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Thread: RIP Joe Morgan

  1. #1

    RIP Joe Morgan

    This one hurts me.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Greenville, SC
    Good grief. Isn't enough enough?

    The heavenly class of 2020 is putting together a really strong baseball team and a darned good band.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by ClemmonsDevil View Post
    This one hurts me.
    You're not kidding. Was a fan from the time he joined the Astros until he retired.

    A powerful hitter in a small package, the Milwaukee Braves fiery manager Bobby Bragan once overturned a buffet table in the visiting clubhouse after a Braves loss to the Astros, yelling "You let yourself get beat by a Little Leaguer!"

    Sadly, Houston met him go in a trade, but Joe got to be on World Series champions and become MVP in 1975 and 1976.
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Chicago
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    You're not kidding. Was a fan from the time he joined the Astros until he retired.

    A powerful hitter in a small package, the Milwaukee Braves fiery manager Bobby Bragan once overturned a buffet table in the visiting clubhouse after a Braves loss to the Astros, yelling "You let yourself get beat by a Little Leaguer!"

    Sadly, Houston met him go in a trade, but Joe got to be on World Series champions and become MVP in 1975 and 1976.
    As a Cincinnati native and huge Big Red Machine fan, this one definitely hurts. Morgan's average WAR for the Reds over 1972-76 was 9.6, peaking at 11.0 in 1975. He was a truly great all-around player, winning 5 Gold Gloves in addition to being arguably offensive middle infielder of his generation. With all the talent those Reds teams had, it says something that Morgan was the biggest star of them all. A very intelligent and interesting guy, too.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Every couple of days it seems. Seaver. Brock. Gibson. Ford. Now Morgan.

    The first former Durham Bull to be inducted into the Baseball Hall of Fame.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Chicago
    Quote Originally Posted by luvdahops View Post
    As a Cincinnati native and huge Big Red Machine fan, this one definitely hurts. Morgan's average WAR for the Reds over 1972-76 was 9.6, peaking at 11.0 in 1975. He was a truly great all-around player, winning 5 Gold Gloves in addition to being arguably offensive middle infielder of his generation. With all the talent those Reds teams had, it says something that Morgan was the biggest star of them all. A very intelligent and interesting guy, too.
    ...arguably the best offensive middle infielder of his generation...

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by luvdahops View Post
    ...arguably the best offensive middle infielder of his generation...
    And a top 5 2nd baseman of all time.
    Last edited by ClemmonsDevil; 10-12-2020 at 11:11 AM. Reason: Erroneous term

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Winston’Salem
    The Big Red Machine was at its height just as I was starting to play Little League. I saw many a batter with a twitchy trail elbow at the plate. Only Willie Stargell’s “roundabout” routine was as iconic in the batter’s box during that era.

    Hate to hear this news. RIP, Joe.
    "Amazing what a minute can do."

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    North of Durham
    I was fortunate to catch the end of his playing career and appreciated him as a player. I greatly enjoyed Morgan's work with Jon Miller on ESPN - he clearly was a smart baseball mind but unlike so many announcers today, didn't beat you over the head with it or take himself too seriously. RIP.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    I left out Al Kaline.

    Morgan didn't get as much publicity as Pete Rose or Johnny Bench. But he was the heart-and-soul of the Big Red Machine.

    And like Lou Brock, he was part of an absolutely horrible trade. Why would an expansion team trade Joe Morgan, for crying out loud.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Winston Salem, NC
    Joe Morgan was one of the greats. I loved watching "The Big Red Machine" and Joe Morgan. He was a terrific announcer as well. 2020 might be the worst year of losing not only great players but great people as well. Just take a look at Jim's list of players.
    Prayers for the Morgan family.
    RIP Joe.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    St. Louis
    Quote Originally Posted by ClemmonsDevil View Post
    And a top 5 2nd baseman of all time.
    Bill James had him at the top of the list.

    Morgan was a favorite of mine, notwithstanding that he played for the Reds. I think he was under-appreciated when he was playing, because he didn't hit for a high average, but he did everything else well.

    RIP.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    I moved. Now 12 miles from Heaven, 13 from Hell
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    I left out Al Kaline.

    Morgan didn't get as much publicity as Pete Rose or Johnny Bench. But he was the heart-and-soul of the Big Red Machine.

    And like Lou Brock, he was part of an absolutely horrible trade. Why would an expansion team trade Joe Morgan, for crying out loud.
    At ten seasons in, I wouldn’t call the Astros an expansion team; their fraternal twin won the WS two seasons earlier.

    However, your main point of why ANY team would trade a 27 year old quality player like Morgan is questionable. I think it was the Astrodome effect; as probably the worst hitting environment in the league, the main hitting stats were suppressed, and the GMs at the time didn’t always see beyond those. Especially the Astros.

    Of course, Morgan went well above his previous performance (relative to the league and taking into account the ballpark effects) in the next six seasons in Cincy. Not sure anybody saw THAT happening. (Following a comment I made about Carlton/Wise,Houston did receive some value in the trade, but unlike Carlton/Wise, it looked lopsided from the start.)

    Paraphrasing Bill James, how such a great, intelligent, player could go on to become such a terrible announcer is beyond me.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Quote Originally Posted by DU82 View Post
    Paraphrasing Bill James, how such a great, intelligent, player could go on to become such a terrible announcer is beyond me.
    But he did inspire some of the best criticism of bad baseball journalism available on the internet, from some people who went on to be relatively well-known sitcom writers/creators to boot. Every 6 months or so I go on a kick and spend a half hour scouring the archives for old posts.
    Just be you. You is enough. - K, 4/5/10, 0:13.8 to play, 60-59 Duke.

    You're all jealous hypocrites. - Titus on Laettner

    You see those guys? Animals. They're animals. - SIU Coach Chris Lowery, on Duke

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    I left out Al Kaline.

    Morgan didn't get as much publicity as Pete Rose or Johnny Bench. But he was the heart-and-soul of the Big Red Machine.

    And like Lou Brock, he was part of an absolutely horrible trade. Why would an expansion team trade Joe Morgan, for crying out loud.
    The 'Stros got Lee May, a power hitter, who averaged 27 HRs for Houston and around 95 RBIs plus the well-thought of Tommy Helms, as the replacement for Little Joe at second base. Helms hung around for years but had no power and never got walked -- not an offensive force.

    The Reds were smarter than the Astros back then -- that's clear.
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    I moved. Now 12 miles from Heaven, 13 from Hell
    Quote Originally Posted by DU82 View Post
    At ten seasons in, I wouldn’t call the Astros an expansion team; their fraternal twin won the WS two seasons earlier.

    However, your main point of why ANY team would trade a 27 year old quality player like Morgan is questionable. I think it was the Astrodome effect; as probably the worst hitting environment in the league, the main hitting stats were suppressed, and the GMs at the time didn’t always see beyond those. Especially the Astros.

    Of course, Morgan went well above his previous performance (relative to the league and taking into account the ballpark effects) in the next six seasons in Cincy. Not sure anybody saw THAT happening. (Following a comment I made about Carlton/Wise,Houston did receive some value in the trade, but unlike Carlton/Wise, it looked lopsided from the start.)

    Paraphrasing Bill James, how such a great, intelligent, player could go on to become such a terrible announcer is beyond me.
    Just re-reading this. Jim, the questionable part I mentioned was the Astros trading Morgan, not your comment! (The engineer often needs somebody to translate his thoughts into English!)

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    The 'Stros got Lee May, a power hitter, who averaged 27 HRs for Houston and around 95 RBIs plus the well-thought of Tommy Helms, as the replacement for Little Joe at second base. Helms hung around for years but had no power and never got walked -- not an offensive force.

    The Reds were smarter than the Astros back then -- that's clear.
    Not as bad as Broglio for Brock. Then again nothing was as bad as Broglio for Brock. That's the fruitcake of baseball trades.

    And the Reds had Tony Perez at third just waiting to move to first, while Rose moved to third. Not like they lost anything. I never much rooted for the Big Red Machine but that doesn't mean I didn't respect that firepower. Perez, Morgan, Rose, Foster, Griffey, Bench. And has anyone ever had a better up-the-middle defense than Bench, Concepcion, Morgan and Geronimo?

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Winston Salem, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    Not as bad as Broglio for Brock. Then again nothing was as bad as Broglio for Brock. That's the fruitcake of baseball trades.

    And the Reds had Tony Perez at third just waiting to move to first, while Rose moved to third. Not like they lost anything. I never much rooted for the Big Red Machine but that doesn't mean I didn't respect that firepower. Perez, Morgan, Rose, Foster, Griffey, Bench. And has anyone ever had a better up-the-middle defense than Bench, Concepcion, Morgan and Geronimo?
    Maybe; Rizzuto(SS), Martin(2B), Mantle(CF) and Berra(C)? If not as good, it was in the ballpark.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Winston’Salem
    Quote Originally Posted by jv001 View Post
    Maybe; Rizzuto(SS), Martin(2B), Mantle(CF) and Berra(C)? If not as good, it was in the ballpark.
    Literally.
    "Amazing what a minute can do."

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