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Thread: 2020 NBA Draft

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by SupaDave View Post
    Tre and Stanley should consider themselves lucky bc they are going to solid organizations who aren't in some form of rebuild.
    San Antonio is rebuilding. They missed the playoffs and the Aldridge-DeRozan pairing is not enough to compete in the West.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Native View Post
    Carey to the Hornets!
    Almost makes up for taking Ball in the first round. Almost.

    Quote Originally Posted by Furniture View Post
    Cassius to Indiana...54th pick.
    I'm not sure what Stanley's ceiling will be in the NBA, but I think the Pacers got a steal picking him up this late.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by BigZ View Post
    MJ likes drafting Duke guys
    MJ and his brilliant sidekick, fellow Cheat GM may have taken Carey just to bench him for 3 years. Hornets management rivals the WTF football team ownership.

    Best thing that can happen to Carey is to be traded.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by arnie View Post
    MJ and his brilliant sidekick, fellow Cheat GM may have taken Carey just to bench him for 3 years. Hornets management rivals the WTF football team ownership.

    Best thing that can happen to Carey is to be traded.

    No one is going to argue that Jordan and the Hornets have much of a track record. But Charlotte was one of the league's worst rebounding teams last season and their center rotation is distinctly meh. Carey has a real chance to grab major minutes here.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    No one is going to argue that Jordan and the Hornets have much of a track record. But Charlotte was one of the league's worst rebounding teams last season and their center rotation is distinctly meh. Carey has a real chance to grab major minutes here.
    100% agree about this. One of the better landing spots for Carey, IMO, and as an early 2nd rounder he will get a guaranteed deal that won't be much worse than being a 1st round draft pick.

    I also happen to think Casisus may have landed in a good spot. He is the only draft pick Indiana had this season, so he is somewhat going to be the focus of their development efforts. While it is far from certain that he makes the opening day roster, I think he has a significantly better shot at it than most other guys drafted in the back half of the 2nd round. There will be no summer league and training camp will be greatly shortened, I suspect that gives a leg up to a situation like Casisus' where he is the only new draft pick on the roster and there won't be much time for UFA to make a mark and perhaps push him aside.
    I don't know what you are doing right now, but if you aren't listening to the DBR Podcast, you're doing it wrong.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by YmoBeThere View Post
    San Antonio is rebuilding. They missed the playoffs and the Aldridge-DeRozan pairing is not enough to compete in the West.
    I wouldn't call a team that finished the season with a losing record for the first time since the 1996–97 season in the middle of a rebuild. Losing Leonard would hurt ANY team.

    They still got invited to the bubble. They still have a great coach, GM, and several other good players. BUT I agree that they need some more YOUNG fire power and if it's one organization I trust to do that - it's the Spurs. The Spurs incidentally also like to DEVELOP their players - great spot for Tre to land.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matches View Post
    McHale could shoot, including from 3. He was a strong defender as well. He would be a wonderful 5 in today’s game.

    The pro and college games are different. Drafting primarily based on college performance is a good way to end up with a team full of guys who are best suited to be 8th or 9th guys in an NBA rotation.

    With that said, I think some teams may regret passing on Carey. He’s a better shooter than people think - the issue will be whether he can defend.
    McHale was 41-for-157 (26.1 percent) on 3s. That's in 13 NBA seasons, 971 games. So, 3-point shooting was not one his strengths.

    The question mark on Carey is his ability to defend guards on the back end of pick-and-rolls. He lost 30 pounds since the end of his Duke season but didn't have the chance to show off his presumed newly-found-defensive quickness in 5v5 workouts. NBA talent evaluators were looking at an earlier version of Carey, not the new and improved version.

  8. #68
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    New Bern, NC unless it's a home football game then I'm grilling on Devil's Alley
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    100% agree about this. One of the better landing spots for Carey, IMO, and as an early 2nd rounder he will get a guaranteed deal that won't be much worse than being a 1st round draft pick.

    I also happen to think Casisus may have landed in a good spot. He is the only draft pick Indiana had this season, so he is somewhat going to be the focus of their development efforts. While it is far from certain that he makes the opening day roster, I think he has a significantly better shot at it than most other guys drafted in the back half of the 2nd round. There will be no summer league and training camp will be greatly shortened, I suspect that gives a leg up to a situation like Casisus' where he is the only new draft pick on the roster and there won't be much time for UFA to make a mark and perhaps push him aside.
    That would be a pretty cool band name.
    Q "Why do you like Duke, you didn't even go there." A "Because my art school didn't have a basketball team."

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyNotCrazie View Post
    I am not a close follower of the NBA, so correct me if I am wrong, but quickness is what is valued most now. McHale was a good post defender, but I can't imagine him quickly switching off P&R at the top of the key - I don't recall him having fast feet, which is why I chose him as an example. And that is what everyone seems to want today.

    I agree that the college and pro games are different. And I wish they weren't. But I guess plenty of people disagree with me, which they are entitled to do.
    I will modify what you are saying here. I think shooting is highly valued followed by the ability to defend the perimeter (which 'quickness' greatly enables) and guard multiple positions. While the NBA is in love with 3s, it is equally in love with foul shots and shots within 5 feet of the basket. The modern big needs to be able to either shoot from the outside so that the floor stays spread out and the driving lanes are not clogged, or they need to be excellent in the pick and roll where they are diving to the rim for lobs. If the can shoot, that pick and roll turns into a "pick and pop" where they are shooting from outside. Or, best of all, as Troublemaker highlighted in a nice video series in a different thread (the other NBA draft thread, perhaps?), they can master the "short roll" where they set a pick, get the ball back quickly as they roll ('short' meaning that they have only taken a step or so as opposed to being all the way at the rim) and from there they playmake/pass...ala the template for this type of action..Draymond Green. What is not valued is the iso possession in the post where the big on the block catches and "goes to work" while everyone else stands around. However, if that big can play defense (which means protecting the rim and guarding perimeter and everything in between, especially as zones come back into vogue), there is increasing tolerance for the dump down/go to work action, especially if the big has Jah-like post game, because as soon as he commands a double, shooters are open...so, again, he's got to be able to pass.

    Bottom line, modern NBA players need to be able to do all of these things...shoot, defend, dribble and pass...at pretty high levels or else the other team will exploit their being on the floor.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by CameronBornAndBred View Post
    Daniel Jones of the NBA?
    Williams scouting report includes that he is a bit turnover-prone...

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    McHale was 41-for-157 (26.1 percent) on 3s. That's in 13 NBA seasons, 971 games. So, 3-point shooting was not one his strengths.

    The question mark on Carey is his ability to defend guards on the back end of pick-and-rolls. He lost 30 pounds since the end of his Duke season but didn't have the chance to show off his presumed newly-found-defensive quickness in 5v5 workouts. NBA talent evaluators were looking at an earlier version of Carey, not the new and improved version.
    I'd like to partake of the statistician's favorite game: cherry picking. McHale was not really a 3 point shooter his first 9 seasons, totaling 1 for 20, or about 2 attempts per season. In his last two seasons, his minutes, and 2 point percentage fell off, and his 3 point shooting was again poor, 2 for 31. But he had two seasons of good shooting from deep, 89-90 and 90-91, when he totaled 38 for 106, 35%. So, for a time, 3 point shooting was an effective part of his game.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neals384 View Post
    I'd like to partake of the statistician's favorite game: cherry picking. McHale was not really a 3 point shooter his first 9 seasons, totaling 1 for 20, or about 2 attempts per season. In his last two seasons, his minutes, and 2 point percentage fell off, and his 3 point shooting was again poor, 2 for 31. But he had two seasons of good shooting from deep, 89-90 and 90-91, when he totaled 38 for 106, 35%. So, for a time, 3 point shooting was an effective part of his game.
    McHale made 38 3s in 150 games in his two best 3-point shooting seasons. That's a little better than one made 3-pointer every four games. If you want to maintain that constitutes an effective part of his arsenal then have at it.

  13. #73
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    To leave out subtleties:

    Carey played at 270*.

    Opposing teams let Tre shoot uncontested 15 footers with a frequency I don’t recall since Billy King.**

    Cassius doesn’t have an elite basketball skill.***

    *No one at the 2020 Combine weighed more than 266. The only drafted Duke players heavier than him were Zion and Jahlil. In terms of weight, he edged out Martin Nessley and Mike Gminski, who were both taller and not known for their speed. In addition to losing 30 pounds (!), he needs to show he can actually play stretch 4, or at least a highly mobile 5.
    The mentions of his dad as an 8-season NFL offensive lineman Doesn’t help his cause.

    **not that Tre didn’t make some of them, and I have to think he can be as good an NBA player (or better) than his brother. Billy King, meanwhile, was an epically bad shooter (but great defender and dunker).

    ***Stanley’s 44” vertical was highest of the combine, but jumping isn’t a skill.

    Any of the 3 mighta gone in the 1st round if they’d led the team into a successful final four, but, given the reality, all were likely 2nd round risks when they decided to go pro.

    I have to think our rep for producing one and dones has led us to having the most undergrad 2nd round picks in the country over the past 4 years, which would contrast with the Grant Hill/Laettner years when we had the highest number of elite players stay to graduate.****

    ****in the spirit of the age, i made up both of those stats, but I’m keeping them since they support my narrative.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnb View Post
    To leave out subtleties:

    Carey played at 270*.

    Opposing teams let Tre shoot uncontested 15 footers with a frequency I don’t recall since Billy King.**

    Cassius doesn’t have an elite basketball skill.***

    *No one at the 2020 Combine weighed more than 266. The only drafted Duke players heavier than him were Zion and Jahlil. In terms of weight, he edged out Martin Nessley and Mike Gminski, who were both taller and not known for their speed. In addition to losing 30 pounds (!), he needs to show he can actually play stretch 4, or at least a highly mobile 5.
    The mentions of his dad as an 8-season NFL offensive lineman Doesn’t help his cause.

    **not that Tre didn’t make some of them, and I have to think he can be as good an NBA player (or better) than his brother. Billy King, meanwhile, was an epically bad shooter (but great defender and dunker).

    ***Stanley’s 44” vertical was highest of the combine, but jumping isn’t a skill.

    Any of the 3 mighta gone in the 1st round if they’d led the team into a successful final four, but, given the reality, all were likely 2nd round risks when they decided to go pro.

    I have to think our rep for producing one and dones has led us to having the most undergrad 2nd round picks in the country over the past 4 years, which would contrast with the Grant Hill/Laettner years when we had the highest number of elite players stay to graduate.****

    ****in the spirit of the age, i made up both of those stats, but I’m keeping them since they support my narrative.
    Thanks for the suggestion that Tre Jones is a comparable shooter to a guy who made 48.6 percent of his foul shots as a senior. We need more levity in these trying times.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by AtlDuke72 View Post
    Biggest surprise to me was Anthony Edwards at #1. He shot 29% on 3s and 40% overall. Seems like he just disappeared in the bigger games at the end of the year. This was about the weakest draft ever if he is the best player.
    At least Edwards started games and was SEC Freshman of the year and second team SEC. Williams is likely a good player- but somebody saw something in him not based on his performances in games. I would also say the ACC was a bit down last year. But yes- this was a weak draft. The NBA is a different game- so it is not easy to know who will shine when under the bright lights.
    dukelifer

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by ChillinDuke View Post
    Cassius in particular is surprising to me that he went so low. I'd wager that if I went through old posts during the season that people around here were pointing to him as a potential lottery pick (or at least a first rounder). Not saying I agree with that, just wagering that Duke-blue posters were dramatically overselling him. That said, he didn't deserve to almost go undrafted. Surprising to me.
    I don't recall many (if any) people saying that about Cassius. I think the consensus was early-to-mid second round, possibly late first if he wowed somebody in the pre-draft workouts. I bet more people said he wasn't ready and should stay in school (despite his "advanced age") than said he would go in the lottery.

  17. #77
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    over the hill at age 21, Cassius? Hang in there...

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnb View Post
    ***Stanley’s 44” vertical was highest of the combine, but jumping isn’t a skill.
    In case anyone is wondering, Coach K definitely disagrees with this...

  19. #79

    Wait a minute!

    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    Thanks for the suggestion that Tre Jones is a comparable shooter to a guy who made 48.6 percent of his foul shots as a senior. We need more levity in these trying times.
    Don't you remember Tre's terrible free throw shooting against Carolina? Oh, wait a minute, that was on purpose... Never mind.

    PS. Billy King's free throw shooting wasn't that bad, at least compared to the 33.8% in Chris Burgess's freshman year.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by miramar View Post
    Don't you remember Tre's terrible free throw shooting against Carolina? Oh, wait a minute, that was on purpose... Never mind.

    PS. Billy King's free throw shooting wasn't that bad, at least compared to the 33.8% in Chris Burgess's freshman year.
    Being a better foul shooter than Chris Burgess is a pretty low bar.

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