Any Astronomy Buffs Here?

[Wander]

When will we see the photos of the Alien bases on Mars? (or is the wrong thread)

I know you're sorta kidding, but the thing you all saw land on Mars yesterday might really be the thing that discovers aliens. It would probably be somewhat ambiguous from the rover itself, but could be less so with the samples it collects for return to Earth (so, a longer wait). Or it might not, obviously. But it's not a crazy thing to talk about.

[DevilHorse]

When will we see the photos of the Alien bases on Mars? (or is the wrong thread)

We're the aliens on Mars!
The photos of the earth crafts appear earlier in the thread

Larry
DevilHorse

[DevilHorse]

Now that we can all exhale, and Percy has landed... and there is increased awareness and excitement!

There are a number of interesting (long) web pages with descriptions of the equipment and experiments that will be done.
Here are a couple of examples:

https://mars.nasa.gov/mars2020/spacecraft/instruments/

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-53129281

I'm interested in the RIMFAX experiment that will be using RADAR to map down to 10 meters below the martian surface.
Although this contrasts to the samples that will be collected that are as long as a piece of chalk (am I dating myself here) which is about 6 inches long.
So I don't think that if they see something interesting 5 meters down, they are going to be able to sample that.

The Helicopter will of course get great pictures of things that Percy can't get to. It will be interesting if they go beyond the rim of the Jezero Crater. Drone owners will be salivating as NASA plays with this new 'toy.'

I was musing on how navigation (in general) was going to be accomplished on Mars. There is no magnetic field due to a dynamo at the planet core, like on earth. Although there is a smaller magnetic field due to other effects. There is no GPS yet set up on Mars. There are plenty of cameras to use visual cues, and all kinds of self driving software to go around stones and holes locally. It will just be a "driving" experience done slowly but surely from earth.


Larry
DevilHorse

[CameronBornAndBred]

Here is a shot from the parachute taking Percy to the surface.

Actually, that's a shot from the skycrane, which is even cooler. The chute had already been let go to land out of the way, and then the rocket powered crane lowered Percy to the surface, and flew away to it's own spot.

As stated above, the folks who design Mars landings come up with some seriously insane methods.

[CameronBornAndBred]

A great quote from one of the mission directors about the photo posted above.

I can definitely say that when we saw this image...seeing the Rover hanging underneath the sky crane underneath our rocket-powered jet pack, I mean, this is something that we've never seen before. It was stunning, and the team was awestruck. And you know, there is just a feeling of victory that we were able to capture these and share the world.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/stunning-...113058694.html

[DevilHorse]

Just a warm-up ...

Here is an article about Ingenuity, the Helicopter part of Perseverence:
https://www.inverse.com/science/ther...copter-on-mars
Check out the simulation video toward the bottom. It is instructive but boring. As mentioned earlier in the thread, the sound effects are absurd.

Also watch for tomorrow's 2pm Eastern live teleconference from NASA on how things are going on Mars. BYOB.

Larry
DevilHorse

[Wander]

The Helicopter will of course get great pictures of things that Percy can't get to. It will be interesting if they go beyond the rim of the Jezero Crater. Drone owners will be salivating as NASA plays with this new 'toy.'

This time, the helicopter is mostly just there to look cool and see if it works. If it does work as expected, helicopters will be considered as more central parts of future Mars missions.

Also, check out Dragonfly, where we're sending a helicopter to Saturn's moon Titan in the late 2020s. That is going to be the coolest mission of our lifetime.

[DevilHorse]

A few clips worth appreciating from Data from Mars:

A panorama from Percy:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1363934387478298624

Wanna see Percy land, from Percy?
https://twitter.com/i/status/1363930124547022848

Better detailed partial panorama:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1363738978642522113

They will be taking their time figuring out where they want to go. They have many options.

Larry
DevilHorse

[CameronBornAndBred]

A few clips worth appreciating from Data from Mars:

A panorama from Percy:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1363934387478298624

Wanna see Percy land, from Percy?
https://twitter.com/i/status/1363930124547022848

Better detailed partial panorama:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1363738978642522113

They will be taking their time figuring out where they want to go. They have many options.

Larry
DevilHorse

That second one is AWESOME!

[DevilHorse]

That second one is AWESOME!

Apparently the FIRST film of a craft landing on another planet. Other contenders are the moon landing (not a planet, not in color), stop action photographs of things like sojourner slowly coming off its perch onto the Mars surface, and one that I thought of that wasn't mentioned: the Cassini Probe on Titan. None of the latter comes even close to the multi-camera, extravaganza Percy put on.

Larry
DevilHorse

[CameronBornAndBred]

Apparently the FIRST film of a craft landing on another planet. Other contenders are the moon landing (not a planet, not in color), stop action photographs of things like sojourner slowly coming off its perch onto the Mars surface, and one that I thought of that wasn't mentioned: the Cassini Probe on Titan. None of the latter comes even close to the multi-camera, extravaganza Percy put on.

Larry
DevilHorse

I was hoping it would keep the heat shield in frame so we could watch it create a new crater.

[DevilHorse]

For those of you who are fans of the Voyager plaque:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...eer_plaque.svg

You might enjoy this article about the plate (on the rover) that is used to periodically calibrate the camera(s) that are used to take precision measurements on Mars:
https://www.planetary.org/articles/calibrating-mars
It would appear to have just as much thought put into it, although without the pointers to trace it back to Earth (any sentient being that finds Percy, and can't find us on Earth should have their license revoked), as the Voyager plaque. With magnets to keep the red/iron dust off of it to maintain the color; wow, good thinking. Wouldn't work for plain old earth crud.

Missing of course is an alphabet to decode the language used on the plate; at least they could provide a pointer to google and some wifi.

Definitely not talked about, but a very interesting hidden feature of Perseverance.

Larry
DevilHorse

[PackMan97]

It would appear to have just as much thought put into it, although without the pointers to trace it back to Earth (any sentient being that finds Percy, and can't find us on Earth should have their license revoked), as the Voyager plaque. With magnets to keep the red/iron dust off of it to maintain the color; wow, good thinking. Wouldn't work for plain old earth crud.

LOL! And as close as Voyager is to our sun, again anyone that can make the trip to find Voyager, should have no trouble finding Earth. It's going to be about 40,000 years before Voyager no longer has the sun as the primary gravitational force on it.

[DevilHorse]

LOL! And as close as Voyager is to our sun, again anyone that can make the trip to find Voyager, should have no trouble finding Earth. It's going to be about 40,000 years before Voyager no longer has the sun as the primary gravitational force on it.

Of course the gravity argument, not helpful with localizing the home of Oumuamua. But then unlike Voyager, Perseverance is not moving freely in space, just in dirt.

Larry
DevilHorse

[BlueDevil2K]

Just a warm-up ...

Here is an article about Ingenuity, the Helicopter part of Perseverence:
https://www.inverse.com/science/ther...copter-on-mars
Check out the simulation video toward the bottom. It is instructive but boring. As mentioned earlier in the thread, the sound effects are absurd.

Also watch for tomorrow's 2pm Eastern live teleconference from NASA on how things are going on Mars. BYOB.

Larry
DevilHorse

I learned this morning that a processor that I helped design (almost a decade ago), the Snapdragon 801, is the brains for Ingenuity. While I was already interested in this mission, I'm particularly interested in seeing if Ingenuity can actually fly.

[DevilHorse]

I learned this morning that a processor that I helped design (almost a decade ago), the Snapdragon 801, is the brains for Ingenuity. While I was already interested in this mission, I'm particularly interested in seeing if Ingenuity can actually fly.

That's fantastic!

I heard some discussion that they were re-using older technology/computers from previous rovers on Percy because they trusted its' reliability, rather than going with newer technology (i.e., a new iPhone and faster processor each year). Let all of those other rovers test out the new generics and releases, they are happy with what they are using.

I suppose the new release download charges will be expensive at this distance, and FEDEX upgrade delivery will be very expensive (how many digits on that tracking number??).

Larry
DevilHorse

[DevilHorse]

I was hoping it would keep the heat shield in frame so we could watch it create a new crater.

This doesn't quite give you what you want, but it shows the "rocket litter" left on Mars from delivering Perseverance. An unusual map:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EvJa7k5X...jpg&name=small

Larry
DevilHorse

[CameronBornAndBred]

SpaceX's Starship finally landed!

On the third test flight, it made it back to the landing pad successfully!

And then a minute later it blew up anyway.

https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/...60073416945670

[CameronBornAndBred]

Earth bound science in action. This looks so amazingly cool, can't wait to see (literally) how it turns out.

Scientists started on Friday casting one of the largest telescope mirrors ever made on Earth for the Giant Magellan Telescope being built in Chile.

Why it matters: The huge telescope is designed to one day peer into the atmospheres of potentially habitable planets around far-off stars, learn more about early galaxies and study other objects of interest.
...

"Once cooled, the mirror will be polished for two years before reaching an optical surface precision of less than one thousandth of the width of a human hair or five times smaller than a single coronavirus particle"

https://www.yahoo.com/news/scientist...212400213.html

I appreciate all of the radio telescopes, and infrared and whatever...but this is a true mirror. Exactly like the ones I have in my own puny 6" and 8" telescopes. Just a little more pricey.

[DevilHorse]

Earth bound science in action. This looks so amazingly cool, can't wait to see (literally) how it turns out.


https://www.yahoo.com/news/scientist...212400213.html

I appreciate all of the radio telescopes, and infrared and whatever...but this is a true mirror. Exactly like the ones I have in my own puny 6" and 8" telescopes. Just a little more pricey.

Of course I haven't seen the details of this telescope, but there are some basic limiting factors of earth based, optical telescopy:

1) light pollution (mountains of Chile are good, but it gets worse all of the time)

2) Glass is still a fluid, not a solid. (did you ever see 100 year old windows?) No matter how you polish it, it will slowly flow out of focus. Remember the first Hubble Telescope lens? It is hard to do right.

3) The Atmosphere changes with wind, uneven clouds (jet trails), pollution, ozone, and temperature. Stars twinkle for a reason. It hurts optical viewing and stability; and it gets windy in the mountains; even small telescopes shake.

4) Elon Musk, and his ilk, and his ongoing pollution of the heavens of satellites and space junk. Probably integrated out, but limiting nonetheless.

I recall a while ago reading an article suggesting that a 200" optical telescope was about as big an optical telescope that could be built with a single lens. Of course, multiple mirror, optical lens telescopes have been built that try to get past these limitations:
https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...MygDegUIARCfAg

Optical telescopes are the most viscerally enjoyable and accessible, but they (obviously) still cover only a fraction of the EM spectrum. Since it has been determined that most of what is out there is Dark Matter, there are so many more structures out there to find (without getting a crick in your neck). But I digress.

Larry
DevilHorse