UAP & ET - Do you believe?

[MChambers]

Who knew Feynman and Jim Sumner shared the same viewpoint on Flying Saucers? Made my day.

Great minds think alike!

[DevilHorse]

Mystery stuff from space..
https://www.space.com/fireballs-fall-on-chile.html
Not meteors; not obviously space junk; miracle meat from the ISS canteen?

Larry
DevilHorse

[bundabergdevil]

In an upcoming book, a theoretical physicist from Harvard said we had a visitor in 2017.

In his upcoming book, Extraterrestrial: The First Sign of Intelligent Life Beyond Earth, theoretical physicist Avi Loeb lays out his theory about a peculiar-shaped object that entered our solar system several years ago.

The interstellar object—named "Oumuamua"—was first observed through the Pan-STARRS telescope at Hawaii's Haleakala Observatory in 2017. Researchers determined that it had passed through the ecliptic plane on Sept. 6 from the direction of Vega, a star in the Lyra constellation that is about 25 light-years away from our planet. Just three days after later, Oumuamua—Hawaiian for "scout"—began accelerating toward the sun, before it eventually came closer to Earth on Oct. 7, "moving swiftly toward the constellation Pegasus and the blackness beyond," according to Loeb.

Some scientists claim Oumuamua, which is believed to be the first interstellar object detected in our solar system, was simply another comet; however Loeb—the chairman of Harvard University's astronomy department—dismisses that assumption, as it relies too much on the "familiar."

"What would happen if a caveman saw a cellphone?" he wondered while talking to the New York Post. "He’s seen rocks all his life, and he would have thought it was just a shiny rock."

Loeb says there are two big details that suggest Oumuamua wasn't just a comet, but rather a piece of alien technology. The first detail is the object's dimensions, as it was determined to be "five to 10 times longer than it was wide." Loeb argues the cigar-like shape isn't typical for a natural space object.

[DevilHorse]

In an upcoming book, a theoretical physicist from Harvard said we had a visitor in 2017.

In his upcoming book, Extraterrestrial: The First Sign of Intelligent Life Beyond Earth, theoretical physicist Avi Loeb lays out his theory about a peculiar-shaped object that entered our solar system several years ago.

The interstellar object—named "Oumuamua"—was first observed through the Pan-STARRS telescope at Hawaii's Haleakala Observatory in 2017. Researchers determined that it had passed through the ecliptic plane on Sept. 6 from the direction of Vega, a star in the Lyra constellation that is about 25 light-years away from our planet. Just three days after later, Oumuamua—Hawaiian for "scout"—began accelerating toward the sun, before it eventually came closer to Earth on Oct. 7, "moving swiftly toward the constellation Pegasus and the blackness beyond," according to Loeb.

Some scientists claim Oumuamua, which is believed to be the first interstellar object detected in our solar system, was simply another comet; however Loeb—the chairman of Harvard University's astronomy department—dismisses that assumption, as it relies too much on the "familiar."

"What would happen if a caveman saw a cellphone?" he wondered while talking to the New York Post. "He’s seen rocks all his life, and he would have thought it was just a shiny rock."

Loeb says there are two big details that suggest Oumuamua wasn't just a comet, but rather a piece of alien technology. The first detail is the object's dimensions, as it was determined to be "five to 10 times longer than it was wide." Loeb argues the cigar-like shape isn't typical for a natural space object.

I remember when Oumuamua was first detected. Apparently, whatever it is (rock or alien technology) it is just passing through.

Although arguably the first "detected" thing from outside of our solar system, if you take the cosmologist's theory of heavy elements to be true, most of the atoms in our Solar System that are not Hydrogen, Helium, and Lithium come from exploded stars, which are definitely outside our Solar System. And we certainly detect those elements everywhere, including earth. "We are star stuff."

Larry
DevilHorse

[bundabergdevil]

I remember when Oumuamua was first detected. Apparently, whatever it is (rock or alien technology) it is just passing through.

Although arguably the first "detected" thing from outside of our solar system, if you take the cosmologist's theory of heavy elements to be true, most of the atoms in our Solar System that are not Hydrogen, Helium, and Lithium come from exploded stars, which are definitely outside our Solar System. And we certainly detect those elements everywhere, including earth. "We are star stuff."

Larry
DevilHorse

When I go on my space vacation, DH, I’m coming to DBR to post pictures just for you! So make sure you stick around a few more decades.

[DevilHorse]

When I go on my space vacation, DH, I’m coming to DBR to post pictures just for you! So make sure you stick around a few more decades.

Where do I sign?

Larry
DevilHorse

[whereinthehellami]

I believe this is the idea behind Neal Stephenson's "Anathem". (Not sure I can recommend the book: it's very long and takes forever for the plot to actually kick in, and in the meantime, you're scratching your head wondering why he's writing about a world so similar to ours where it seems he's just, unoriginally, changed a few names/words here and there...e.g., cellphones are called "jeejahs" in his world, etc.)

Thanks for the heads up I'll have to look into Anathem.

Mystery stuff from space..
https://www.space.com/fireballs-fall-on-chile.html
Not meteors; not obviously space junk; miracle meat from the ISS canteen?

Larry
DevilHorse

Interesting, I wonder what the follow-up will reveal.

In an upcoming book, a theoretical physicist from Harvard said we had a visitor in 2017.

In his upcoming book, Extraterrestrial: The First Sign of Intelligent Life Beyond Earth, theoretical physicist Avi Loeb lays out his theory about a peculiar-shaped object that entered our solar system several years ago.

The interstellar object—named "Oumuamua"—was first observed through the Pan-STARRS telescope at Hawaii's Haleakala Observatory in 2017. Researchers determined that it had passed through the ecliptic plane on Sept. 6 from the direction of Vega, a star in the Lyra constellation that is about 25 light-years away from our planet. Just three days after later, Oumuamua—Hawaiian for "scout"—began accelerating toward the sun, before it eventually came closer to Earth on Oct. 7, "moving swiftly toward the constellation Pegasus and the blackness beyond," according to Loeb.

Some scientists claim Oumuamua, which is believed to be the first interstellar object detected in our solar system, was simply another comet; however Loeb—the chairman of Harvard University's astronomy department—dismisses that assumption, as it relies too much on the "familiar."

"What would happen if a caveman saw a cellphone?" he wondered while talking to the New York Post. "He’s seen rocks all his life, and he would have thought it was just a shiny rock."

Loeb says there are two big details that suggest Oumuamua wasn't just a comet, but rather a piece of alien technology. The first detail is the object's dimensions, as it was determined to be "five to 10 times longer than it was wide." Loeb argues the cigar-like shape isn't typical for a natural space object.

I think the movement peculiarities that Loeb talked about are interesting.

"The excess push away from the sun, that was the thing that broke the camel’s back," he said.

Loeb explains that the sun's gravitational force would cause a natural object to move faster as it approaches, and eventually push the object back, causing it to move slower as it moves away. Loeb points out that this didn't occur with Oumuamua, which accelerated "slightly, but to a highly statistically significant extent" as it moved further and further away.

---

I have been hearing a lot recently about the Zimbabwe UFO & alien sighting in 1994, which was interesting in that 62 children saw and reported a UFO, alien, and some believed that they were contacted telepathically by the alien. And AFAIK every interview/scientist that has interviewed these kids from 1994-current believe them to be telling the truth. At the request of Dr. Mack, the students drew images of their experiences with the alien and they were striking in their similarities. A lot of the students believed the alien telepathically communicated with them when they looked into their eyes. The message that they received was that humanity’s current technological path was causing great harm to the earth and to humanity's future. This was covered in the recent Phenomenon documentary by James Fox.

James Fox in his podcast with Joe Rogan talks about how he sat on the Zimbabwe case for about 10 years despite getting a tip from Steven Spielberg because it sounded so unbelievable. And after interviewing students, teachers, and interviewers about this event, Fox now believes it incredible that it has gone relatively unknown. Think about it, if 62 kids believed it in 1994, still believe it in 2020, and everyone who has talked with them believe it, what would it take for the world to believe it? And don’t forget the Westall School sighting in Melbourne, Australia, where over 200 students and teachers saw a UFO land on school grounds. Same deal, students and teachers saw UFO, they all stick with the same story for 55 years, everyone who has interviewed the students and teachers believe them, yet still nothing? Here is more on the Zimbabwe UFO & alien sighting from the News24.com article from 2008.

At the Ariel School in Ruwa, Zimbabwe, in 1994, 62 children aged between eight and 12 reported seeing a UFO and strange beings during their morning break.

Those children are now young adults scattered around the globe. American film maker Randall Nickerson is tracking them down and interviewing them about the experience. Their stories have not changed at all, he says. Not what you would expect if they had made it all up.

So, what exactly happened on that day in 1994 at the school in Ruwa just east of Harare? It was morning break and they were out in the school yard playing, says Nickerson. They saw one main silver craft that had four others around it, says Nickerson. It came down on a hill beyond the school yard that was out of bounds. The boundary was the edge of the school yard, then it was bush and the hill.

They ran to the edge of the school yard to see what this thing was. They saw this small creature walk around on top of the craft while another came down to check out the children. He was all in black, with a very tight suit. The children said he had big eyes like rugby balls.

The children had direct eye contact with this creature. There seems to have been some kind of communication with the children about the state of the world what we are doing to the planet, the destruction we are causing, although not all the children got this message. Some of the children were traumatized, others were excited. The young children were the most traumatized as they were at the front of the group.

They all went screaming back to the teachers. The teachers didn’t believe them at first. But then they went home and told their parents who came to the school and wanted to know what had happened. Soon afterwards the children were asked to draw pictures of what they had seen. They did this separately. The drawings were all the same.

A BBC television crew were first on the scene to follow it up. In November 1994, Harvard professor of psychiatry John E. Mack visited the school and filmed interviews with the children. He was assisted by South African producer Nicky Carter who had already made a short documentary on the subject for the SABC. I had a half-brother at the school, she says. He was off sick on the day it happened, but the children told him all about it and he contacted me.

Carter has no doubt the children were telling the truth. When they were interviewed by Mack with all his professional skills it was clear they were telling the truth their voice tone, their body language. They were so consistent, they told their stories with such conviction. And they spoke about it in their own language. One child recalled being told by the alien that we should not be so ‘techknowledged’ - why make up something like that?

Nickerson sees himself as taking that inquiry further after being commissioned by the John E. Mack Institute, along with producer Dominique Callimanopulos, to make a documentary incorporating the interview footage shot in 1994 with follow-up material shot in the present.

I want to present the story objectively, says Nickerson. To show the original raw material. That’s what initially interested me about this case. These children all describing seeing the same thing. You can tell they are not lying. But having seen this footage I thought: I need to go to this place, to talk to people, I need to investigate it for myself. Did this really happen?

The subject has to be approached as scientifically as possible, he says. There are questions that we need to ask. It’s a case of presenting the evidence just like court.

Despite this rigorous approach, isn’t there a danger he will simply encounter those on the lunatic fringe? I have found those are the people who have all the answers, but people to whom something like this has really happened don’t. They have millions of questions. There is a humility about them, they realize its not about them.

At the beginning of the project Nickerson set about contacting those people who had been among the 62 children who had witnessed the sighting. They are mainly students in Canada, the United States, New Zealand and Britain.

Tracking them down hasn’t been that difficult. They are contacting us because of what we put up on the John E. Mack Institute website. What is interesting is that their stories remain the same as in 1994.

They were affected profoundly, says Nickerson. At the time one girl was told by her parents not to talk about it, that she had imagined it all. But then she found other people’s stories on the Internet. She got in touch with them and realized Oh my God, that was real.

Others I’ve met never doubted it. They say the experience opened up new horizons for them.

Nickerson cites two students who are now studying in the U.S. Their father said they would never have done that, but after their experience the children were totally changed, that’s what convinced him that something really happened.

Nickerson’s first stop during his visit to southern Africa was Ariel School. I interviewed teachers and workers who were there at the time. He also came across people from two different schools in the area who had similar sightings on the same day.

Per the Mail & Guardian article, there were a lot of UFO & alien sightings around the Ariel School at the time:

“Wednesday, 14th September, 1994, was an exciting night for Southern Africa. Round about 20:50 to 21:05 hours, a pyrotechnic display of some magnificence appeared in the almost clear night skies of this part of the continent.”

Astronomers across the region soon reported that the “pyrotechnic display”, seen as far afield as Zambia and Botswana, had been a meteor shower. Hind, though, recorded receiving dozens of reports of a capsule-like fireball, trailing fire and flanked by two smaller capsules.

She also received several reports of alien sightings around the same time: a young boy and his mother reported a daylight sighting; a trucker who had seen strange beings on the road at night. And then, on September 16, Hind received the report from Ariel School, which she records as Case 96, and describes as “one of the most exciting UFO stories of this or any year”.

In this article one of the children from the Ariel School case talks about how she can sense when the alien are back in our atmosphere. This ability seems to be common among contactees and abductees.

[DevilHorse]

Thanks for the heads up I'll have to look into Anathem.

In this article one of the children from the Ariel School case talks about how she can sense when the alien are back in our atmosphere. This ability seems to be common among contactees and abductees.

Huh? And how does she/they confirm/know that the aliens actually are back in our atmosphere? I guess the contactees all have a simultaneous sensation that they associate with the aliens?

Interesting.

Larry
DevilHorse

[Acymetric]

FWIW, the "mundane" explanation for the acceleration of Omuamua has something to do with off gassing due to proximity to the sun. I don't know enough about anything to say how viable that explanation is.

I'll also say that I apparently thought our ability to look closely at stuff that was really far away was a lot better than it actually was (after looking at the "images" we were able to get of the object). I guess it is sort of like the CSI effect, but for space.

[CameronBornAndBred]

FWIW, the "mundane" explanation for the acceleration of Omuamua has something to do with off gassing due to proximity to the sun. I don't know enough about anything to say how viable that explanation is.

I'll also say that I apparently thought our ability to look closely at stuff that was really far away was a lot better than it actually was (after looking at the "images" we were able to get of the object). I guess it is sort of like the CSI effect, but for space.

Maybe we did see it clearly, and chose to share only the fuzzy pics.

[-jk]

Maybe we did see it clearly, and chose to share only the fuzzy pics.

I hear the local landing pad is in Area 51. That's where the tender landed.

-jk

[DevilHorse]

FWIW, the "mundane" explanation for the acceleration of Omuamua has something to do with off gassing due to proximity to the sun. I don't know enough about anything to say how viable that explanation is.

I'll also say that I apparently thought our ability to look closely at stuff that was really far away was a lot better than it actually was (after looking at the "images" we were able to get of the object). I guess it is sort of like the CSI effect, but for space.

Gravity pulls things toward each other (Oumuamua toward the sun).
"off-gassing" or "out gassing" is when atoms adhere to/in surfaces and are slowly released over time. (Try getting a real vacuum on a copper pipe much below 1/1000 of 1 atmosphere, it is tough because the copper has "atoms/air/dust" stuck in it). The process of out gassing is enhanced when the surface is heated (like when exposed to the sun, or a surface gets closer to the sun). So if the object's face heats up, that side of it will "out gas" more than the cold side; if there is a source of particles, this can cause a net momentum away from the sun. That would be the theory. (I think it would take a huge amount of out gassing to affect an orbit, but that is the basis for jet propulsion isn't it - gas release).

Oumuamua has a strange color, so they don't know what it is made of (really), and it is moving quickly, orthoganol to the ecliptic, and I'd assume in a hyperbolic orbit (not elliptical like the planets or a comet). Oumuamua will not be captured by the sun and will not be a denizen of our solar system. So what out gassing properties it has is purely sourced in speculation. It is tumbling, not a likely configuration for a spaceship unless it is purely a propeller (hmm, creating an artificial gravity inside for its inhabitants.. yah, that's the ticket).

Larry
DevilHorse

[rsvman]

Feynman was definitely a genius, and I am in general agreement with him about "flying saucers," but I have personal experience with ESP enough to make me know for a fact that it is real, and I don't care if it's Feynman or Einstein or anybody else who tells me otherwise.

I suspect the same thing is true when it comes to UFOs/flying saucers. If you saw one with your own eyes and the sighting was impressive enough to you that you were sure it wasn't just a man-made object or a natural phenomenon, it wouldn't matter to you whether Feynman believes in them or not. Or whether he thinks you are an idiot or not.

Therein lies the entire problem with this topic in general. People who have personal experience believe, and those who do not have personal experience do not believe, and "science" per se doesn't enter into it for the person with experience.



By the way, before somebody points it out to me, I know that I posted earlier in this thread about having seen a "UFO," and I stand by the story, but I did not know then and do not know now that it wasn't some kind of natural phenomenon or some kind of man-made object of some kind. So I am not a believer in flying saucers, because my own experience wasn't convincing enough for me. By way of contrast I do have evidence of ESP that I find completely convincing. I think it is difficult to study it scientifically, but I know it exists.

[whereinthehellami]

Feynman was definitely a genius, and I am in general agreement with him about "flying saucers," but I have personal experience with ESP enough to make me know for a fact that it is real, and I don't care if it's Feynman or Einstein or anybody else who tells me otherwise.

I suspect the same thing is true when it comes to UFOs/flying saucers. If you saw one with your own eyes and the sighting was impressive enough to you that you were sure it wasn't just a man-made object or a natural phenomenon, it wouldn't matter to you whether Feynman believes in them or not. Or whether he thinks you are an idiot or not.

Therein lies the entire problem with this topic in general. People who have personal experience believe, and those who do not have personal experience do not believe, and "science" per se doesn't enter into it for the person with experience.



By the way, before somebody points it out to me, I know that I posted earlier in this thread about having seen a "UFO," and I stand by the story, but I did not know then and do not know now that it wasn't some kind of natural phenomenon or some kind of man-made object of some kind. So I am not a believer in flying saucers, because my own experience wasn't convincing enough for me. By way of contrast I do have evidence of ESP that I find completely convincing. I think it is difficult to study it scientifically, but I know it exists.

I would be very interested in hearing more about you ESP experience. Like a lot of these paranormal phenomenon, there is definitely something going on that we don't understand. As far as ESP goes I know the government has put a lot into studying ESP and trying to use it for remote viewing purposes. And that is just what we know about, I would imagine there is a lot going on behind the scenes.

[bundabergdevil]

Answers coming? Apparently US intelligence agencies must share what they know about UFOs. It was a stipulation tucked away in a recent bill signed into law.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/10/us/uf...rnd/index.html

[rsvman]

Answers coming? Apparently US intelligence agencies must share what they know about UFOs. It was a stipulation tucked away in a recent bill signed into law.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/10/us/ufo-report-emergency-relief-bill-trnd/index.html

I saw that in my snoozefeed this morning and found it interesting. They have to share with whom? They will provide the info to the press? It wasnt clear to me exactly what was meant by having to reveal or share the information.

[bundabergdevil]

I saw that in my snoozefeed this morning and found it interesting. They have to share with whom? They will provide the info to the press? It wasnt clear to me exactly what was meant by having to reveal or share the information.

I assumed they’d just post the info in this thread...or give it to congress. One of those two.

[rsvman]

I assumed they’d just post the info in this thread...or give it to congress. One of those two.

Ha! I hope they report it straight to whereinthehellami so he can tell us what’s what. Don’t know that I trust Congress to give us the straight dope, as they say.

[MChambers]

I saw that in my snoozefeed this morning and found it interesting. They have to share with whom? They will provide the info to the press? It wasnt clear to me exactly what was meant by having to reveal or share the information.

From the article linked by Budwom:

The director of National Intelligence and the secretary of defense have a little less than six months now to provide the congressional intelligence and armed services committees with an unclassified report about "unidentified aerial phenomena."

[-jk]

From the article linked by Budwom:

The director of National Intelligence and the secretary of defense have a little less than six months now to provide the congressional intelligence and armed services committees with an unclassified report about "unidentified aerial phenomena."

Hmm, "unclassified report", so shareable!

Unless they get hit with a standard issue neuralyzer first.

-jk