To all the football fans...

[JasonEvans]

Speculation about who should be Duke's next head football coach will lead to posts being deleted and infraction points being given. Until the day Ted Roof is fired or quits at Duke, it is not appropriate for fasn to usher him out the door or actively seek replacements.

It hurts fan morale
It hurts team morale
It causes huge problems for recruiting
And it shows a lack of respect for a man who is trying his hardest to make Duke football into something respectible... trust me, Ted Roof cares a heck of a lot more about this than all of us on this board. I bet no one is more frustrated than he is.

Feel free to discuss football in a constructive way, but demanding a new coach and discussing replacements for someone who is still currently the Duke coach is not constructive.

--Jason "I'm frustrated too, but I still support Roof and the kids who go to war with him every Satruday" Evans

[John Q. Devil]

Has this board gotten to the point where no criticism whatsoever is acceptable? What a joke.
(rest of post redacted)

[JasonEvans]

Has this board gotten to the point where no criticism whatsoever is acceptable? What a joke.
(rest of post redacted)

If you are not capable of talking about the struggles of the football team without advocating the firing of the head coach then you are not a very good debater/commentator.

I/we are not saying criticism is not allowed. Heck, criticize Roof if you want. But, do not call for him to be fired or speculate about his replacement.

The best thing that could happen for Duke would be for Ted Roof to be successful enough to be Duke's football coach for the next decade or longer.

-Jason

[Turtleboy]

Has this board gotten to the point where no criticism whatsoever is acceptable? What a joke.
(rest of post redacted)

Apparently.

[DU82]

If you are not capable of talking about the struggles of the football team without advocating the firing of the head coach then you are not a very good debater/commentator.

I/we are not saying criticism is not allowed. Heck, criticize Roof if you want. But, do not call for him to be fired or speculate about his replacement.

The best thing that could happen for Duke would be for Ted Roof to be successful enough to be Duke's football coach for the next decade or longer.

-Jason

Yes, it is tiring to hear the same old stuff after every game, but there's a reason for it. Our school (favorite, alma mater, whatever) has a terrible football team. Why is that? Is it still related to the previous football coaches, that dug us a huge hole to climb out of? Is it the current coaching staff, players, or a combination?

Let's discuss the GT game.

The good: I thought Kevin Jones had his best game punting. He had to do it way too often, and from poor field position, but he's come a long way since the UCon game. I only remember one really good return by GT, and that was on a punt from the end zone, into the wind. (The returner caught the ball on the dead run, letting him run past the defenders for a ~20 year gain.)

The defense played well at times, and contained the normal running plays fairly well.

The bad: everything else. The defense gave up way too many big plays. According to the paper, GT snapped to a running back 11 times for 84 yards. That's knowing they were going to run. We practiced against that play all week, and still were horrible at containing it. IS that execution, or is that bad preparation?

Eron Riley. If you're team is 1-8, and down 14 points, if you happen to score a touchdown after dropping quite a few passes on the day, don't showboat into the end zone. It cost your team field position, and another score before the half. Many a coach would have sat your butt on the bench. Is this a lack of discipline?

Question to the head coach? Are you involved in the offense? A couple of times, during time outs, you came over to the offensive huddle, but never went in to discuss the play. Are you satisfied with how your offensive coordinator is handling things? (Honestly, this is a question that we wondered about. I understand allowing the coordinator a free hand, that's how Red Wilson did things, and it worked better than all but one coach in my 30 seasons of watching Duke football. It just looked odd out there to come over to the huddle, but then not go in.)

There. That's three direct things from this past game that go directly to the ability of the head coach. Earlier this season, we made clear progress. But the last few games, it appears we've gone backwards. Is that due to injuries, or is it due to lack of preparation and coaching?

[NYC Duke Fan]

Speculation about who should be Duke's next head football coach will lead to posts being deleted and infraction points being given. Until the day Ted Roof is fired or quits at Duke, it is not appropriate for fasn to usher him out the door or actively seek replacements.

It hurts fan morale
It hurts team morale
It causes huge problems for recruiting
And it shows a lack of respect for a man who is trying his hardest to make Duke football into something respectible... trust me, Ted Roof cares a heck of a lot more about this than all of us on this board. I bet no one is more frustrated than he is.

Feel free to discuss football in a constructive way, but demanding a new coach and discussing replacements for someone who is still currently the Duke coach is not constructive.

--Jason "I'm frustrated too, but I still support Roof and the kids who go to war with him every Satruday" Evans

It is interesting to note that in the past there have been posts entitled,"Fire Joe Alleva". Yet those posts were allowed to be run. What is the difference ?

Noone is not supporting the kids who go out and bust their butts every Saturday. I understand that Coach Roof is a really decent, hard-working guy.No body likes to see another individual lose their jobs; they have families and financial responsibilities. That said, when Coach Roof decided that he wanted to be a college head football coach, he knew or should have known that his tenure anywhere would be based solely on his performance.That is the nature of a college head football coach.

If I am not mistaken, and I could be, you have previously posted that wins were not the most important barometer in assessing a coach's performance. In your estimation , then what is ? There is an excellent chance that Duke will lose its next 2 games to Notre Dame and UNC which would bring the last two season's record to 1-23. If you are satisfied with that then that is OK but I think that you would be in the distinct minority of the posters on this board.

Lastly, I, and I am sure others , would like to hear your objective assessment of the job that Coach Roof has done as the head coach at Duke.

[JasonEvans]

It is interesting to note that in the past there have been posts entitled,"Fire Joe Alleva". Yet those posts were allowed to be run. What is the difference ?

No one is not supporting the kids who go out and bust their butts every Saturday. I understand that Coach Roof is a really decent, hard-working guy.No body likes to see another individual lose their jobs; they have families and financial responsibilities. That said, when Coach Roof decided that he wanted to be a college head football coach, he knew or should have known that his tenure anywhere would be based solely on his performance.That is the nature of a college head football coach.

If I am not mistaken, and I could be, you have previously posted that wins were not the most important barometer in assessing a coach's performance. In your estimation , then what is ? There is an excellent chance that Duke will lose its next 2 games to Notre Dame and UNC which would bring the last two season's record to 1-23. If you are satisfied with that then that is OK but I think that you would be in the distinct minority of the posters on this board.

Lastly, I, and I am sure others , would like to hear your objective assessment of the job that Coach Roof has done as the head coach at Duke.

I am still where I have been since the beginning of the season-- I think Roof deserves more time. Now, in no way am I as confident about the team's performance as I was a few weeks ago. A few weeks ago I really felt this program was really headed in a positive direction. As one of the ESPN analysts wrote, "Duke has not turned the corner, but Ted Roof has them at least peeking around it" I really felt that it where we were and I was upset at the folks who wanted to place arbitrary win total requirements on Roof.

I still feel wins are a poor measure. Yes, I want to win as much as the next guy but there are other markers that an intelligent observer of sports can see to determine if a program is making progress. It was clear to me a few weeks ago that we were certainly making progress and improving, even if it was not yet reflected in wins. That is less clear to me now, but I still think Roof and his team deserve more time. Frankly, unless it is clear the coach has lost control of the team, I think any discussion of a coach's future during the season are counter-productive and foolish.

I am not satisfied with 1-23 (if that is how this season ends). I want us to win. I am not sure if Ted Roof is the man who can fix things for us but he is the guy with that job for now. I can think of many things about his coaching tenure so far that do not please me, especially the offensive play-calling and execution. Still, he is the coach and deserves our respect and support until such time he is no longer the coach. As I stated at the beginning of this thread, I think it is harmful to the program to discuss firing the coach or discussing his replacements during the season.

Finally, the folks who own and run this website have asked the people who post here to follow certain guidelines when they post. It has been stated on numerous occasions that demands for Roof's firing would not be tolerated. While we want to keep as many posters as we can, please know that there are other websites with bulletin boards which would welcome you if you wish to post stuff that is not allowed here. But, while you are here, I don't think it is too much to ask you to follow the wishes of the folks who run this joint.

--Jason "for the record, I see the AD as being different from a coach as his job is more ongoing, not seasonal, and his relationship with the players and recruits is more distant" Evans

[Kimist]

Although I frequently review the information on the DBR, I (as you can see) put up very few posts. It is obvious that some "regulars" spend most of their entire waking existence posting on these boards. That is their right, and I have no problems with such behavior. I do find DBR to be a welcome island of peace, an observation that is further supported whenever I read some of the absolute trash that is allowed on the boards for many of those other ACC schools.

Having said all of that, I am taken a bit aback by the apparent position now taken by DBR on any negative board comments about the current condition of the Duke football program. There ARE problems with the program, regardless of whether they originate with President Brodhead, the team managers, or the numerous folks in-between. I have no personal animosity toward Coach Roof and his staff. I fully understand that in most cases the players are giving their best. It does not require a rocket scientist to note the extreme frustration resulting from the continuing downward spiral, including the torment personally shown by Coach Roof.

I have been attending games in Wade Stadium since the "splinters up your [behind]" days of the 60's. It is truly sad to see the continuing dismal state of Duke football. My college-age children have (except from TV) no idea what a "big" football game involves, and certainly not one on the Duke campus. (A trip to see a Duke win in Neyland Stadium was a welcome break!) When the attendance of fans for the visiting team often exceeds that of those from the home team, something is terribly wrong. When a team can perhaps eke out just one or two wins in a season, there IS a problem somewhere.

IF I had a reasonable solution, I would at least toss it around here. Unfortunately, I do not. I do fervently feel that well-intentioned statements, to include "negative" comments, should not be overly moderated on these boards.

Here's hoping for at least some demonstrable meaningful progress in the football program, as well as to a great season with those hardwood guys of Cameron Indoor Stadium!

k

[JasonEvans]

Having said all of that, I am taken a bit aback by the apparent position now taken by DBR on any negative board comments about the current condition of the Duke football program.

I am not sure where you have gotten this impression but you are 100% wrong.

The DBR has no policy at all regarding criticism of the team or the coach with the singular exception that it is unproductive and negative to call for the firing of the coach or discuss potential replacements (which is essentially the same as calling for his firing). In fact, we greatly encourage and want other criticism, so long as it is framed in a constructive fashion and seeks to support and improve our football team.

I know many folks will say that th best way to improve the football team is firing the coach. Regardless of whether that is something I agree with or not, it is not something that is going to happen before the season is over (unless he loses control of the team). I see no reason to wildly speculate about the future until the season is done. The kids are still trying to win games and compete. Roof is still trying as well. Until this season is behind us, I think it is quite reasonable to ask fans to support the kids and the program and the coach in a positive fashion.

--Jason "anyone who thinks all criticism is forbidden is really not paying attention to what is being written by the moderators" Evans

[bluepenguin]

Speculation about who should be Duke's next head football coach will lead to posts being deleted and infraction points being given. Until the day Ted Roof is fired or quits at Duke, it is not appropriate for fasn to usher him out the door or actively seek replacements.

It hurts fan morale
It hurts team morale
It causes huge problems for recruiting
And it shows a lack of respect for a man who is trying his hardest to make Duke football into something respectible... trust me, Ted Roof cares a heck of a lot more about this than all of us on this board. I bet no one is more frustrated than he is.

Feel free to discuss football in a constructive way, but demanding a new coach and discussing replacements for someone who is still currently the Duke coach is not constructive.

--Jason "I'm frustrated too, but I still support Roof and the kids who go to war with him every Satruday" Evans

Jason Evans was the last person I expected to quash first amendment rights. Why shouldn't we be allowed to criticize a team, coach, program that hasn't won a conference game in years? And, do you really think our criticism on this board is going to keeping them from succeeding?
I think the criticism is no worse than having to read the drippy love fest that goes on every season, where posters "analyze" the team and tell us they expect the team to go .500.
Or how about the basketball team? Yesterday's article on the NCCU game in DBR said: "...it’s become ever clearer that we may be in the presence of greatness. Kyle Singler is showing every sign of being an extraordinary talent. His basic gifts will leave Duke fans and everyone else searching for comparisons." Don't you think spewing that kind of hyperbole after the kid has only played one regular season game in his life (and that against an out-matched team, in Cameron) is a bit ridiculous? Isn't it possible that creating that kind of expectation this early, could affect his ability to perform? How many times have we seen players get frustrated (and fans) because they did not live up to the media's expectations.
To me, that is a much bigger problem, than criticizing Roof on these boards.
Please, Jason, you have always been a voice of reason on these boards - rethink what you posted. It's just not right.

[JasonEvans]

Jason Evans was the last person I expected to quash first amendment rights. Why shouldn't we be allowed to criticize a team, coach, program that hasn't won a conference game in years? And, do you really think our criticism on this board is going to keeping them from succeeding?

For all the people who are reading comprehension challenged, I am going to say this one last time...

WE ARE NOT CENSORING OR STOPPING ALL CRITICISM OF THE FOOTBALL TEAM!!!!

How hard is it to understand that? Show me one place where any Moderator was unclear about our policy on this!!!! We have one very simple request which I will now repeat for about the 150th time...

Do not post about wanting Ted Roof fired or speculating about his replacement during the regular season.

It is the opinion of the people who run this website and pay for it to exist that calls for Roof's firing are destructively negative and harm the program in a number of ways. If you disagree, feel free to take your opinion on the football team elsewhere.

I think the criticism is no worse than having to read the drippy love fest that goes on every season, where posters "analyze" the team and tell us they expect the team to go .500.

Yeah, because fan optimism is such a horrible thing. As an aside, I can identify at least 4 games so far this season that Duke could have quite easily won had a few things broken their way. It seems silly to say so, but .500 would not have been that impossible.

Or how about the basketball team? Yesterday's article on the NCCU game in DBR said: "...it’s become ever clearer that we may be in the presence of greatness. Kyle Singler is showing every sign of being an extraordinary talent. His basic gifts will leave Duke fans and everyone else searching for comparisons." Don't you think spewing that kind of hyperbole after the kid has only played one regular season game in his life (and that against an out-matched team, in Cameron) is a bit ridiculous? Isn't it possible that creating that kind of expectation this early, could affect his ability to perform? How many times have we seen players get frustrated (and fans) because they did not live up to the media's expectations.
To me, that is a much bigger problem, than criticizing Roof on these boards.
Please, Jason, you have always been a voice of reason on these boards - rethink what you posted. It's just not right.

I did not write that and did not see the game so I am hamstrung a bit when it comes to discussing that paragraph. I do concur that it is often a mistake to extrapolate great things based on just a couple early season games against overmatched opponents. I famously stated that Shav Randolph's jersey would someday be retired by Duke after watching his first two games of his freshman year. Oooops

Thanks for thinking of me as a voice of reason. I actually think the stance of the DBR in this thread is quite reasonable -- which is why I am defending it so strongly.

--Jason "go back and look at what Shav did his first 2 games... I wasn't that crazy to think he'd be an all-timer" Evans

[YmoBeThere]

It is obvious that some "regulars" spend most of their entire waking existence posting on these boards. That is their right, and I have no problems with such behavior.
k

I am just curious if you have no problems with it, why even mention it? Okay, I am being unnecessarily nitpicky and snarky...I apologize.

JE seems to be catching a lot of heat for his removal of a thread and for a long time, I saw such an action differently. However, last night, there was a post that I agree went over the line. I commented as much in the thread before it was removed.

There are many, many people that are frustrated with the progress or lack thereof as each week goes by. And it has genearlly gotten more quiet here with each week as frustration has been reduced to indifference. And this is where the balance has to be struck, allowing those frustrated voices to continue to offer their constructive criticism and weeding out those with nothing more to add to the conversation than, let's go get Coach XXX from XXX University.

It was the latter which was removed, not the former.

[TheTrain]

Feel free to join most Duke football fans over The Devils Den where the discussion of Roof, recruiting, the direction of Duke football and college football in general goes on in a civil and uncensored way

[Kimist]

I am just curious if you have no problems with it, why even mention it? Okay, I am being unnecessarily nitpicky and snarky...I apologize.

No underlying animus, as I thought I had stated earlier.

I have kept up with DBR for a very long time, and even found an old "juliovision.com" bookmark lurking, created far prior to my shown "join date." Over the years I have noted that there are board members who seem to post messages all of the time, frequently at least bordering on an argumentative stance with a few other board members. The moderators do an excellent job of keeping things civil, and I am extremely grateful for that aspect of these boards.

There are some posts where I read every word. There are some posts which I choose merely to scan, or even to ignore, to a certain degree based upon "who" wrote them. One might reasonably infer that a person who posts multi-messages on a daily basis here either is a super fan or possibly just has a lot of spare time available. Some seem to have an agenda, and some just like to "talk."

In the meanwhile, I shall continue to read as frequently as my own busy schedule allows, and to post rarely. Others may do whatever they wish without any recriminations (stated/unstated/implied) from moi.

Apology accepted.


- "I see no reason to elaborate further here" - kimist

[chrishoke]

Train is right. I like both boards. I even read IC every once in a blue moon.

Jason, you and the other mods here do a great job!

[feldspar]

It is interesting to note that in the past there have been posts entitled,"Fire Joe Alleva". Yet those posts were allowed to be run. What is the difference ?

Excellent point.

I wouldn't mind an explanation on that, either.

[dukie8]

The DBR has no policy at all regarding criticism of the team or the coach with the singular exception that it is unproductive and negative to call for the firing of the coach or discuss potential replacements (which is essentially the same as calling for his firing). In fact, we greatly encourage and want other criticism, so long as it is framed in a constructive fashion and seeks to support and improve our football team.

this is what i don't understand. how is it "unproductive and negative" to discuss replacements for roof? there have been numerous threads over the past couple of months that have done just that and i have found them to be entirely PRODUCTIVE and POSITIVE. posters who know a lot more about college football than i have made some very insightful comments about which other coaches and/or coordinators could do well at duke because they have done well in similar situations (eg, tough academics, less than stellar facilities and less than an enormous fan base). i have read what they have posted and have come away with a greater understanding of the situation. to me that is productive and positive. apparently it isn't.

[-jk]

Folks, please. Julio's posting guidelines state that the DBR boards are here "to foster a sense of community" and "to encourage intelligent discussion, debate, and commentary in a fun and civil atmosphere."

We've maintained that speculating on Coach Roof's termination or replacement before the end of the season is premature and destructive to the team and is, ipso facto, "destructively negative".

We cannot - we will not - tolerate this board devolving into the morass of whining and flaming and sniping so well exemplified by so many other sports boards out there. If that's what you want in a board, please feel free to go find it.

The rest of you are welcome to write whatever you like about the current football team, so long as you play by our rules: Until the end of the season, you can (constructively) critique Roof, his staff, and the football team all you want. After the season, you can (constructively) discuss Roof's employment situation.

(And we're a private entity; please leave the "first amendment rights" straw man out of it.)

Regards,

-jk

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Welcome back Kimist, and bluepenquin too! Your names have been absent far too long on the posted by side of things!

Before yesterday's game, I asked one of the most ardent "fire Roof" folks I know who he was rooting for yesterday, since a win would likely have secured Roof's position for next season, and he said "Duke, but it is tough to do so". You all know him and he passes the loyalty test. Same thing applies for the next two weeks: who are you rooting for? Notre Dame? carolina? If you are, take your stuff and go elsewhere.

[JasonEvans]

Excellent point.

I wouldn't mind an explanation on that, either.

As I stated earlier--

I see the AD as being different from a coach as his job is more ongoing, not seasonal, and his relationship with the players and recruits is more distant.

If you want to call for Alleva's firing and can do it in a reasonable way and with logical arguments to back it up, I am fine with that. I think the DBR might prefer if you did not scream it in the title of a thread.

There is a poster whose posting name is firealleva. The mods discussed this for a while and we have allowed it to stand. I am not a big fan of it though.

-Jason "if this board had been around in 1983, I am sure there would have been a poster with FireMike as his posting name" Evans