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  1. #141
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
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    Hillsborough,nc
    Quote Originally Posted by miramar View Post
    I was hoping that Moore would become the team's glue guy this season. After all, he has international experience with the USA junior teams and was ranked #18 last year by ESPN. And he certainly demonstrated that he could hit the clutch shot against UNC.

    I certainly hope that Brakefield has a great year, but I'm not quite ready for a rotation consisting of Jordan and the Teenagers.

    I have yet to understand why Baker blew his freshman redshirt year, but that's a separate issue.
    Understand why coach decided not to play the bigs against Chopin ... little ball. ( good move ).
    Do not get not playing them against msu. Maybe they could have done better than little ball.

  2. #142
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by miramar View Post
    I have yet to understand why Baker blew his freshman redshirt year, but that's a separate issue.
    maybe because he didn't want to be here more than 4 years so why not play for one of them? Some people might want to move on with life, especially if an NBA career likely isn't in the cards. I'm not ascribing that reason in this case, just suggesting that it shouldn't be inconceivable that one might not care to redshirt.
    1200. DDMF.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Rickshaw View Post
    Understand why coach decided not to play the bigs against Chopin ... little ball. ( good move ).
    Do not get not playing them against msu. Maybe they could have done better than little ball.
    Yeah. K was right to compose a different lineup.

  4. #144
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Rickshaw View Post
    Understand why coach decided not to play the bigs against Chopin ... little ball. ( good move ).
    Do not get not playing them against msu. Maybe they could have done better than little ball.
    Playing Chopin State involves a blend of delicate touch and rhythmic control.

  5. #145
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Dur'm
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    Playing Chopin State involves a blend of delicate touch and rhythmic control.
    You'd think that when Chopin State meets Baldwin Wallace University, it would be beautiful music, but ironically, the latter is an All Steinway school.

  6. #146
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Phredd3 View Post
    You'd think that when Chopin State meets Baldwin Wallace University, it would be beautiful music, but ironically, the latter is an All Steinway school.
    Maybe it's a prelude to something better.

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Phredd3 View Post
    You'd think that when Chopin State meets Baldwin Wallace University, it would be beautiful music, but ironically, the latter is an All Steinway school.
    I remember when they were a Yamaha school.

  8. #148
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Dur'm
    Quote Originally Posted by ClemmonsDevil View Post
    I remember when they were a Yamaha school.
    I thought that was Harley Davidson, but I guess that's a completely different school.

  9. #149
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Winston’Salem
    Quote Originally Posted by Phredd3 View Post
    I thought that was Harley Davidson, but I guess that's a completely different school.
    That’s where Steph Curry played, right?
    "Amazing what a minute can do."

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Tripping William View Post
    That’s where Steph Curry played, right?
    No. Harley is Patrick's dad.

  11. #151
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    Let me throw another variable into the mix. We'll have something on Brakefield up later. If Brakefield continues to play better than Moore, better than Baker--I know, I know, small sample size--does it behoove Duke to get even younger in the starting lineup?
    Love it. I think I'm going to upvote you. I had been kicking around in my head that, if Coach K wants to continue to play 5-out motion ("motion" at this point in its development) instead of running more sets (my preference), we should start Brakefield in place of Wendell. I still like Wendell a lot, just not in a five-out motion scheme. He's a ball-stopper (doesn't make quick decisions), his quickness and ball-handling doesn't get him enough of an advantage on the defender on drives, which leads to turnovers. 5-out motion is about stacking little edges one on top of another (for example, by stringing together multiple drive-and-kicks on the same possession), cascading the little edges until they become a big edge (e.g. an open layup opportunity). Wendell, playing the 3, doesn't seem to be able to create an edge with his quickness/ball-handling, and he loses any edge that is passed to him by being a slow decision-maker.

    I was gonna suggest Brakefield-over-Wendell as a possible lineup change, and then I go on the forum and find that Jim Sumner has beaten me to it! I wouldn't have expected that from an old-guard journalist like Jim. Upvotes for you, sir.

    Quote Originally Posted by miramar View Post
    I have yet to understand why Baker blew his freshman redshirt year, but that's a separate issue.
    Coach K burned his redshirt, not Joey, as I gotta believe Coach K was the ultimate decision-maker. Let me add that Joey's career up to this point makes me shrug at the decision to burn his redshirt, instead of freaking out like many did. He very well might be a 7th or 8th man his entire career at Duke.

  12. #152
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Winston Salem, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Troublemaker View Post
    Love it. I think I'm going to upvote you. I had been kicking around in my head that, if Coach K wants to continue to play 5-out motion ("motion" at this point in its development) instead of running more sets (my preference), we should start Brakefield in place of Wendell. I still like Wendell a lot, just not in a five-out motion scheme. He's a ball-stopper (doesn't make quick decisions), his quickness and ball-handling doesn't get him enough of an advantage on the defender on drives, which leads to turnovers. 5-out motion is about stacking little edges one on top of another (for example, by stringing together multiple drive-and-kicks on the same possession), cascading the little edges until they become a big edge (e.g. an open layup opportunity). Wendell, playing the 3, doesn't seem to be able to create an edge with his quickness/ball-handling, and he loses any edge that is passed to him by being a slow decision-maker.

    I was gonna suggest Brakefield-over-Wendell as a possible lineup change, and then I go on the forum and find that Jim Sumner has beaten me to it! I wouldn't have expected that from an old-guard journalist like Jim. Upvotes for you, sir.



    Coach K burned his redshirt, not Joey, as I gotta believe Coach K was the ultimate decision-maker. Let me add that Joey's career up to this point makes me shrug at the decision to burn his redshirt, instead of freaking out like many did. He very well might be a 7th or 8th man his entire career at Duke.
    Must spread them sporkzz. So far in Wendell's career it looks like he's a ball stopper on offense. A player that can't shoot from the perimeter and is proven to be turnover prone should not have the ball in his hands as much as Wendell does. I really expected big things from him this season but I don't see any improvement from his freshmen year. Maybe Brakefield can fill that role.

    GoDuke!

  13. #153
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by Troublemaker View Post

    Coach K burned his redshirt, not Joey, as I gotta believe Coach K was the ultimate decision-maker.
    That's not how I remember it...it was covered as "Joey went to K and said he was ready to play and wanted to contribute"

    Quote Originally Posted by https://247sports.com/college/duke/Article/joey-baker-doesnt-agree-that-his-freshman-season-was-a-wasted-chance-132697775/
    And then Duke began suffering injuries and Baker, according to an interview with CL Brown taken at the 2019 Coach K Academy, continued to let head coach Mike Krzyzewkski and his assistants know that he was ready, willing, and able to step on the court and contribute.
    Obviously K ultimately puts him the game...but saying it was "K not joey" is a bit disingenuous given Joey's eagerness and seeming initiative in the matter.
    1200. DDMF.

  14. #154
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Troublemaker View Post
    Wendell, playing the 3, doesn't seem to be able to create an edge with his quickness/ball-handling, and he loses any edge that is passed to him by being a slow decision-maker.
    Yeah, Moore seems destined to be a bit like Winslow in that he is a better smallball 4 than he is a 3. Winslow was a little more athletic and a little less ball dominant, but he really got unlocked when he moved to the 4 at Duke. Moore's ballhandling and decision making have been a disappointment this year, especially relative to the role he has played. If he would take a less prominent role in the offense, his length and athleticism should make him an asset. But for whatever reason, he hasn't managed to fill that role of role player on offense, and has seemed to all too frequently stop the ball movement and set up iso chances for himself (which haven't gone well). And as you note, he doesn't have the quickness/explosiveness to exploit folks off the dribble.

    My only hesitation with Brakefield is that he may run into the same issues that Moore does. He seems to be an asset when matched up against 4s/5s, but does he run into the same problems that Moore does when playing at the 3? I mean, clearly Moore at the 3 isn't working well right now, so maybe it is worth seeing regardless. I just wonder if we'll end up with a similar outcome. SF seems to be the one spot where we don't have a clear fit: either we are "too small" with Goldwire there or we are too slow with Moore or (perhaps) Brakefield there, or we don't have enough ballhandling skill there (Baker and perhaps Moore and Brakefield fit here as well).d

    Quote Originally Posted by Troublemaker View Post
    Coach K burned his redshirt, not Joey, as I gotta believe Coach K was the ultimate decision-maker. Let me add that Joey's career up to this point makes me shrug at the decision to burn his redshirt, instead of freaking out like many did. He very well might be a 7th or 8th man his entire career at Duke.
    Yeah, undoubtedly Coach K made that call. Yes, Baker agreed, but it's one of those "offer you can't refuse" situations. If Coach K comes to you as an 18 year old kid and says "we need you, are you willing and ready?", you have to say yes. It was a tough situation.

    That said, the value of Baker's nonredshirt will not be known until about 17 months or more from now. Clearly at the moment it isn't looking all that relevant. But how will he look at 22-23? A stretch 4 with his shooting and the added strength and experience that comes with another 1.5-2 years of growth might well be valuable on what will likely be a young team. And it of course depends on the composition of the team in a year plus.

    The bigger issue with the redshirt is that it was totally unnecessary. Baker played like 5 non-blowout minutes that year and under 20 total. Those handful of minutes could easily have gone elsewhere, and they had to know he wasn't really ready for meaningful minutes. Seems like a waste, even if he IS just a 7th/8th man in value at age 23.

    In any case, that discussion has been overdone anyway, so apologies for continuing it.

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    That's not how I remember it...it was covered as "Joey went to K and said he was ready to play and wanted to contribute"



    Obviously K ultimately puts him the game...but saying it was "K not joey" is a bit disingenuous given Joey's eagerness and seeming initiative in the matter.
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    Yeah, undoubtedly Coach K made that call. Yes, Baker agreed, but it's one of those "offer you can't refuse" situations. If Coach K comes to you as an 18 year old kid and says "we need you, are you willing and ready?", you have to say yes. It was a tough situation.

    That said, the value of Baker's nonredshirt will not be known until about 17 months or more from now. Clearly at the moment it isn't looking all that relevant. But how will he look at 22-23? A stretch 4 with his shooting and the added strength and experience that comes with another 1.5-2 years of growth might well be valuable on what will likely be a young team. And it of course depends on the composition of the team in a year plus.

    The bigger issue with the redshirt is that it was totally unnecessary. Baker played like 5 non-blowout minutes that year and under 20 total. Those handful of minutes could easily have gone elsewhere, and they had to know he wasn't really ready for meaningful minutes. Seems like a waste, even if he IS just a 7th/8th man in value at age 23.

    In any case, that discussion has been overdone anyway, so apologies for continuing it.
    Not to belabor it, but it was definitely Coach K's call and Joey agreed to it. If the GOAT asks you: "are you ready to play if your number is called?" are you really going to say "no?!?" If Joey "really wanted to play" and had that much power, he would have done so from the season onset, not with a few games left. Coach K even explicitly addressed this after the game (Syracuse?) when asked from a reporter. He equated it to a minor league pitcher getting called up to the majors and lighting a fire under the current pitchers to perform better. He was specifcially talking about AOC performing better once Joey got some minutes because he saw the competition in front of him was real.

    That 247 article was being a bit 'charitable' to say the least. I'm sure Joey would also say "he wanted to play." That's not necssarily inaccurate. But who actually initiated the decision/had the power. Undoubtedly, Coach K. He also clearly was the person with the initial redshirt idea at the beginning of the season and Joey obliged as he's a team player and wants to do what's best for the team by all accounts.

  16. #156
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluedog View Post
    Not to belabor it, but it was definitely Coach K's call and Joey agreed to it.
    You've asked K and Joey about this, I assume? Or you have some other source? I mean, you wouldn't just be speculating, of course, as that's not allowed here.
    1200. DDMF.

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    You've asked K and Joey about this, I assume? Or you have some other source? I mean, you wouldn't just be speculating, of course, as that's not allowed here.
    Uh oh, uh_no, you threw down the gauntlet. We might should consider revisiting Rodney King’s words of wisdom before this goes any further (farther?). 😉

  18. #158
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Atlanta
    It's been a while. I haven't posted or even looked at the boards in a while. Did anyone miss me? LOL

    Anyway, I'll say this. We've been so spoiled:

    Wendell Carter
    Maving Bagley
    RJ Barrett
    Zion
    Vernon Cary

    These guys were MEN. Absolute studs. I can honestly say they never looked like or played like freshman.

    This team, against MSU? We looked young. Very young. Not just the freshmen, but up and down the line they looked young, even the upper classmen. Stupid mistakes, mental errors, trying to force the action. I'd like to say I look forward to seeing them grow, but I'm not sure I can say that. To some extent, covid has sapped the joy. Do I really want to emotionally invest myself in this team, this season, to be left wondering what could have been if the season ends up totally disrupted? The lock down back to last March has simply taken the air out of so much, and has taken the joy out of all sports, even Duke BBall.

    I will watch tonight, but even that is a surreal experience. And I cant even tell who the players are right now. Sorry to be a Debbie Downer. Is anyone else feeling this way?

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by BandAlum83 View Post
    It's been a while. I haven't posted or even looked at the boards in a while. Did anyone miss me?
    Of course we did! We thought the ol’ Covid had got ya’.

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    You've asked K and Joey about this, I assume? Or you have some other source? I mean, you wouldn't just be speculating, of course, as that's not allowed here.
    Coach K said so after the game...Check the video.

    Also See the following article for quotes:
    https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/article226732729.html

    Krzyzewski said Baker impressed the coaches in practice more and more lately. With the regular season down to two weeks and the NCAA tournament a month away, he couldn’t wait any more for the team’s 3-point shooting to improve.

    “He’s played well in practice,” Krzyzewski said of Baker. “He did a good job. Obviously we haven’t shot the ball well, except for that Virginia game. Alex and Joey are two of our better shooters. So we are going to look to see if he can continue to get stuff.”

    He said then he was open to helping the team this year if need be. But even if he didn’t, Baker thought he would improve as a player by being in the Duke program as a redshirt.

    BAKER STAYED READY
    On Thursday and Friday, when the Blue Devils were formulating a plan for Syracuse without Williamson, Baker got word from the coaching staff to expect to play.

    “Joey, he’s been working his butt off since he got on campus,” DeLaurier said. “The coaches thought it was time for him to play in a game and we were excited to see him out there so he could finally reap the rewards of his hard work. He came in and did some good things for us.”


    I don't know how anybody could read that and say it wasn't a coaches decision. Of course, I agree that Joey said "he'd be ready to play if called upon."
    Last edited by Bluedog; 12-04-2020 at 06:37 PM.

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