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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven43 View Post
    Iím with you 100% on this. These contracts are completely insane, with the Paul George contract being Exhibit A.
    The amounts are insane, yes. But that means the revenue is insane too. Who else should the money go to?
       

  2. #182
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    The amounts are insane, yes. But that means the revenue is insane too. Who else should the money go to?
    Amounts are insane because an NBA roster is only 15 players vs any other professional sport where the roster goes into 20+. And of those 15 players, only <5 get paid insane money.

    The NBA is a league of stars because there are so few players, and stars will get paid.

    I do think the numbers are crazy and this warrants expansion, but owners would be against that as it will dilute their share of the pie.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    Amounts are insane because an NBA roster is only 15 players vs any other professional sport where the roster goes into 20+. And of those 15 players, only <5 get paid insane money.

    The NBA is a league of stars because there are so few players, and stars will get paid.

    I do think the numbers are crazy and this warrants expansion, but owners would be against that as it will dilute their share of the pie.
    The NBA made a conscious decision decades ago to market stars over teams. The NFL did the opposite. It took awhile, but NBA stars realized the hold the power as long as a CPA is in effect. The numbers we are seeing is the result of total revenue increasing from TV money. There is no guarantee that TV revenue increases especially with the head winds from China.

    Also to note, the headline figure is not necessary what the player takes home. Both Kyrie and Durant have incentive clauses that they will never meet. It allows them to make headlines but gives teams space for other players. Of course if total revenue goes up, so does their share.
    Last edited by Kdogg; 12-16-2020 at 09:39 AM.
       

  4. #184
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Outside Philly
    Quote Originally Posted by Kdogg View Post
    The NBA made a conscious decision decades ago to market stars over teams. The NFL did the opposite. It took awhile, but NBA stars realized the hold the power as long as a CPA is in effect. The numbers we are seeing is the result of total revenue increasing from TV money. There is no guarantee that TV revenue increases especially with the head winds from China.

    Also to note, the headline figure is not necessary what the player takes home. Both Kyrie and Durant have incentive clauses that they will never meet. It allows them to make headlines but gives teams space for other players. Of course if total revenue goes up, so does their share.
    It should also be noted that, relative to the value they generate for franchises and cities and companies, a few stars are still underpaid. Iíd have to dig up some of the stats but a guy like LBJ creates so much value for a franchise that the CBA still doesnít have upper limits that would enable him to reach his market price point.
       

  5. #185
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    North of Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by Kdogg View Post
    The NBA made a conscious decision decades ago to market stars over teams. The NFL did the opposite. It took awhile, but NBA stars realized the hold the power as long as a CPA is in effect. The numbers we are seeing is the result of total revenue increasing from TV money. There is no guarantee that TV revenue increases especially with the head winds from China.

    Also to note, the headline figure is not necessary what the player takes home. Both Kyrie and Durant have incentive clauses that they will never meet. It allows them to make headlines but gives teams space for other players. Of course if total revenue goes up, so does their share.
    I don't have a big issue with guys like Giannis getting these huge contracts. Because he puts backsides in seats (in non-covid times), gets people to turn on the TV, and sells merchandise. When Milwaukee is a road team, people show up specifically to see him.

    It is the second tier of guys getting the large contracts that I have an issue with, like Al Horford, where the second the contract is signed, anyone with any common sense realizes that the player was overpaid and this is going to ruin a team's salary cap in a few years. Then we get into endless conversations of matching up salaries for trades, expiring contracts, trading a player for pennies on the dollar in order to get rid of the contract, etc. which ruin basketball for me. If I recall, there has been some effort to curb this by limiting who can get the truly huge contracts, but even the next tier of contracts can become problematic.

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by bundabergdevil View Post
    It should also be noted that, relative to the value they generate for franchises and cities and companies, a few stars are still underpaid. Iíd have to dig up some of the stats but a guy like LBJ creates so much value for a franchise that the CBA still doesnít have upper limits that would enable him to reach his market price point.
    Lebron will have to muddle through. He will probably make more money after he stops playing basketball.
       

  7. #187
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyNotCrazie View Post
    It is the second tier of guys getting the large contracts that I have an issue with, like Al Horford, where the second the contract is signed, anyone with any common sense realizes that the player was overpaid and this is going to ruin a team's salary cap in a few years. Then we get into endless conversations of matching up salaries for trades, expiring contracts, trading a player for pennies on the dollar in order to get rid of the contract, etc. which ruin basketball for me. If I recall, there has been some effort to curb this by limiting who can get the truly huge contracts, but even the next tier of contracts can become problematic.
    ^^^^^ This ^^^^

    Every off season we see a couple deals where the moment it is signed, some folks say, "well, that was a franchise crippling mistake." Heck Charlotte has done it in back-to-back seasons with the Terry Rozier (3 years, $56 mil) and Gordon Hayward (4 year, $120 mil) contracts. I think Marcus Morris' 4 year, $64 mil deal with the Clippers may have been a mistake too, if not right away then as Morris gets older. He's already 31.

    But I don't see anyone saying the Freak deal is anything close to a mistake.

    By the way, as a result of the escalations in the Freak's contract, it gets to be really crazy in the final couple years.

    2020-21: $27.5M
    2021-22: $39.3M
    2022-23: $42.4M
    2023-24: $45.6M
    2024-25: $48.7M
    2025-26: $51.9M (option)

    -Jason "crazy to think he might turn down a $51.9 mil option... wow!" Evans

    P.S. - At least basketball is smart enough to limit the length of contracts to 4 years plus an option. In MLB, guys get signed to crippling deals that last 6, 8, 10, even 13 years
    I don't know what you are doing right now, but if you aren't listening to the DBR Podcast, you're doing it wrong.

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post

    -Jason "crazy to think he might turn down a $51.9 mil option... wow!" Evans
    Harden basically did when Houston tried to extend his contract. They wanted to give him an EXTRA $50 million / 1 year on top of his existing deal.

  9. #189
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    In MLB, guys get signed to crippling deals that last 6, 8, 10, even 13 years
    July 1, 2035.

  10. #190
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Quote Originally Posted by Phredd3 View Post
    July 1, 2035.
    Yeah, but $1.19 million seems almost quaint in terms of modern athlete salaries.

    -Jason "and it has been noted that Bobby Bonilla in only making 8% per year on the money that was owed to him... if he had taken the money and put it in the market, he'd be doing much better than the $1.19 mil per year that he currently earns" Evans
    I don't know what you are doing right now, but if you aren't listening to the DBR Podcast, you're doing it wrong.

  11. #191
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Yeah, but $1.19 million seems almost quaint in terms of modern athlete salaries.

    -Jason "and it has been noted that Bobby Bonilla in only making 8% per year on the money that was owed to him... if he had taken the money and put it in the market, he'd be doing much better than the $1.19 mil per year that he currently earns" Evans
    Not if you're 57 years old, which is how old Bonilla is today. He'll be 72 in 2035. Think of that $1.2M as a pension.

    Also, 8% is around the return of the markets over the last ~20 years (S&P 500 is around ~8.9%). It's comparable, but that Mets money is risk free vs the volatility of the markets.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  12. #192
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Yeah, but $1.19 million seems almost quaint in terms of modern athlete salaries.
    And that's the only reason I hesitated to bring it up. But it is still one of the weirdest sports contracts ever.

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