2020-21 NBA Regular Season Thread

[Steven43]

Sure, they’re professionals and they got here by being ultra-competitive. Having one of the worst losses in NBA history hung on you will hurt...especially as they get reminded of it ad nauseum on social media and by the media. It was exceptionally bad, not a run of the mill thumping (otherwise I’d agree with you).

I don’t understand why the Clippers should care whether they lost by 1, 40, 50, or 60 points. Either way it still only counts as one “L”, not two or three. They know very well that they didn’t have their best player — who is one of the three best in the world.

Ultimately it’s just a regular season game. They’re going to lose at least 15-20 more of them. I’ll bet they’ve already put it behind them.

[bundabergdevil]

I don’t understand why the Clippers should care whether they lost by 1, 40, 50, or 60 points. Either way it still only counts as one “L”, not two or three. They know very well that they didn’t have their best player — who is one of the three best in the world.

Ultimately it’s just a regular season game. They’re going to lose at least 15-20 more of them. I’ll bet they’ve already put it behind them.

Really? You don't think a competitive professional athlete at the height of his profession cares about a historic butt-whooping? Worst loss in Clippers history, largest halftime deficit in NBA history...

It's of course just one loss but of course it's also embarrassing. Wouldn't you be embarrassed if you did something viewed as historically bad/stupid at your profession?

They get some leeway for Leonard being out but 50 point drubbings don't happen often or by accident.

[dukelifer]

50 is a big number. In fact, the Clippers’ 50-point halftime deficit was the most a team has been outscored in any two-quarter span (first or second half) in the NBA’s shot clock era.

That kind of loss can really mess with a teams' head or be a powerful motivator. No matter how it plays out, they'll be thinking about it a lot.

They will play better the next game but I think that it how long they will think about it. Clearly they can rationalize the loss.

[ClemmonsDevil]

Wouldn't you be embarrassed if you did something viewed as historically bad/stupid at your profession?

Wait. I'm supposed to feel bad for this stuff?

[moonpie23]

altho this is only one loss, a team that was supposed to come out of the west last year (due to adding george and leonard) getting bounced by denver, having to absorb social media's punches for the off season, now seeing something like this, and the mental stress starts to stack up.

let's hope it continues...

[Troublemaker]

Really? You don't think a competitive professional athlete at the height of his profession cares about a historic butt-whooping? Worst loss in Clippers history, largest halftime deficit in NBA history...

It's of course just one loss but of course it's also embarrassing. Wouldn't you be embarrassed if you did something viewed as historically bad/stupid at your profession?

They get some leeway for Leonard being out but 50 point drubbings don't happen often or by accident.

I mean, I guess it depends on what precisely you think the impact of this loss will be in terms of range of outcomes for the Clippers. From an earlier post, it almost sounded like you believe this is a make-or-break moment for their season, in which case I very much disagree:

That kind of loss can really mess with a teams' head or be a powerful motivator. No matter how it plays out, they'll be thinking about it a lot.

See, I think there's basically zero chance the loss will mess with their heads so much that they go into a tailspin or something like that. I think they will be motivated to play hard next game, and then that'll be the end of it. The NBA season is too long and these pros are too used to moving onto the next game for this to be a make-or-break moment for them.

[bundabergdevil]

I mean, I guess it depends on what precisely you think the impact of this loss will be in terms of range of outcomes for the Clippers. From an earlier post, it almost sounded like you believe this is a make-or-break moment for their season, in which case I very much disagree:



See, I think there's basically zero chance the loss will mess with their heads so much that they go into a tailspin or something like that. I think they will be motivated to play hard next game, and then that'll be the end of it. The NBA season is too long and these pros are too used to moving onto the next game for this to be a make-or-break moment for them.

Not make or break, necessarily, but have an impact? Absolutely. Lots of moments can be season tipping points and this was definitely embarrassing. As moonpie noted, this team has also had some smoke swirling around it so I see this as another negative sign this team isn’t on the same page. Could it be a blip or serve as motivation? Sure. Could it be nothing? Also sure.

We shall see!

[Steven43]

Not make or break, necessarily, but have an impact? Absolutely. Lots of moments can be season tipping points and this was definitely embarrassing. As moonpie noted, this team has also had some smoke swirling around it so I see this as another negative sign this team isn’t on the same page. Could it be a blip or serve as motivation? Sure. Could it be nothing? Also sure.

We shall see!

Hey bundabergdevil, the Miami Heat lost by 47 tonight. That’s very close to the number of points the Clippers lost by the other night. So are the Heat going to be psychologically scarred for the rest of the season the way you think the Clippers are?

Personally, I think both teams shrug it off as just another loss and it means nothing in the big scheme of things.

But mostly I’m just messing with you. 😉

[bundabergdevil]

Hey bundabergdevil, the Miami Heat lost by 47 tonight. That’s very close to the number of points the Clippers lost by the other night. So are the Heat going to be psychologically scarred for the rest of the season the way you think the Clippers are?

Personally, I think both teams shrug it off as just another loss and it means nothing in the big scheme of things.

But mostly I’m just messing with you. 😉

As it were, I think the Heat will regress, too! I didn’t have them making the finals again.

I stand by my point: historic thumpings are not good for teams. A lot of y’all seem to think such smackdowns are the sign of a true champion! 😂

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

As it were, I think the Heat will regress, too! I didn’t have them making the finals again.

I stand by my point: historic thumpings are not good for teams. A lot of y’all seem to think such smackdowns are the sign of a true champion! 😂

Duke got historically thumped by UNLV in 1990 and it took years to recover.

(I know, very different, not relevant, etc - just love how Duke reacted to that particular embarrassing loss)

[Troublemaker]

Hey bundabergdevil, the Miami Heat lost by 47 tonight. That’s very close to the number of points the Clippers lost by the other night. So are the Heat going to be psychologically scarred for the rest of the season the way you think the Clippers are?

Personally, I think both teams shrug it off as just another loss and it means nothing in the big scheme of things.

But mostly I’m just messing with you. ��

Yeah, and the Clippers -- still without injured Kawhi -- won by 20 in their next game after the 50-pt loss. I think they're going to be fine.

The through-line between the two 50-pt losses is Playoff Revenge, as the Heat memorably knocked off the Bucks in the playoffs a couple of months ago, and the Clippers did the same to the Mavs.

It's actually almost patronizing how little effort the Heat and Clips gave in their respective revenge games. "There, there, Bucks/Mavs, you can have this 'lil regular season win. We'll see you in the playoffs. Remember what happened there?" The NBA season is long, and this particular Covid season is compressed, with games per week going up. The NBA regular season has always been a war of attrition but especially so this season; you have to manage your energy reserves. Did it make sense to try to match the amped-up energy of a revenge-minded opponent for one measly regular season win? The Heat and Clippers decided not, and they're going to be fine. (Re: the Clips. No one doubts the Heat's chemistry, and yet they lost by 50, too!).

[bundabergdevil]

Yeah, and the Clippers -- still without injured Kawhi -- won by 20 in their next game after the 50-pt loss. I think they're going to be fine.

The through-line between the two 50-pt losses is Playoff Revenge, as the Heat memorably knocked off the Bucks in the playoffs a couple of months ago, and the Clippers did the same to the Mavs.

It's actually almost patronizing how little effort the Heat and Clips gave in their respective revenge games. "There, there, Bucks/Mavs, you can have this 'lil regular season win. We'll see you in the playoffs. Remember what happened there?" The NBA season is long, and this particular Covid season is compressed, with games per week going up. The NBA regular season has always been a war of attrition but especially so this season; you have to manage your energy reserves. Did it make sense to try to match the amped-up energy of a revenge-minded opponent for one measly regular season win? The Heat and Clippers decided not, and they're going to be fine. (Re: the Clips. No one doubts the Heat's chemistry, and yet they lost by 50, too!).

So, I've got "eats Wheaties" and "loses by 50" as checklist items on Steven's and TM's checklist for true NBA greatness. Anything else we should add? "Mid-game tweeting" and "prefers strip clubs to practice", perhaps?

I kid, I kid. This all brings up an interesting questions. Is there an order of magnitude loss that would cause either of you to move from "that's a good or neutral thing" to "that's probably a bad thing". 50 isn't big enough, clearly. How about 60? 70? Surely, an 80 point loss would be cause for concern for you both! By the time we get to 90, we may need to check that the Cougar's Middle School JV team isn't actually on the court...

...keep my drubbings in the respectable 20s and 30s where they belong, dag-nab-it!.

[JasonEvans]

The last two undefeated teams in the NBA are the Atlanta Hawks and the Orlando Magic... you could have made a lot lot lot of money in Vegas with that parlay

[Troublemaker]

So, I've got "eats Wheaties" and "loses by 50" as checklist items on Steven's and TM's checklist for true NBA greatness. Anything else we should add? "Mid-game tweeting" and "prefers strip clubs to practice", perhaps?

I kid, I kid. This all brings up an interesting questions. Is there an order of magnitude loss that would cause either of you to move from "that's a good or neutral thing" to "that's probably a bad thing". 50 isn't big enough, clearly. How about 60? 70? Surely, an 80 point loss would be cause for concern for you both! By the time we get to 90, we may need to check that the Cougar's Middle School JV team isn't actually on the court...

...keep my drubbings in the respectable 20s and 30s where they belong, dag-nab-it!.

Ha! As long as I can explain the blowout (or at least think I can) -- whether it's injury, load management, or even just pure disinterest in matching the opponent's energy -- I wouldn't care if a team lost by 100. In fact, the degenerate in me would quickly check the schedule to see when their next game is played because all of a sudden, there may be value in betting the team who lost by a historical margin. (As it turns out, this method did earn in the case of the Clippers. Hmmm, lemme go check the Heat's schedule.)

[Troublemaker]

He probably does not come to mind because you have not seen him play enough. If you watch Trae, his passing and ability to find teammates is absurd. He was 2nd in the league in assists per game last season. His assist percentage, which measures how often he assists in a teammates basket while he is on the floor, is 42.8% for his career... Chris Paul and John Stockton are the only players in NBA history with a higher career assist rate.

Does Trae take some ill-advised shots? Yeah, but he is doing a lot less of that now than when he first came into the league. His FG% was just 41.8% as a rookie... not good. But he is at an impressive (for a guard) 53.1% so far this season. He is currently hitting better than 60% of his 2 point shots and 42% of his 3s. He has recognized that his shiftiness will allow him to draw fouls in a pretty big way and he is leading the league in FTA in this young season with 15.3 per game (he hits better than 90% of his FTs).

He is still a real problem on defense, but he is one of the most exciting players in the league to watch. I would be thrilled if he had come to Duke.

-Jason "with his ability to find bigs rolling to the basket, he's a pick and roll nightmare to NBA defenses... I think he is one of the top 3-5 offensive players in the league right now" Evans

With that glowing review, does he really fall that far behind Luka in terms of where they were drafted? From what you've said, it doesn't sound like Trae is that far away from being an MVP caliber player at some point. It's early yet, but the Hawks are 3-0 and the Mavs are 1-2. Seems like Luka's magic is not quite as magical withe lineup he's currently working with. I'm guessing that the lack of Porzingis allows opposing defenses to focus more on Luka, although i don't follow the Mavs that much. However, the obvious answer is that Luka no longer has a Duke alum to play with (Seth Curry), so...it's over.

Yeah, while I consider Luka to be the heavy favorite to win that trade that swapped Luka with Trae, I do not consider it a done deal. (And, in any case, hopefully Hawks fans can enjoy Trae regardless of where he and Luka rank in the pecking order). Ultimately, it's going to be playoff performance and accomplishment that will determine their respective legacies, and I *could* envision something like the following happening: Trae beats switches (a very common playoff defense) better than Luka does; specifically I think Trae might burn big men who switch onto him better than Luka does. Of course, even if this were true, you'd have counterbalance how much the gap is between the two on defense; Luka is considered to be an average defender that you can switch with while Trae is considered to be a poor defender that playoff offenses will target in switches.

So we'll see. But I think I laid out one path for Trae to win.

Also, note: The Mavs were notoriously bad in clutch situations last year. I mean, that's all the playoffs is: a bunch of recurring clutch situations.

Reading for the Mavs' lack of clutchness:
https://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2020/1...in-clutch-time
https://www.mavs.com/crisis-in-the-clutch/
https://mikeprada.substack.com/p/luk...clutch-offense
https://hoopshype.com/2020/08/06/dal...buzzer-beater/

(The third article by Mike Prada is easily the best if you want to read just one).

[COYS]

Yeah, while I consider Luka to be the heavy favorite to win that trade that swapped Luka with Trae, I do not consider it a done deal. (And, in any case, hopefully Hawks fans can enjoy Trae regardless of where he and Luka rank in the pecking order). Ultimately, it's going to be playoff performance and accomplishment that will determine their respective legacies, and I *could* envision something like the following happening: Trae beats switches (a very common playoff defense) better than Luka does; specifically I think Trae might burn big men who switch onto him better than Luka does. Of course, even if this were true, you'd have counterbalance how much the gap is between the two on defense; Luka is considered to be an average defender that you can switch with while Trae is considered to be a poor defender that playoff offenses will target in switches.

So we'll see. But I think I laid out one path for Trae to win.

Also, note: The Mavs were notoriously bad in clutch situations last year. I mean, that's all the playoffs is: a bunch of recurring clutch situations.

Reading for the Mavs' lack of clutchness:
https://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2020/1...in-clutch-time
https://www.mavs.com/crisis-in-the-clutch/
https://mikeprada.substack.com/p/luk...clutch-offense
https://hoopshype.com/2020/08/06/dal...buzzer-beater/

(The third article by Mike Prada is easily the best if you want to read just one).

I think it will also come down to how the team is built around each star. I'm a Hawks fan. I love Trae. He's so exciting to watch. That said, I will be shocked if Trae ends up being the better individual player when it comes to win shares or any of the advanced metrics.

Still, if the Hawks are able to build a team around him the same way the Warriors built a team around Steph, I could see Trae ending up with more postseason accomplishments plus sneaking in an MVP somewhere in there if he leads the league in scoring and assists at some point (which is certainly very possible). Steph is an amazing player and a surefire HOF. And yet, he was never the best player in the league. He had a perfect team and system built around him, though. That's pretty much my hope for the Hawks and for Trae.

Luca, on the other hand, could definitely be regarded as the best player in the league at some point. He's already close and he's still so young. He's truly phenomenal and I like watching him, too.

[JasonEvans]

Here's a little video of Trae making Kyrie look like... well... me on defense (that ain't good).

https://twitter.com/TheCrossover/sta...51820027060224

Perhaps the two best handles in the NBA on display tonight... this will be fun to watch.

[JasonEvans]

Here's a little video of Trae making Kyrie look like... well... me on defense (that ain't good).

https://twitter.com/TheCrossover/sta...51820027060224

Perhaps the two best handles in the NBA on display tonight... this will be fun to watch.

Hawks lead the Nets 68-67 at the half. Game being played in Brooklyn and this is a great test of whether the early season success for the Hawks is an illusion or the real thing.

Trae has 16 points and 5 assists at the half. Kyrie has been a disaster, 1-10 from the field for 4 points and only 2 assists.

[SouthernDukie]

Losing Dinwiddie looks like it’s going to be a huge deal for the Nets. They barely hold on and beat the Hawks at home after losing their two previous games. Spencer was a key player for them, and I now believe they’ve gone from being favorites in the East to being no better than a 3 or 4 seed.

[Troublemaker]

Fun game. Way too much isolation play by Kyrie in the 4th quarter (he should at least alternate isos with Durant!) but hey, it was mostly successful as the Nets hang on for a win.

BTW, after their embarrassing 50-pt loss to the Bucks yesterday, the Heat came right back today and spanked the Bucks by double digits despite still playing without Jimmy Butler. I'm not getting the sense that these huge blowouts are leaving a dent on the psyches of these NBA teams.