look, I wanted to see my horses race in person OK. But tough to do when you work if it is on a weeknight. I had few stakes horses. The gas tank and toll booth would take any winnings I could get.

    At least some obvious problems is that not everyone that is bound by the HISA rules were invited to the discussion. The Standardbreds and the Quarterhorses did not have a seat at the table. They have different medical needs. This is just an example. There are people for and against in every category (owners, trainers, driver/jockeys) of each of the breeds. But it is a start.

    Frankly I'm suspicious of anything that has Mitch McConnell involved. He was a main proponent of this and that means someone else was pushing the agenda with money which skews the table. McConnell the Senator from Kentucky. I never heard that he had any interest in Horses other than this.

    Larry
    DevilHorse

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by DevilHorse View Post
    The Horse Racing Integrity Act (HISA) of 2020 has a lot of problems. But you have to start somewhere. One of the main goals is to have common Drug rules across the country for horse racing. That might help to reduce the problems such as we are having with Baffert and the KYD; or at least the ability of trainers to use his excuses. Some commonality is a good thing. Commonality means shared resources. I think I've mentioned before that I had to be licensed as an owner in every state that I raced, which means I had to go to every state that I raced. Look, I wanted to see my horses race in person OK. But tough to do when you work if it is on a weeknight. I had few stakes horses. The gas tank and toll booth would take any winnings I could get.

    At least some obvious problems is that not everyone that is bound by the HISA rules were invited to the discussion. The Standardbreds and the Quarterhorses did not have a seat at the table. They have different medical needs. This is just an example. There are people for and against in every category (owners, trainers, driver/jockeys) of each of the breeds. But it is a start.

    Frankly I'm suspicious of anything that has Mitch McConnell involved. He was a main proponent of this and that means someone else was pushing the agenda with money which skews the table. McConnell the Senator from Kentucky. I never heard that he had any interest in Horses other than this.

    Larry
    DevilHorse
    As a former Kentuckian I read McConnell would push whatever Churchill Downs wanted. I personally despise Churchill Downs because it has killed too many tracks. It looks like Arlington Park will be its latest victim as the real estate is worth more for commercial development than a horse track. They killed Hollywood Park and then Calder. They have led the push in Kentucky with slot machines, sorry, I meant historical horse racing machines. For those in other states, slot machines are illegal in Ky. under our State Constitution. So you have the machine pay out based on some kind of algorithm based on prior horse races. The concept is similar with states that put casinos on boats, and magically they were cured of sin. Anyway, the slots have created huge purses in Kentucky so I support the fiction. NBC did a segment on the federal legislation. The commentators were in agreement that racing needs uniform rules and a Commissioner. Weíll see how it all works if it survives the legal challenge.

    As an aside my wife told me not to bet Medina Spirit today as he couldnít win since he was clean. Stupid me ignored her and put him in the exacta with Midnight Bourbon. I personally think the horses in the Preakness today would be challenged to win a good Grade 2 stakes. The Baffert issues probably elevated the interest in the race. Whats the old saying about any publicity...

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMeDoIt View Post
    As a former Kentuckian I read McConnell would push whatever Churchill Downs wanted. I personally despise Churchill Downs because it has killed too many tracks. It looks like Arlington Park will be its latest victim as the real estate is worth more for commercial development than a horse track. They killed Hollywood Park and then Calder. They have led the push in Kentucky with slot machines, sorry, I meant historical horse racing machines. For those in other states, slot machines are illegal in Ky. under our State Constitution. So you have the machine pay out based on some kind of algorithm based on prior horse races. The concept is similar with states that put casinos on boats, and magically they were cured of sin. Anyway, the slots have created huge purses in Kentucky so I support the fiction. NBC did a segment on the federal legislation. The commentators were in agreement that racing needs uniform rules and a Commissioner. Weíll see how it all works if it survives the legal challenge.

    As an aside my wife told me not to bet Medina Spirit today as he couldnít win since he was clean. Stupid me ignored her and put him in the exacta with Midnight Bourbon. I personally think the horses in the Preakness today would be challenged to win a good Grade 2 stakes. The Baffert issues probably elevated the interest in the race. Whats the old saying about any publicity...
    I suspect you are right about the McConnell/CD connection. The hypocrisy of a leader of a party that espouses less regulation and keeping the government out of people and business's lives, doing the opposite, has never stopped McConnell.

    Racinos were created under the guise of expanding the casino gaming footprint, while helping to supplement the purse structure. A deal that was a win-win. Also in some states, the lottery and the education funding has benefited. Now, that the Casinos have been established, in some states (like Pennsylvania) they are attempting to raid the Casino to Horse Track subsidy which will choke off the racing industry. In New Jersey, when Atlantic City was suffering because of Casinos appearing in Philadelphia, gambling was allowed in other places in NJ at tracks, owned by the Casinos; the Casinos are trying to rake back the horse subsidy now that they have expanded their footprint in the state. Don't trust the Casinos.

    Larry
    DevilHorse

  11. #171

    Being there

    Quote Originally Posted by DevilHorse View Post
    Army Wife turned out to be a good pick. The rail it seemed was a good place to stay. Army Wife stayed on the rail until the stretch and then pulled out
    http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/insta...e=inc&print=on

    Looking through various opinions of noted gamblers and touts on the internet, the buzz horses seems to be Crowded Trade followed by Midnight Bourbon. Crowded Trade is the most lightly raced, and has been right there for all of his races, and Chad Brown is excellent. He has a jockey upgrade too. If you think that the Baffert horses will take a step back, then these are logical horses to use.

    Larry
    DevilHorse
    BEING THERE!!!

    Just borrowing from the great Peter Sellers (he didn't return my email when I asked to borrow the title).

    Both NBC and TVG had a commentator that nailed how Rombauer was acting more precociously than the other horses. Christine Blacker on TVG, and the commenter on NBC said that Rombauer was on his toes more than the other horses. Blacker said he was nervous and on his toes (a bit of a contradiction) but seeing the horse, he was excited and energetic, he was not washed out (no lather between his flanks [hind end]) a good result could be expected from this horse. You get that by being there at the track!
    http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/insta...e=inc&print=on

    This was a fast Preakness at 1:53 3/5. Secretariat's record was 1:53 4/5 corrected to 1:53 - . The track was fast, with perfect conditions, so we'll see the Beyer tomorrow.

    Except for the Blue Grass Stakes, this horse was a stone cold closer. If you remember the El Camino Real Derby, he came from last, 9 lengths off at the start, 12 lengths and last half way through, to wire the field. Granted there may not have been any high caliber stakes horses in that field, but that is no small feat.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUkHsbfMygo <= See the El Camino Real Derby again.
    Great win by Rombauer. Very exciting to see this. He will do well in the Belmont with more room to chase down the leaders. The pace was good with 46 and change in the pace. Medina Spirit had to be tired; he was way off the rail on the back side; that indicated fatigue. If Draftkings allowed for mid-race bets, I would have bet the No-Pass on the craps table.

    The broodmare sire of Rombauer is Cowbay Cal (Secretariat in that pedigree 4 generations for CC and 6 gen for Rombauer if you're keeping score). I remember Cowboy Cal as a smallish horse, and so is Rombauer. But he got down and was focussed. Great to see the small guy from the small California track take home the laurels.

    Give Baffert a drug test for smelling salts; bet it's positive.

    Larry
    DevilHorse

  12. #172
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Undisclosed
    Quote Originally Posted by DevilHorse View Post
    BEING THERE!!!
    I like to watch.
    ďThatís just, like, your opinion, man.Ē

  13. #173
    New article in NY Times re the Preakness. It discloses a Baffert lie I had not heard before. Maybe I am just late
    to this information. Last fall Baffert announced he had hired a top Vet from a Lexington Ky practice to oversee all drugs administered to his horses to assure compliance with all state regulations. This was when he promised to run a tighter ship. Now his lawyer has disclosed he never hired the high profile vet. I am sorry, but Baffert needs to retire. His reputation is shot. I for one will be happy to never see another horse of his. NBC disclosed that Spendthrift Farms has temporarily remove all horses from his barn. Maybe the handwriting is on the stall wall.

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMeDoIt View Post
    New article in NY Times re the Preakness. It discloses a Baffert lie I had not heard before. Maybe I am just late
    to this information. Last fall Baffert announced he had hired a top Vet from a Lexington Ky practice to oversee all drugs administered to his horses to assure compliance with all state regulations. This was when he promised to run a tighter ship. Now his lawyer has disclosed he never hired the high profile vet. I am sorry, but Baffert needs to retire. His reputation is shot. I for one will be happy to never see another horse of his. NBC disclosed that Spendthrift Farms has temporarily remove all horses from his barn. Maybe the handwriting is on the stall wall.
    At this point, it is more the integrity of the owners, the veterinarians, and the states where Baffert races. If the owners feel there is something going on, they shouldn't support Baffert with their horses in his barn. There are several top quality trainers in southern California to use. The jockeys are the same. Although he is friends with these people, they've had enormous success, I get it; if authorities will not suspend him, most owners just don't have the will to move.

    As a bettor, if he enters a horse, you can make whatever assumption about what he does with a horse that you like. To quote Bill Parcells, His record is what his record says it is. It is your money and you can assume that he will continue to put out horses that will perform just as they had before:

    For instance, today he has a first time starter in the 6th at Santa Anita, American Admiral:
    http://www.brisnet.com/php/bw_pdf_vi...param3=1006458
    Here is a 3YOC $1.3M son of American Pharoah who has good but not great works. Obviously he missed the Triple Crown, and most of the big money 2YO/3YO races have passed this one by. He will surely take lots of money because of his breeding, trainer, and purchase price.
    You might have a better bet on the other Baffert entry (Myopic) who is a 2nd time starter (a good betting angle we've discussed) who has since had a bullet work and had a rough trip.

    Here is a story about yesterday's Preakness:
    https://www.horseracingnation.com/ne..._Preakness_123
    Steve Asmussen takes some credit for 'softening' up Medina Spirit with Midnight Bourbon so Rombauer could win the race. There may be some truth to it, but Medina Spirit looked tired to me halfway through the race (drifting out). Rombauer's 3.5 length win was decisive.
    The field was really strung out behind the top 3. I don't see any of these other horses going to the Belmont.

    Larry
    DevilHorse

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by DevilHorse View Post

    For instance, today he has a first time starter in the 6th at Santa Anita, American Admiral:
    http://www.brisnet.com/php/bw_pdf_vi...param3=1006458
    Here is a 3YOC $1.3M son of American Pharoah who has good but not great works. Obviously he missed the Triple Crown, and most of the big money 2YO/3YO races have passed this one by. He will surely take lots of money because of his breeding, trainer, and purchase price.
    You might have a better bet on the other Baffert entry (Myopic) who is a 2nd time starter (a good betting angle we've discussed) who has since had a bullet work and had a rough trip.


    Larry
    DevilHorse
    Well, I suppose there was a reason that American Admiral took so long to get to the races:
    http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/insta...e=inc&print=on

    Big favorite.. Big Deal.
    The horse with the most experience (i.e., the most starts without a win) ended up with the win.

    Larry
    DevilHorse

  16. #176
    Big day for integrity at NY Tracks:

    Baffert prohibited from Stabling and Racing at New York Tracks, until Kentucky matter is cleared:
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ky-derby-probe
    Does not suggest that a positive test would pave the way for allowing Baffert back in, or a negative would either.

    Linda Rice, a staple in New York Racing, kicked out for 3 years from NY racing for making suspicious payments to an official:
    https://www.horseracingnation.com/ne...or_3_years_123
    Shocker!

    And, a list of possible entrants to the Belmont stakes:
    https://www.horseracingnation.com/ne...ont_Stakes_123

    Larry
    DevilHorse

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by DevilHorse View Post
    Well, I suppose there was a reason that American Admiral took so long to get to the races:
    http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/insta...e=inc&print=on

    Big favorite.. Big Deal.
    The horse with the most experience (i.e., the most starts without a win) ended up with the win.

    Larry
    DevilHorse
    If Baffert’s horses are drug free will we see a decline in his stable’s performance? I intend to watch this over time.

  18. #178
    [QUOTE=DevilHorse;1371717]Big day for integrity at NY Tracks:

    Baffert prohibited from Stabling and Racing at New York Tracks, until Kentucky matter is cleared:
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ky-derby-probe
    Does not suggest that a positive test would pave the way for allowing Baffert back in, or a negative would either.

    Linda Rice, a staple in New York Racing, kicked out for 3 years from NY racing for making suspicious payments to an official:
    https://www.horseracingnation.com/ne...or_3_years_123
    Shocker!

    And, a list of possible entrants to the Belmont stakes:
    https://www.horseracingnation.com/ne...ont_Stakes_123

    Larry
    DevilHorse

    I was not familiar with Rice until last summer when I started watching FS1 Day at the Races. She was obviously a high level trainer who seemed to win a lot. Perhaps the big tracks who coincidentally have the most to lose from these scandals are going to make a concerted effort to clean up the sport. As I have no idea how crooked the sport actually is, it will be interesting to see if honest trainers produce more consistent results. I suppose someone will do some high level analytics over the next few years. After the FBI investigation New York appears to be down a number of trainers.

    Now we wait to see if California racing authorities have any guts. To this point the trainers, specifically Baffert, seem to be in control. I still believe in the presumption of innocence, but I also believe in circumstantial evidence when a pattern of cheating repeats over and over.

    As always thanks for the updates.

  19. #179
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    I think horse racing is a great historic sport, and the Kentucky Derby was traditionally one of the four or five most important sports events in the country -- World Series, Rose Bowl, heavyweight championship fight, etc. (Yeah, I'm old.) Yet the Derby purse is $3 million -- compared to the Masters at $11.5 M and even the every week event is $5 million or more (Valero in San Antonio was $7.7 M).
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  20. #180
    [QUOTE=TheDevilMadeMeDoIt;1371938]
    Quote Originally Posted by DevilHorse View Post
    Big day for integrity at NY Tracks:

    Baffert prohibited from Stabling and Racing at New York Tracks, until Kentucky matter is cleared:
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ky-derby-probe
    Does not suggest that a positive test would pave the way for allowing Baffert back in, or a negative would either.

    Linda Rice, a staple in New York Racing, kicked out for 3 years from NY racing for making suspicious payments to an official:
    https://www.horseracingnation.com/ne...or_3_years_123
    Shocker!

    And, a list of possible entrants to the Belmont stakes:
    https://www.horseracingnation.com/ne...ont_Stakes_123

    Larry
    DevilHorse

    I was not familiar with Rice until last summer when I started watching FS1 Day at the Races. She was obviously a high level trainer who seemed to win a lot. Perhaps the big tracks who coincidentally have the most to lose from these scandals are going to make a concerted effort to clean up the sport. As I have no idea how crooked the sport actually is, it will be interesting to see if honest trainers produce more consistent results. I suppose someone will do some high level analytics over the next few years. After the FBI investigation New York appears to be down a number of trainers.

    Now we wait to see if California racing authorities have any guts. To this point the trainers, specifically Baffert, seem to be in control. I still believe in the presumption of innocence, but I also believe in circumstantial evidence when a pattern of cheating repeats over and over.

    As always thanks for the updates.
    It is not obvious if 1) Rice will appeal 2) Rice will appear in another jurisdiction (not all states are obliged to extend the ban of other jurisdictions). I don't know if something like HISA would require any local bans to be adopted by other states. Rice has made her living with NY breds, so it is not as easy to just move your horses to another state, although some states have dual state bred allowability.

    Santa Anita stables a slew (pun intended) of horses from the Baffert barn. Not obvious that they would. But even if they would, they might only put in a suspension for a short time, while he goes to Tijuana for a few weeks, while the horses continue to race for his sub-trainers; a well known work-around for these types of training hijinx. Now, finding a way to not have Baffert phone in the instructions to the understudies. In NY, he can't have horses on the grounds. Moving the horses to "beards" who are trainers in name only who take instructions from him, have to be a concern. But I don't think Baffert's drug positive is as major as Rice's. More high profile for sure, but not really as big a deal. It is not a 3 strike and your out thing. Although, the powers that be might really have their feelings hurt with the Triple Crown being tarnished.

    Larry
    DevilHorse

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