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  1. #381
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Washington, DC area
    Quote Originally Posted by MChambers View Post
    As someone who has lived in DC for many years, let me advise you never to read the comments to Post articles.
    Except the capital weather gang. Their comments are civil. So long as they’re not talking global warming, anyway.

    -jk

  2. #382
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Wherever the wind blows and the leaves dance.
    We are truly in unprecedented times. Elizondo, Mellow, Fravor, Reid, Graves, and Cahill will forever be some of the names associated with forcing this disclosure. Disclosure has started before but was soon controlled by the government, pentagon, and main stream media. By using social media brilliantly, the names above have created a situation where the pentagon, government, and main stream media can no longer control the narrative. The tooth paste cannot be put back into the tube so to speak.

    It might not be with the upcoming report as there is a very real resistance within our government, pentagon, and main stream media towards a reality that does not conform to their religious beliefs. There is a lot of concern about how much to disclose and what is the best timing. The consensus seems to be for a slow rolling disclosure. A trickle of evidence and new names to the list of reputable disclosurists (new word).

    IMO, the phenomenon that is being disclosed is more than UFOs, contacts, and other paranormal events. It is not as simple as a UFO coming from Proxima Centauri, it is about a phenomenon that can manipulate our perceptions and our limited understanding of our consciousness. It all seems to be related.

    Disclosure and understanding the phenomenon are two different issues. How is science going to study something that has been interacting with humanity since we have been able to record events and always remained just out of our reach? Why the change now? Social media and technology are probably two of the main reasons. Full disclosure of the phenomenon needs to happen before there can be any chance of understanding it.

    I think we are at a milestone moment for humanity. Who follows in the footsteps of Galileo and looks through the telescope and who refuses to look though the telescope out of fear? I think it is also time to look back at past UFO events with the understanding that the government, pentagon, and main steam media were being dishonest. Knowing what we know now let us reevaluate these events and publicly right those who were wronged by coming forward through the years.

  3. #383
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by whereinthehellami View Post
    We are truly in unprecedented times. Elizondo, Mellow, Fravor, Reid, Graves, and Cahill will forever be some of the names associated with forcing this disclosure. Disclosure has started before but was soon controlled by the government, pentagon, and main stream media. By using social media brilliantly, the names above have created a situation where the pentagon, government, and main stream media can no longer control the narrative. The tooth paste cannot be put back into the tube so to speak.

    It might not be with the upcoming report as there is a very real resistance within our government, pentagon, and main stream media towards a reality that does not conform to their religious beliefs. There is a lot of concern about how much to disclose and what is the best timing. The consensus seems to be for a slow rolling disclosure. A trickle of evidence and new names to the list of reputable disclosurists (new word).

    IMO, the phenomenon that is being disclosed is more than UFOs, contacts, and other paranormal events. It is not as simple as a UFO coming from Proxima Centauri, it is about a phenomenon that can manipulate our perceptions and our limited understanding of our consciousness. It all seems to be related.

    Disclosure and understanding the phenomenon are two different issues. How is science going to study something that has been interacting with humanity since we have been able to record events and always remained just out of our reach? Why the change now? Social media and technology are probably two of the main reasons. Full disclosure of the phenomenon needs to happen before there can be any chance of understanding it.

    I think we are at a milestone moment for humanity. Who follows in the footsteps of Galileo and looks through the telescope and who refuses to look though the telescope out of fear? I think it is also time to look back at past UFO events with the understanding that the government, pentagon, and main steam media were being dishonest. Knowing what we know now let us reevaluate these events and publicly right those who were wronged by coming forward through the years.
    You realize you have set up a scenario in which you can never be wrong. Any report that doesn't conform to this viewpoint can and will be dismissed as part of the on-going coverup by the government, the Pentagon and the main-stream media.

  4. #384
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Wherever the wind blows and the leaves dance.
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    You realize you have set up a scenario in which you can never be wrong. Any report that doesn't conform to this viewpoint can and will be dismissed as part of the on-going coverup by the government, the Pentagon and the main-stream media.
    It is not about me being right or wrong. This scenario is what it is. The evidence and testimony is out there. The corroboration is there. The phenomenon is happening and has been happening for a long time. It has been acknowledged by the government, pentagon, and main stream media and is unfortunately being disclosed in a controlled manner. I think the difficulty for a lot of people is that they rely on main stream media for their information. I would think that most people would agree that the MSM is a mess of controlled narratives and has been that way for a long time. People like Elizondo, Mellon, Fravor, Graves, and Cahill are doing long format interviews where they are addressing the phenomenon with details that would be hard for a conspiracist to ignore. MSM is covering this phenomenon with 5 minute segments versus a two hour podcast.

    I would argue that we are no longer at the point, with the evidence and testimony that is out there, where the conspiracist is the UAP person but instead is the skeptic who doesn't pursue the evidence and testimony.

  5. #385
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by whereinthehellami View Post
    It is not about me being right or wrong. This scenario is what it is. The evidence and testimony is out there. The corroboration is there. The phenomenon is happening and has been happening for a long time. It has been acknowledged by the government, pentagon, and main stream media and is unfortunately being disclosed in a controlled manner. I think the difficulty for a lot of people is that they rely on main stream media for their information. I would think that most people would agree that the MSM is a mess of controlled narratives and has been that way for a long time. People like Elizondo, Mellon, Fravor, Graves, and Cahill are doing long format interviews where they are addressing the phenomenon with details that would be hard for a conspiracist to ignore. MSM is covering this phenomenon with 5 minute segments versus a two hour podcast.

    I would argue that we are no longer at the point, with the evidence and testimony that is out there, where the conspiracist is the UAP person but instead is the skeptic who doesn't pursue the evidence and testimony.
    I think the part of your boldface statement that says "most people agree" is utter poppycock. Even using the term, "mainstream media," means falling into an Orwellian trap. And "a mess of controlled narratives?" If you truly believe that, you might give one or two obvious examples.

    The folks that work at the large news organizations are highly educated and dedicated to their work. Those from J-schools have taken extensive courses in ethics. The two documented cases of reporters making stuff up -- the DC sniper story in the NYT and the Janet Cook fake reporting for the WaPo -- led to insurrections at the papers and the dismissal of senior editors for failing to do their jobs.

    On your major point -- "the U.S. government has been hiding stuff" -- I might offer a more benign interpretation. "We have no idea what these phenomena are, and we don't want to publicize them so that our senior leadership doesn't spend all their time answering questions." (Or, "not answering questions," since we are truly in the dark.)

    Anyway, I appreciate your fervor and frustration -- and I should be using some emojis to soften my comments.
    Last edited by sagegrouse; 06-08-2021 at 12:09 PM. Reason: Added last point
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  6. #386
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    I think the part of your boldface statement that says "most people agree" is utter poppycock. Even using the term, "mainstream media," means falling into an Orwellian trap. And "a mess of controlled narratives?" If you truly believe that, you might give one or two obvious examples.

    The folks that work at the large news organizations are highly educated and dedicated to their work. Those from J-schools have taken extensive courses in ethics. The two documented cases of reporters making stuff up -- the DC sniper story in the NYT and the Janet Cook fake reporting for the WaPo -- led to insurrections at the papers and the dismissal of senior editors for failing to do their jobs.

    On your major point -- "the U.S. government has been hiding stuff" -- I might offer a more benign interpretation. "We have no idea what these phenomena are, and we don't want to publicize them so that our senior leadership doesn't spend all their time answering questions." (Or, "not answering questions," since we are truly in the dark.)
    Sporks. Very eloquent distillation of how I view the media and these phenomena.

  7. #387
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    New Bern, NC unless it's a home football game then I'm grilling on Devil's Alley
    I like the old title better.
    Q "Why do you like Duke, you didn't even go there." A "Because my art school didn't have a basketball team."

  8. #388
    We all have our biases. Sometimes it is difficult to process situations where we have not been given all of the information. Sometimes our own prejudices prevent us from seeing the obvious.

    Jumping to fantastic conclusions is not the solution. The simplest answer is often the correct answer.

    I do think, in this case, the media is responsible for creating the environment of "UFO conspiracy." There is absolutely no need for these institutions to be interviewing quacks, and then interlacing their opinions with those who are actually informed. I understand this is done for clicks, but it only creates confusion, and gives credibility to people who do not deserve it.

    Take five minutes. Open a text editor and paste the articles. Now delete the paragraphs that mention extraterrestrial or UFO and re-read them. It is clear what we are dealing with. Perhaps the most telling sentence, from the Post article:

    "Some of the UAPs lack telltale signs of terrestrial construction such as rivets and bolts and appear smooth and rounded." (emphasis: mine)

    What does that mean about the rest of the UAP's?

  9. #389
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by whereinthehellami View Post
    It is not about me being right or wrong. This scenario is what it is. The evidence and testimony is out there. The corroboration is there. The phenomenon is happening and has been happening for a long time. It has been acknowledged by the government, pentagon, and main stream media and is unfortunately being disclosed in a controlled manner. I think the difficulty for a lot of people is that they rely on main stream media for their information. I would think that most people would agree that the MSM is a mess of controlled narratives and has been that way for a long time. People like Elizondo, Mellon, Fravor, Graves, and Cahill are doing long format interviews where they are addressing the phenomenon with details that would be hard for a conspiracist to ignore. MSM is covering this phenomenon with 5 minute segments versus a two hour podcast.

    I would argue that we are no longer at the point, with the evidence and testimony that is out there, where the conspiracist is the UAP person but instead is the skeptic who doesn't pursue the evidence and testimony.
    I'm confused. Is the main-stream media acknowledging the phenomenon, controlling it or hiding it?

  10. #390
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Dur'm
    Quote Originally Posted by whereinthehellami View Post
    It is not about me being right or wrong. This scenario is what it is. The evidence and testimony is out there. The corroboration is there. The phenomenon is happening and has been happening for a long time. It has been acknowledged by the government, pentagon, and main stream media and is unfortunately being disclosed in a controlled manner. I think the difficulty for a lot of people is that they rely on main stream media for their information. I would think that most people would agree that the MSM is a mess of controlled narratives and has been that way for a long time. People like Elizondo, Mellon, Fravor, Graves, and Cahill are doing long format interviews where they are addressing the phenomenon with details that would be hard for a conspiracist to ignore. MSM is covering this phenomenon with 5 minute segments versus a two hour podcast.

    I would argue that we are no longer at the point, with the evidence and testimony that is out there, where the conspiracist is the UAP person but instead is the skeptic who doesn't pursue the evidence and testimony.
    I echo Sage's comments on the media portion, but I further take issue with this conclusion. A skeptic is almost never a conspiracy theorist. Skeptical examination of conspiracy theories almost always turn out bad for the conspiracy, right up to and including the assertion above about "main stream media", which is, in effect, itself a conspiracy theory. Subjected to scrutiny, I agree with Sage that it does not hold up.

    We all get that you are all-in on the whole UFO thing. You are free to be convinced by your own arguments. That doesn't mean that anyone's disagreement with some, most, or all of your conclusions is in any way rooted in anything resembling a conspiracy theory, and I don't think anything in this thread even remotely suggests otherwise.

  11. #391
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    New Bern, NC unless it's a home football game then I'm grilling on Devil's Alley
    Quote Originally Posted by jdk View Post
    What does that mean about the rest of the UAP's?
    Means that Mars has better engineers than Venus.
    Q "Why do you like Duke, you didn't even go there." A "Because my art school didn't have a basketball team."

  12. #392
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Atlanta 'burbs
    Quote Originally Posted by whereinthehellami View Post
    ...
    IMO, the phenomenon that is being disclosed is more than UFOs, contacts, and other paranormal events. It is not as simple as a UFO coming from Proxima Centauri, it is about a phenomenon that can manipulate our perceptions and our limited understanding of our consciousness. It all seems to be related.

    ...
    I’ve said before that Men in Black was a documentary. The Nurolizer is real!!! 😉

  13. #393
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    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by CameronBornAndBred View Post
    Means that Mars has better engineers than Venus.
    But Mars needs women.

  14. #394
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Chesapeake, VA.
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    But Mars needs women.
    No, Mars Needs Guitars.




    (Major props to anybody who recognizes a this rather obscure and old pop-culture reference... without googling!)
    Last edited by -jk; 06-09-2021 at 07:12 AM. Reason: fix quote tag

  15. #395
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    Sep 2007
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    Undisclosed
    Quote Originally Posted by rsvman View Post
    No, Mars Needs Guitars.




    (Major props to anybody who recognizes a this rather obscure and old pop-culture reference... without googling!)
    Album, or film?

    I think I still have have vinyl somewhere . . . .
    Last edited by -jk; 06-09-2021 at 07:13 AM. Reason: fix quote tag

  16. #396
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by rsvman View Post
    No, Mars Needs Guitars.




    (Major props to anybody who recognizes a this rather obscure and old pop-culture reference... without googling!)
    I thought Mars Needs Women was big ask. But Mars Needs Guitars? Kudos.

    And, yes, I had to look it up.
    Last edited by -jk; 06-09-2021 at 07:14 AM. Reason: fix quote tag

  17. #397
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    But Mars needs women.
    Not only do I get the cultural reference, but my ex's best friend was in the movie back in the '60s. She was (actually) the homecoming queen at SMU and was kidnapped along with her sister queens at other schools by the desperate folks from the Red Planet.
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  18. #398
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Chesapeake, VA.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    Album, or film?

    I think I still have have vinyl somewhere . . . .
    Excellent. I actually saw those guys in concert in New Orleans in the late 1980s. They put on a great show.


    For the uninitiated, we are talking about the band Hoodoo Gurus.
    "We are not provided with wisdom, we must discover it for ourselves, after a journey through the wilderness which no one else can take for us, an effort which no one can spare us, for our wisdom is the point of view from which we come at last to regard the world." --M. Proust

  19. #399
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    Not only do I get the cultural reference, but my ex's best friend was in the movie back in the '60s. She was (actually) the homecoming queen at SMU and was kidnapped along with her sister queens at other schools by the desperate folks from the Red Planet.
    Hard to top that for cocktail-party-conversation.

  20. #400
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    New Bern, NC unless it's a home football game then I'm grilling on Devil's Alley
    Last week Luis Elizondo, the former director of the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program, told the Washington Post that UAPs posed a serious threat.

    “In this country we’ve had incidents where these UAPs have interfered and actually brought offline our nuclear capabilities,” he said.

    “We also have data suggesting that in other countries these things have interfered with their nuclear technology and actually turned them on, put them online.”
    Well that's new.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/ufos-pose...152701297.html
    Q "Why do you like Duke, you didn't even go there." A "Because my art school didn't have a basketball team."

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