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Thread: 2020 NBA Draft

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dukehk View Post
    If we're being brutally honest, its been a horrible draft for Duke players.

    Vernon Carey was supposed to be a lottery pick but I guess he failed to showcase an outside game which led to him plummeting into the 2nd round. Sometimes I just don't understand the NBA and its obsession with 3 point shooting big men.

    Tre and Cassius also failed to get picked in the first round but at least Tre ends up in an excellent organisation with the Spurs.

    Cassius I feel did well to land with an NBA team as he was not really on anybody's radar before he came to Duke. Nobody expected him to be a one and done.

    If the teams that selected Tre and Vernon actually spend time developing and allowing them to play, I think they will have two steals in this draft. Vernon especially can be a 20 and 10 guy in the right set up.
    I have two positive words for Duke players in the draft, especially Vernon: "Carlos" and "Boozer." Drafted in second round and played 13 years, starting 775 out of 861 games, averaging 31 MPG, 16 points and 9.5 rebounds. He was a "tough guy." Oh, and two NBA All-Star games, one year as third team All-NBA, and then there's that Olympic gold medal in 2008 (plus that discouraging bronze four years earlier.
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  2. #42

    Supposedly

    Quote Originally Posted by BigZ View Post
    So whatís the knock on Vernon? He was a top 5 pick before the season then had a great season and misses the first round.
    Some teams donít know if he has the mobility to switch and defend away from the basket, although he has lost a lot of weight so I wouldnít bet against him.

    Fran Frascilla was quoted in the Miami Herald a couple of days ago about the players the Heat could be considering with the 20th pick, and he said that Vernon was being overlooked and that he had a lot of long term potential. He thought that Vernon needed to bring more energy and absorb more contact on offense, but said thatís coachable. He also thought that Vernon could have used another year in college, which Iím sorry we wonít see.

    At any rate, the Heat took a guy from Memphis named Precious (hmmm, that name sounds familiar) whoís known for his athleticism so I guess they wanted a Bam Abedayo part II.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by UrinalCake View Post
    Just a weird[*] draft class for us. Tre, Vernon and Cassius did about as much as they possibly could in college in terms of showcasing their individual skills, yet they all hit a ceiling in how valuable they could be to the NBA.
    It's not just us. For example, Cassius Winston was a 2-time All-American and a Big 10 Player of the Year, arguably a better player than all three of our guys -- at least in college -- and he went #53.

    * And maybe it's not that weird. This was a weak draft class, and value was in the eye of the beholder. Not surprised that after the top-5 picks or so, it feels like names were jumbled up and drawn from a hat.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by miramar View Post
    Some teams donít know if he has the mobility to switch and defend away from the basket, although he has lost a lot of weight so I wouldnít bet against him.

    Fran Frascilla was quoted in the Miami Herald a couple of days ago about the players the Heat could be considering with the 20th pick, and he said that Vernon was being overlooked and that he had a lot of long term potential. He thought that Vernon needed to bring more energy and absorb more contact on offense, but said thatís coachable. He also thought that Vernon could have used another year in college, which Iím sorry we wonít see.

    At any rate, the Heat took a guy from Memphis named Precious (hmmm, that name sounds familiar) whoís known for his athleticism so I guess they wanted a Bam Abedayo part II.
    The big surprise for me was Patrick Williams at 4! What in the world? The guy scored 7 against Duke. He was last in voting for the ACC All Freshman team and got drafted 4! I guess he was good but I am not sure I remember him at all. Apparently he knows a lot about flowers.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by dukelifer View Post
    The big surprise for me was Patrick Williams at 4! What in the world? The guy scored 7 against Duke. He was last in voting for the ACC All Freshman team and got drafted 4! I guess he was good but I am not sure I remember him at all. Apparently he knows a lot about flowers.
    Yeah, I doubt his career will live up to his draft spot.

    Still, the ACC first-place team ended up with two lottery picks, the only lottery picks in the conference. I suppose that's apt.

  6. #46
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    North of Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by Troublemaker View Post
    It's not just us. For example, Cassius Winston was a 2-time All-American and a Big 10 Player of the Year, arguably a better player than all three of our guys -- at least in college -- and he went #53.

    * And maybe it's not that weird. This was a weak draft class, and value was in the eye of the beholder. Not surprised that after the top-5 picks or so, it feels like names were jumbled up and drawn from a hat.
    I'm not that old but I really miss the good old days when the guys getting drafted were the ones who consistently played well in college, rather than those who showed a glimmer of hope. And I also miss the time when a big man with good post moves was seen as an asset and not a liability. I despise the Celtics, but would a guy like Kevin McHale, who I thought was incredible to watch, even exist today? And when teams did not constantly give players stupid contracts then make seemingly horrible trades a year later to unload that contract because NBA roster construction is more about managing salaries than talent, but they don't realize this when giving out the stupid contracts, only when unloading them. This is why I don't follow the NBA very closely.

  7. #47
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    Lewisville, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Troublemaker View Post
    It's not just us. For example, Cassius Winston was a 2-time All-American and a Big 10 Player of the Year, arguably a better player than all three of our guys -- at least in college -- and he went #53.

    * And maybe it's not that weird. This was a weak draft class, and value was in the eye of the beholder. Not surprised that after the top-5 picks or so, it feels like names were jumbled up and drawn from a hat.
    Weak at the top, but deep?

    I've heard that opinion expressed by Jay Bilas and others. Second rounders may have a chance to make rosters, though I think the shortened pre-season makes that difficult.

  8. #48
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    New Bern, NC unless it's a home football game then I'm grilling on Devil's Alley
    Quote Originally Posted by UrinalCake View Post
    Just a weird draft class for us. Tre, Vernon and Cassius did about as much as they possibly could in college in terms of showcasing their individual skills, yet they all hit a ceiling in how valuable they could be to the NBA.
    I'd buy that for Tre more than Vernon and Cassius who were both in school for only one year. Sure, Vernon got some mega awards out of it, (Freshman of year, 1st team All ACC), but Stanley got squat, only making the all freshman team, not even getting honorable mention on the others.
    Speaking only of the freshmen, it was their choice to go, and hard to fault Vernon at least, but somebody made some serious misjudgment calls in telling them to take off and neither of them landing in the first round. Especially in Stanley's case.
    Q "Why do you like Duke, you didn't even go there." A "Because my art school didn't have a basketball team."

  9. #49
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    Feb 2008
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    New Bern, NC unless it's a home football game then I'm grilling on Devil's Alley
    Quote Originally Posted by dukelifer View Post
    The big surprise for me was Patrick Williams at 4! What in the world? The guy scored 7 against Duke. He was last in voting for the ACC All Freshman team and got drafted 4! I guess he was good but I am not sure I remember him at all. Apparently he knows a lot about flowers.
    Daniel Jones of the NBA?
    Q "Why do you like Duke, you didn't even go there." A "Because my art school didn't have a basketball team."

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Dukehk View Post
    If we're being brutally honest, its been a horrible draft for Duke players.

    Vernon Carey was supposed to be a lottery pick but I guess he failed to showcase an outside game which led to him plummeting into the 2nd round. Sometimes I just don't understand the NBA and its obsession with 3 point shooting big men.

    Tre and Cassius also failed to get picked in the first round but at least Tre ends up in an excellent organisation with the Spurs.

    Cassius I feel did well to land with an NBA team as he was not really on anybody's radar before he came to Duke. Nobody expected him to be a one and done.

    If the teams that selected Tre and Vernon actually spend time developing and allowing them to play, I think they will have two steals in this draft. Vernon especially can be a 20 and 10 guy in the right set up.
    The NBA is obsessed with 3 point shooting because of effective field goal percentage. Basically it boils down to 3 is more than 2. Big Jahlil Okafor could be a 20 and 10 guy too, the problem is that he also give up 30 and 15 to his opponent. You have to defend the more agile big man these days. I really like Jah and Vernon, but the NBA has really moved away from traditional post players. I hope they both have long careers.

    I have much higher expectations of Cassius. I see his floor as Gerald Green. Which isn't bad. If he can develop a more consistent jump shot and better handle, he could really good.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyNotCrazie View Post
    I'm not that old but I really miss the good old days when the guys getting drafted were the ones who consistently played well in college, rather than those who showed a glimmer of hope. And I also miss the time when a big man with good post moves was seen as an asset and not a liability. I despise the Celtics, but would a guy like Kevin McHale, who I thought was incredible to watch, even exist today?
    McHale could shoot, including from 3. He was a strong defender as well. He would be a wonderful 5 in todayís game.

    The pro and college games are different. Drafting primarily based on college performance is a good way to end up with a team full of guys who are best suited to be 8th or 9th guys in an NBA rotation.

    With that said, I think some teams may regret passing on Carey. Heís a better shooter than people think - the issue will be whether he can defend.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukelifer View Post
    The big surprise for me was Patrick Williams at 4! What in the world? The guy scored 7 against Duke. He was last in voting for the ACC All Freshman team and got drafted 4! I guess he was good but I am not sure I remember him at all. Apparently he knows a lot about flowers.
    Every year thereís at least one guy who comes out of nowhere and shoots up the draft boards. Usually itís a hyper-athletic guy from a small school or a bench guy at a bigger school. Marquese Chriss comes to mind, as well as another Williams - Robert - who played for Texas A&M and had that glorious dunk on the CHeats. The forward from Wake Forest who got drafted by the Heat might fall into this category too, although he had garnered some predraft buzz.

  13. #53
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    May 2010
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    New York, NY
    Cassius in particular is surprising to me that he went so low. I'd wager that if I went through old posts during the season that people around here were pointing to him as a potential lottery pick (or at least a first rounder). Not saying I agree with that, just wagering that Duke-blue posters were dramatically overselling him. That said, he didn't deserve to almost go undrafted. Surprising to me.

    I'm less surprised by Vernon and Tre. I would have thought they would have gone in the back of the first round. Tre maybe underperformed that a bit, but Vernon's draft slot was more or less in line. Neither of those guys was superlative at anything that the NBA covets.

    Agree with others, it was a very odd draft.

    - Chillin

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matches View Post
    McHale could shoot, including from 3. He was a strong defender as well. He would be a wonderful 5 in todayís game.

    The pro and college games are different. Drafting primarily based on college performance is a good way to end up with a team full of guys who are best suited to be 8th or 9th guys in an NBA rotation.

    With that said, I think some teams may regret passing on Carey. Heís a better shooter than people think - the issue will be whether he can defend.
    I am not a close follower of the NBA, so correct me if I am wrong, but quickness is what is valued most now. McHale was a good post defender, but I can't imagine him quickly switching off P&R at the top of the key - I don't recall him having fast feet, which is why I chose him as an example. And that is what everyone seems to want today.

    I agree that the college and pro games are different. And I wish they weren't. But I guess plenty of people disagree with me, which they are entitled to do.

  15. #55
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    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by nmduke2001 View Post
    The NBA is obsessed with 3 point shooting because of effective field goal percentage. Basically it boils down to 3 is more than 2. Big Jahlil Okafor could be a 20 and 10 guy too, the problem is that he also give up 30 and 15 to his opponent. You have to defend the more agile big man these days. I really like Jah and Vernon, but the NBA has really moved away from traditional post players. I hope they both have long careers.

    I have much higher expectations of Cassius. I see his floor as Gerald Green. Which isn't bad. If he can develop a more consistent jump shot and better handle, he could really good.
    This. And this is why Vernon slide in the NBA. Folks are glamourizing over his offensive output, but it's his defense that is a big unknown. Jah is an epic disaster on defense; a big man who can score but cannot defend is utterly useless in today's NBA.

    Look at Kanter, who was supposed to be the Celtics starting 5. He barely played in the playoffs.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by dukelifer View Post
    The big surprise for me was Patrick Williams at 4! What in the world? The guy scored 7 against Duke. He was last in voting for the ACC All Freshman team and got drafted 4! I guess he was good but I am not sure I remember him at all. Apparently he knows a lot about flowers.
    Biggest surprise to me was Anthony Edwards at #1. He shot 29% on 3s and 40% overall. Seems like he just disappeared in the bigger games at the end of the year. This was about the weakest draft ever if he is the best player.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtlDuke72 View Post
    Biggest surprise to me was Anthony Edwards at #1. He shot 29% on 3s and 40% overall. Seems like he just disappeared in the bigger games at the end of the year. This was about the weakest draft ever if he is the best player.
    Anthony Bennett says hi.

    Also, what is it with "Anthony" and 1st round draft picks? Davis, Bennett, and Edwards...
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by AtlDuke72 View Post
    Biggest surprise to me was Anthony Edwards at #1. He shot 29% on 3s and 40% overall. Seems like he just disappeared in the bigger games at the end of the year. This was about the weakest draft ever if he is the best player.
    Anthony Bennett says "hi". But to be fair, Giannis went 15th, Oladipo went 2nd and Gobert went 27th that year. Counterpoint, Otto Porter and Zeller went 3rd and 4th. Bleh. Just goes to show you that in a weak draft, it really doesn't matter where you pick.

    Looks like FlyingDutchDevil beat me to it.

  19. #59
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    Tre and Stanley should consider themselves lucky bc they are going to solid organizations who aren't in some form of rebuild.

    They will get decent contracts because neither of them are close to even being expected to start.

    Plus Tre and Stanley are going to teams with Duke ties which is pretty impressive.

    Great situations for them where they get to learn from playoff veterans.

    Wont be many games where they have to hang their heads at the end of the night.

    And Big Vern? Well that's interesting and crazily I think I see what MJ sees which absolutely horrifies me. But Vern just might be the next Brendan Haywood - who also just so happens to have also played for Charlotte. Haywood's improvement in the NBA was as palpable as is Goldwire's at Duke. And based on how Vern has transformed his body in the last 6 months, I can see some really good stuff happening for him bc of his interior development at Duke (bc we KNOW he can shoot).

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by bundabergdevil View Post
    I think if he gets in the right situation with the right coach and gets the 3+ years to mature out of the limelight and he is able to emotionally mature then he could be a good pro. Perennial all-star? I personally donít think so. They said the same about Lonzo and plenty of other next big things but thatís a hard mountain to climb.
    Rather than ďperennial All-StarĒ I should have said he could eventually achieve an All-Star level of play. Thatís more in line with what I meant.

    To be clear, Iím not a huge fan of the guy. Itís not like Iíve been breathlessly following his every move. I just think he has a skill set that could set him apart. And again, I predicated his potential rise to All Star level on him significantly improving his jumpshot and shot selection, and that could take several years or more.

    This is a long-term project. Thatís how it often goes these days when youíre drafting an18 or 19-year-old kid in the top 10. Most of the highest selections in the draft are players who are more about potential and upside than they are finished products. Some of them fulfill their potential, some of them donít. But eventual success is much more likely for those who have an exceptional set of skills, and Ball seems to have that.

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