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  1. #121
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by cato View Post
    Perhaps I’m too simple minded, but if the concern is the winner going too low in relation to par, why not just change par? I guess it seems less exciting to take away eagle opportunities by reducing the number of par fives people can reach in two shots, but if lots of players are hitting short irons into the green why not make it a par four?
    "Par" is P.R. -- period. It's the number of strokes that count. My concern is that players use all the clubs in their bag. And reaching the green on a 550-yard hole with a nine-iron doesn't do that.
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  2. #122
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington DC
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    "Par" is P.R. -- period. It's the number of strokes that count. My concern is that players use all the clubs in their bag. And reaching the green on a 550-yard hole with a nine-iron doesn't do that.
    I think there are several components to the distance debate, that are separate but intertwined.

    The first is player vs course, and the concept of tournaments testing a golfer’s skill. Golfers carry 14 clubs, and traditionalists want golf to test all facets of a players game – driving, long game, approach, short game, putting – to determine champions. The concern with distance gains is that golf becomes driver, wedge, putter unless courses lengthen. And maybe that’s fine, and players will shoot rounds in the 50s, but the concept of having to have lots of shots mastered gets eliminated from the game.

    The second is player vs player, and the concern that distance has become a disproportionate advantage. Now it’s always been true that the best players were often some of the longest hitters (Hogan, Snead, Palmer, Nicklaus, Watson, Tiger), but the concern is that distance has become such a premium that the Gary Players and Lee Trevinos and Nick Faldos and Justin Leonards and Zach Johnsons and even Jordan Spieths of the world will be driven out of the game. Those guys used to be successful by being more accurate and having better short game and shotmaking skills to make up for the loss of driver distance, but with distance becoming even more of a premium they can no longer compete regardless of how good they are in other areas. Again, maybe that's fine, but it does change the balance of skill vs athleticism and the nature of the game from what many of us are used to and enjoy.

  3. #123
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Winston’Salem
    Fascinating take on B.A.D. from our occasional visitor, Shane Ryan:

    https://www.golfdigest.com/story/the...change-us-open

    I think it’s a bit too much to say that the B.A.D. Revolution will match Tiger, but some interesting points are made here, including the role of advanced metrics and big data as applied to golf.
    "Amazing what a minute can do."

  4. #124
    Deal with the distance with the rough. After 275 off the tee, the rough becomes 8". After 300, 12". Also, narrow the fairway. 275 make it 50', 300 make it 40'. Let the big kids deal with that.

  5. #125
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Winston’Salem
    Quote Originally Posted by Indoor66 View Post
    Deal with the distance with the rough. After 275 off the tee, the rough becomes 8". After 300, 12". Also, narrow the fairway. 275 make it 50', 300 make it 40'. Let the big kids deal with that.
    So undo 2001’s multi-million dollar Coore & Crenshaw renovation of Pinehurst No.2, which will be hosting five US Opens in the next 27 years?
    "Amazing what a minute can do."

  6. #126
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Chesapeake, VA.
    Quote Originally Posted by Indoor66 View Post
    Deal with the distance with the rough. After 275 off the tee, the rough becomes 8". After 300, 12". Also, narrow the fairway. 275 make it 50', 300 make it 40'. Let the big kids deal with that.
    You could just put up white stakes all over the course during the tournament, make a lot of those off-line shots into OB. That would convince the bombers to hit 5-irons off the tee. (Not a fan of "in-course out of bounds," by the way.)
    "We are not provided with wisdom, we must discover it for ourselves, after a journey through the wilderness which no one else can take for us, an effort which no one can spare us, for our wisdom is the point of view from which we come at last to regard the world." --M. Proust

  7. #127
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Chesapeake, VA.
    Quote Originally Posted by elvis14 View Post
    That's a great post, Sage. There are lots of subtle things they can do to slow down the pros that'll not effect the rest of us. A trench at 300 doesn't effect me at all, for example (that is unless I duff my second shot and it rolls 80 years into the trench).
    If it would take your ball 80 years to roll into the trench, I think you might have a major clubhead speed problem that needs to be addressed.......
    "We are not provided with wisdom, we must discover it for ourselves, after a journey through the wilderness which no one else can take for us, an effort which no one can spare us, for our wisdom is the point of view from which we come at last to regard the world." --M. Proust

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Tripping William View Post
    So undo 2001’s multi-million dollar Coore & Crenshaw renovation of Pinehurst No.2, which will be hosting five US Opens in the next 27 years?
    The question is dealing with the distance issue. If you can hit it straight for 350, go at it.

    The object is to take steps to preserve the viability of golf courses. Baseball took steps to cut down on the long ball - partially to preserve the viability of stadiums.

  9. #129
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Winston’Salem
    Quote Originally Posted by Indoor66 View Post
    The question is dealing with the distance issue. If you can hit it straight for 350, go at it.

    The object is to take steps to preserve the viability of golf courses. Baseball took steps to cut down on the long ball - partially to preserve the viability of stadiums.
    Define “viability.”
    "Amazing what a minute can do."

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Tripping William View Post
    Define “viability.”
    Making changes that require skill competition requiring use of more than a driver, wedge and putter.

  11. #131
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Winston’Salem
    Quote Originally Posted by Indoor66 View Post
    Making changes that require skill competition requiring use of more than a driver, wedge and putter.
    Courses have that, at least four times per round. At minimum, they are called the par 3’s. Tell Frankie Molinari and Jordan Spieth that the 12th at Augusta isn’t “viable.”
    "Amazing what a minute can do."

  12. #132
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by rsvman View Post
    If it would take your ball 80 years to roll into the trench, I think you might have a major clubhead speed problem that needs to be addressed...
    LOL, that was a great typo. An 80 year roll would be quite the feat, I'd be 133 when that penalty stroke kicked in.

  13. #133
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Winston’Salem
    Quote Originally Posted by elvis14 View Post
    LOL, that was a great typo. An 80 year roll would be quite the feat, I'd be 133 when that penalty stroke kicked in.
    Maybe by then you could shoot your age.
    "Amazing what a minute can do."

  14. #134
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tripping William View Post
    Maybe by then you could shoot your age.
    That’s it. Shut the thread down. Tripping William has won.

  15. #135
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Tripping William View Post
    Maybe by then you could shoot your age.
    Based on the way I hit the ball tonight...not likely!

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    That’s it. Shut the thread down. Tripping William has won.
    I agree, game over, winner! LOL

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Tripping William View Post
    Maybe by then you could shoot your age.
    If I "shoot" my age, does my age go down?

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