Dukies in the NBA 2020-21

[Steven43]

If we're ranking disappointing losses-a strange way to while away the hours-than 1998 and 2004 have to be on my short list.

The 2004 Final Four game versus UConn was the most furious I’ve ever been at an officiating crew in any sport before or since. I truly felt — and still do — like Duke was cheated that day. I’ll never get over it.

And in my mind that was the de facto National Championship game as I’m quite confident the Blue Devils would have handled Georgia Tech in the Final.

[throatybeard]

Yep. ‘98 was devastating not only because of the blown lead and the opponent, but because that was the de facto title game. The winner there was guaranteed to be the National Champion.

No, they weren't.

[throatybeard]

The 2004 Final Four game versus UConn was the most furious I’ve ever been at an officiating crew in any sport before or since. I truly felt — and still do — like Duke was cheated that day. I’ll never get over it.

And in my mind that was the de facto National Championship game as I’m quite confident the Blue Devils would have handled Georgia Tech in the Final.

Georgia Tech beat Duke in Durham just weeks earlier.

[Steven43]

Georgia Tech beat Duke in Durham just weeks earlier.

Duke beat Georgia Tech twice that season, and the most recent time they had played prior to the NCAA tournament Duke won 85-71.

I would have taken the Devils to beat Tech in the Final by double digits.

[sagegrouse]

Yep. ‘98 was devastating not only because of the blown lead and the opponent, but because that was the de facto title game. The winner there was guaranteed to be the National Champion.

I don't think one in a thousand who followed basketball closely back then would agree with this. The Cats faced Stanford in the national semis, and had to go to OT to win. They dodged a meeting with UNC -- who, with Jamison and Carter, seemed to be the strongest team in the country -- when the Tar Heels got upset by Majerus' Utah team. UNC has defeated Duke handily in the ACC finals, reversing the uber-exciting Duke win the previous week on Senior Day. Yep -- I was there for that.

Perhaps you are thinking of the national semis in 2004, when Duke and UConn both seemed much stronger than the other teams (Ga. Tech and Oklahoma State).

[dukelifer]

Georgia Tech beat Duke in Durham just weeks earlier.

Tech lost handily to Duke in the ACC Tourney in 2004. Duke did lose to Maryland by 8 in the Finals.

[sagegrouse]

Tech lost handily to Duke in the ACC Tourney in 2004. Duke did lose to Maryland by 8 in the Finals.

It was in OT, I believe, and we surrendered a big lead at the end of the game. Interrupted our five-year streak of consecutive ACC titles.

[robed deity]

It was in OT, I believe, and we surrendered a big lead at the end of the game. Interrupted our five-year streak of consecutive ACC titles.

For whatever reason, Duke couldn't stop John Gilchrist. Haven't thought of that name in a while.

[jimsumner]

Tech lost handily to Duke in the ACC Tourney in 2004. Duke did lose to Maryland by 8 in the Finals.

Duke and GT split in the 2004 regular season, each team winning on the road. Duke defeated Tech 85-71 in the ACCT, 10 days after losing to them in Cameron 76-68.

I've always thought the officiating at the end of the 2004 ACCT title game was as bad as what Duke would face a few weeks later in the FF. Lots of calls went against Duke at the end of that one. Lots.

Duke was ranked sixth going into the 2004 NCAAT. They would have been a clear favorite over Tech in the title game, which would not have guaranteed a win, of course. There have been some upsets in that game.

[BigZ]

Cassius Stanley will be in the dunk contest. Don’t mean to insult him but if they have to pull guys from the G League that’s bad

[SouthernDukie]

I don't think one in a thousand who followed basketball closely back then would agree with this. The Cats faced Stanford in the national semis, and had to go to OT to win. They dodged a meeting with UNC -- who, with Jamison and Carter, seemed to be the strongest team in the country -- when the Tar Heels got upset by Majerus' Utah team. UNC has defeated Duke handily in the ACC finals, reversing the uber-exciting Duke win the previous week on Senior Day. Yep -- I was there for that.

Perhaps you are thinking of the national semis in 2004, when Duke and UConn both seemed much stronger than the other teams (Ga. Tech and Oklahoma State).

Nope, not thinking of the 2004 semifinals, although the same thing was definitely true that year as well. The best two teams going into the Sweet Sixteen were Duke and UK. I will always believe that Elite Eight game winner was as close to a sure thing as one could get. Tark agreed, saying during the ‘99 Final Four that he thought Duke was the best team the year before. But to each his own.

[jimsumner]

Nope, not thinking of the 2004 semifinals, although the same thing was definitely true that year as well. The best two teams going into the Sweet Sixteen were Duke and UK. I will always believe that Elite Eight game winner was as close to a sure thing as one could get. Tark agreed, saying during the ‘99 Final Four that he thought Duke was the best team the year before. But to each his own.

This was the year that freshman Elton Brand broke a foot and missed a sizeable chunk of the season. He was back before the end of the regular season but was still rounding into shape and getting back to form. Another weekend and . . . we can all dream.

This was one of K's deeper teams. Langdon, Wojo, Roshown McLeod (he was really good down the stretch), Carrawell, Chappell, Domzalski and the freshman class of Brand, Battier, Avery and Burgess. Ricky Price was a senior but had academic issues and played sparingly.

Duke was 15-1 in the ACC, Carolina 13-3. They split in the regular season but Carolina defeated Duke handily in the ACC T title game. Brand was the wildcard here. I think Duke's chances in the FF would have been pretty good, especially given what happened to UNC in the other bracket. But Stanford was nobody's pushover.

[budwom]

Winslow scores 20 for the Grizz in 21 minutes, Tyus scores 13 in 16 minutes as they rout the Rockettes.

[DukieInBrasil]

Winslow scores 20 for the Grizz in 21 minutes, Tyus scores 13 in 16 minutes as they rout the Rockettes.

Justise's first high-quality game since returning, good to see that he's still got it! Tyus, otoh, has had several high-scoring games lately. His 3pt shot was falling last night, but overall it's been a real weakness for him this year. TJ is approaching 30% on 3FGs, but it is still the biggest weakness of his game. If he were shooting >37.5% on 3s he'd probably be starting somewhere.

Elsewhere:
Marvin Bagley had a big dub-dub in the loss (24-10-1-2-1)
Tatum had a big game in the win (31-8-3-3) and Semi chipped in 4pts
RJ had another fine game for the suddenly relevant Knicks (21-5-3-1-1) in the win over MP2's Pistons (9-5-1).

of note: none of last year's draft class is currently active for their teams. Also, neither Frank Jackson nor Jah are getting minutes for the Pistons, although Frank plays sparingly, occasionally. I think their NBA careers may be coming to an end, although both have a good shot at making decent money overseas.

[JasonEvans]

Justise's first high-quality game since returning, good to see that he's still got it! Tyus, otoh, has had several high-scoring games lately. His 3pt shot was falling last night, but overall it's been a real weakness for him this year. TJ is approaching 30% on 3FGs, but it is still the biggest weakness of his game. If he were shooting >37.5% on 3s he'd probably be starting somewhere.

Elsewhere:
Marvin Bagley had a big dub-dub in the loss (24-10-1-2-1)
Tatum had a big game in the win (31-8-3-3) and Semi chipped in 4pts
RJ had another fine game for the suddenly relevant Knicks (21-5-3-1-1) in the win over MP2's Pistons (9-5-1).

of note: none of last year's draft class is currently active for their teams. Also, neither Frank Jackson nor Jah are getting minutes for the Pistons, although Frank plays sparingly, occasionally. I think their NBA careers may be coming to an end, although both have a good shot at making decent money overseas.

Bagley has been on a roll lately. He's been in double-digits in each of his last 9 games including games of 26, 24, 19 (x4), and 17. He's also had 5 double-digit rebound games in his last 10. His minutes have also ticked up a bit lately... playing upper 20s and low-30s versus low-20s and sometimes teens earlier this season. He's also fouling less, which may be an indication he is starting to get a tiny bit better on defense. If he can be even a competent defender, it gets easier to have him on the floor more and I think he can become a fringe NBA all-star.

Of course, the bottom line is winning and Sacto has taken a big step back in that arena this season. On Feb 7th, they beat the Clippers and were 12-11 on the season, looking like a team headed to maybe a 6 or 7 seed in the Western playoffs... it has been all downhill since then. The Kings have lost 10 of 11 and it looks like they should be eyeing draft position more than looking for wins. It is possible that may encourage them to give Bagley more and more time as they seek to improve their young base. I mean, why give minutes to 32 year old free agent to be PF Nemanja Bjelica at this point?

-Jason "Marvin may always be haunted by the fact that he was taken one spot ahead of Luca and 3 ahead of Trae (who appear to be perennial all-stars), but he's only 21 and still has a chance to make that pick look like a decent choice" Evans

[jimsumner]

. Also, neither Frank Jackson nor Jah are getting minutes for the Pistons, although Frank plays sparingly, occasionally. I think their NBA careers may be coming to an end, although both have a good shot at making decent money overseas.

Okafor is hurt and out for a month or two. Of course, he wasn't getting much PT when he was healthy.

[JasonEvans]

Okafor is hurt and out for a month or two. Of course, he wasn't getting much PT when he was healthy.

Isiah Stewart is playing well for Detroit and so is Mason. Tough to find post minutes when the newly signed big-money dude and the newly drafted youngster are both ahead of you in the rotation.

[jimsumner]

Isiah Stewart is playing well for Detroit and so is Mason. Tough to find post minutes when the newly signed big-money dude and the newly drafted youngster are both ahead of you in the rotation.

Interesting how Stewart is seeing the floor while Vernon Carey is in the G-League. I can't believe there's that big a talent gap. Different institutional philosophies, perhaps.

[JasonEvans]

Interesting how Stewart is seeing the floor while Vernon Carey is in the G-League. I can't believe there's that big a talent gap. Different institutional philosophies, perhaps.

Well, Detroit has Mason and Jah (injured) as big men on the roster. Their PFs don't really slide over to center either (especially with Blake Griffin also hurt). So, there is a clear role for Stewart to play. Charlotte, on the other hand, has PJ Washington and Miles Bridges ahead of Vernon at PF. Not much room to grab playing time behind those two. I don't think the NBA sees Vernon as a center and the Hornets have Cody Zeller and rim protector Bizmack Biyombo at that spot anyway.

Also, Detroit is bad and looking to develop youngsters while also eyeing the draft. Charlotte is in the thick of the playoff race and has a team built around experienced players like Hayward and Rozier. Charlotte is in no mood to have a big man learning while on the job.

Vernon is young. I strongly suspect he will find a meaningful role in the league down the line.

[CDu]

Interesting how Stewart is seeing the floor while Vernon Carey is in the G-League. I can't believe there's that big a talent gap. Different institutional philosophies, perhaps.

It's not really a talent gap, but rather a difference in stylistic fit with the NBA. Stewart is more mobile and better defensively, and in the NBA those things matter unless you are superlative on offense. I think Stewart is also longer armed, which offsets the height difference.

On top of that, Charlotte seems pretty committed to playing smallball whenever one of Zeller and Biyombo aren't available, using PJ Washington and Jalen McDaniels as undersized bigs.