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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    DC Area
    Quote Originally Posted by Troublemaker View Post


    Any particular reason? They're a very well run organization that I'm betting will have the chemistry issues solved. And Kawhi and George are not old enough (29 and 30, respectively) to have major age-related regression.

    Frankly, one of the reasons I'm not in love with my Lakers title pick is that Lebron turns 36 in about a week. I mean, his body should be studied by science, and I think he'll be fine. Still, one of these years, inevitably...

    The Ringer had an article analyzing four contenders based on their Pythagorean records: https://www.theringer.com/2020/12/21...s-suns-nuggets

    The Clippers were not one of the four teams, but from the charts you can see they slightly under performed their expected record. The Lakers on the other hand were one of the largest over performers. This analysis would suggest that the Lakers are more likely to regress at least in terms of regular season record. A counter argument would be that the Lakers added better personnel around LeBron and AD while the Clippers lost talent on net.

    I am not sure how to think about chemistry issues; last year was the first season for the superstar pairing on each team. You could wonder whether adding more established players could disrupt the Laker's chemistry. Alternatively, you could look at the Clippers and believe that some of the same chemistry problems are still there.

    Just trying to support the return to NBA discussion. I personally will root for the unlikely outcome of the Pelicans beating the Trailblazers in the West and beating the Celtics in the finals (My NBA rooting interest is directly tied to the presence of the Brotherhood on the roster!)

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Travis View Post
    The Ringer had an article analyzing four contenders based on their Pythagorean records: https://www.theringer.com/2020/12/21...s-suns-nuggets

    The Clippers were not one of the four teams, but from the charts you can see they slightly under performed their expected record. The Lakers on the other hand were one of the largest over performers. This analysis would suggest that the Lakers are more likely to regress at least in terms of regular season record. A counter argument would be that the Lakers added better personnel around LeBron and AD while the Clippers lost talent on net.
    I disagree with this. I think the Clippers got better, too, i.e. both L.A. teams are better than they were before the offseason.

    I think Ibaka is better than Harrell, especially in a playoff setting. (I suppose you think the opposite if you believe the Clippers downgraded in talent?)

    I also believe our Luke Kennard is better than Landry Shamet since Luke can create as a ball-handler, too, not just play catch-and-shoot.

    Finally, I do think Tyronn Lue will prove to be an upgrade on Doc Rivers, for this specific situation and with this specific team and organization.

    All the other changes to the Clips besides those three were pretty marginal.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by Troublemaker View Post
    I disagree with this. I think the Clippers got better, too, i.e. both L.A. teams are better than they were before the offseason.

    I think Ibaka is better than Harrell, especially in a playoff setting. (I suppose you think the opposite if you believe the Clippers downgraded in talent?)

    I also believe our Luke Kennard is better than Landry Shamet since Luke can create as a ball-handler, too, not just play catch-and-shoot.

    Finally, I do think Tyronn Lue will prove to be an upgrade on Doc Rivers, for this specific situation and with this specific team and organization.

    All the other changes to the Clips besides those three were pretty marginal.
    I second all of this. The Clippers will almost surely be better this season than they were when we last saw them lose against Denver.

    I think theyíll beat the Lakers in the playoffs.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Outside Philly
    Quote Originally Posted by Troublemaker View Post
    Any particular reason? They're a very well run organization that I'm betting will have the chemistry issues solved. And Kawhi and George are not old enough (29 and 30, respectively) to have major age-related regression.

    Frankly, one of the reasons I'm not in love with my Lakers title pick is that Lebron turns 36 in about a week. I mean, his body should be studied by science, and I think he'll be fine. Still, one of these years, inevitably...
    Quote Originally Posted by Travis View Post
    The Ringer had an article analyzing four contenders based on their Pythagorean records: https://www.theringer.com/2020/12/21...s-suns-nuggets

    The Clippers were not one of the four teams, but from the charts you can see they slightly under performed their expected record. The Lakers on the other hand were one of the largest over performers. This analysis would suggest that the Lakers are more likely to regress at least in terms of regular season record. A counter argument would be that the Lakers added better personnel around LeBron and AD while the Clippers lost talent on net.

    I am not sure how to think about chemistry issues; last year was the first season for the superstar pairing on each team. You could wonder whether adding more established players could disrupt the Laker's chemistry. Alternatively, you could look at the Clippers and believe that some of the same chemistry problems are still there.

    Just trying to support the return to NBA discussion. I personally will root for the unlikely outcome of the Pelicans beating the Trailblazers in the West and beating the Celtics in the finals (My NBA rooting interest is directly tied to the presence of the Brotherhood on the roster!)

    Mostly what Travis said. I don't think the Clippers got better and lost one of their best players not named George or Leonard to the Lakers. I'm also not sold on Lue as a coach yet. Coaching LBJ during the height of his powers didn't sell me on him. And I just don't think their two stars fit well.

    Highly sophisticated analysis, I know, but that's what my gut says.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by bundabergdevil View Post
    I don't think the Clippers got better and lost one of their best players not named George or Leonard to the Lakers.
    Did you watch Harrell in the playoffs? He played poorly regardless of what the statistics may or may not appear to show and regardless of the meh Sixth Man award.

    Every time they needed him to hit a three-pointer or make a big play he did not come through. It happened again and again. Heís the Lakers problem now. I still cannot figure out why they did the Clippers this huge favor.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Outside Philly
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven43 View Post
    Did you watch Harrell in the playoffs? He played poorly regardless of what the statistics may or may not appear to show and regardless of the meh Sixth Man award.

    Every time they needed him to hit a three-pointer or make a big play he did not come through. It happened again and again. Heís the Lakers problem now. I still cannot figure out why they did the Clippers this huge favor.
    You think the Clippers got better? I'd love for Luke to make me eat crow but I guess I don't see how they improved versus last year's debacle unless you're saying addition by subtraction with Harrell...

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by bundabergdevil View Post
    You think the Clippers got better? I'd love for Luke to make me eat crow but I guess I don't see how they improved versus last year's debacle unless you're saying addition by subtraction with Harrell...
    Yes, addition by subtraction with Harrell. And the positives of the coaching change (Doc has lost soooo many series that he should have won over the years), and the additions of Ibaka and Luke.

    Read what Troublemaker wrote.

    The Clippers were already close. Their offseason moves will put them over the top. And Iím not saying this as a biased Clippers fan; the Celtics are my team. But I do have to admit that I despise the Lakers. So thereís that.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Wow, Kyrie and Kevin are already a combined 7-10 on FG, (2-3 on 3-pts). Nice start.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Las Vegas, Nevada (Ohio born and raised)
    If the #2 is Playoff P for the clippers, give me the lakers.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by LasVegas View Post
    If the #2 is Playoff P for the clippers, give me the lakers.
    That is a fair point.

    And by the way, I expect the Lakers to win big tonight. And Harrell will probably play pretty well. He has huge motivation for this game.

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Outside Philly
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven43 View Post
    Yes, addition by subtraction with Harrell. And the positives of the coaching change (Doc has lost soooo many series that he should have won over the years), and the additions of Ibaka and Luke.

    Read what Troublemaker wrote.

    The Clippers were already close. Their offseason moves will put them over the top. And I’m not saying this as a biased Clippers fan; the Celtics are my team. But I do have to admit that I despise the Lakers. So there’s that.
    Quote Originally Posted by LasVegas View Post
    If the #2 is Playoff P for the clippers, give me the lakers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Troublemaker View Post
    I disagree with this. I think the Clippers got better, too, i.e. both L.A. teams are better than they were before the offseason.

    I think Ibaka is better than Harrell, especially in a playoff setting. (I suppose you think the opposite if you believe the Clippers downgraded in talent?)

    I also believe our Luke Kennard is better than Landry Shamet since Luke can create as a ball-handler, too, not just play catch-and-shoot.

    Finally, I do think Tyronn Lue will prove to be an upgrade on Doc Rivers, for this specific situation and with this specific team and organization.

    All the other changes to the Clips besides those three were pretty marginal.
    I guess we'll see but, and I want all of you to consider this point carefully, it's the Clippers.

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by bundabergdevil View Post
    I guess we'll see but, and I want all of you to consider this point carefully, it's the Clippers.
    Might be the best point made thus far.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven43 View Post
    Might be the best point made thus far.
    No, you made the best point when you stated, “I despise the Lakers. So there’s that.”

    A shame the Nets took their foot off the Warriors’ throat in the 4th. I so wanted to see a 40+ plus point massacre. Just so I could watch Chuck and Kenny be at a loss for words in the post-game.

  14. #34
    And as I expected, the NBA TNT guys are all hating on KD and the Nets. They didn’t like Durant’s lack of enthusiasm in the post-game interview, but they have to understand if you are going to talk crap about a teammate and friend like Charles did about Kyrie, and then pick the Warriors to romp on you at your own arena, you shouldn’t expect an outgoing interview. Now I really hope the Nets win it all.

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDukie View Post
    Now I really hope the Nets win it all.
    What?! Come on, SD, what about the Cís???

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Las Vegas, Nevada (Ohio born and raised)
    Playoff P in early form tonight. Just whipped a pass to a wide open ref in the corner.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven43 View Post
    What?! Come on, SD, what about the Cís???
    Cís are definitely my second choice in the East.

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Bethesda, MD
    Andrew Wiggins is terrible.

  19. #39
    You could see how much the Lakers care about the regular season, as Lebron wasn't on the court in the 4th quarter as the Clippers pulled away, and the Lakers didn't put him back in to attempt a comeback. Feeling good about my take that the Lakers won't be the 1-seed. (It's the right move for them in his Age 36 season and given that last season just ended recently).

    Re: Paul George, it's a 48-minute game, haha. He ended up being the best player on the court yesterday, easily, despite the early pass to the ref. As for how good a #2 (i.e. second-banana) he is, I would say until recently, he would fit in just fine in the ranks of historical #2s. It's just that, after Steph recruited KD to his team, and Lebron recruited AD to his, the bar for second-bananas has been raised significantly recently. It's sick when your sidekick is a fellow top-5 player.

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by WillJ View Post
    Andrew Wiggins is terrible.
    Yes, and Iím not sure why anyone in the Golden State organization expected anything different. The guy has a long NBA history of not being good at basketball, particularly in regard to making his team better. Larry Bird or LeBron James he is not.

    This Golden State reboot might be in trouble. With Klay Thompson out for the year and Wiggins likely not helping much, they need Steph and Draymond to be healthy most of the regular season and all of the playoffs to have a chance to even be good, much less great.

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