Moving to the Triangle - Real Estate insanity

[jimsumner]

What is so interesting to me about the Triangle is how different each area is. Durham to me is the UNC-CH of cities in the Triangle. I don't understand why people like it and I would never want to go there. However, the people that like Durham really like Durham.

The people that like UNC-CH really like UNC-CH.

[DukieInKansas]

The people that like UNC-CH really like UNC-CH.

Yeah, but they are all just a bit nuts. ;-) I don't think the same is true for the people that like Durham.

How is the restaurant business holding up in Durham. As I recall, the city had a pretty good restaurant scene.

[DU82]

Nobody has mentioned Durham, so I will. I like living here. It's close to most things that matter (including work), but not crowded. It's less expensive than the neighbors. There are plenty of good areas with very good public schools (as in, win national awards good), and at least one excellent private school, if that's your thing. Is it perfect? Of course not. But it's a good bang for the buck and an excellent community.

Not having children, I can only go on reputation. You need to be picky about the schools in Durham, but there are some good ones. (People on here have "survived" Durham public schools sufficiently to go on to graduate from Duke.) There's also the charter schools that might be an option.

But as a traffic engineer, I feel Durham's the easiest from that standpoint. I can get to most points in the triangle within ~30 minutes (I-540/NC 540 help on that.) Rarely do you run into real problems, other than on I-40 returning from RTP in normal peak periods (basically Page Road through Fayetteville, and then again at US 15-501 until we can get it widened in Orange County out to I-85.)

The Durham Freeway (soon to be I-885 once the East End Connector is opened this fall out to US 70 and I-85) can be jammed in peak hours as well, again until a widening project can happen (that one's going to be later than the I-40 widening.)

The surface streets are much more manageable than Raleigh or Cary. Some issues in North Durham (Roxboro at Latta, for instance) but generally not a big problem.+

[PackMan97]

The surface streets are much more manageable than Raleigh or Cary.

"Old Cary"...like the part build from 1980-2000 also known as Central Cary (the part that's basically inside and around Cary Parkway doesn't really have any traffic issues. It's only an issue in West Cary where you get plugged up with all the people in Apex and Holly Springs commuting through West Cary.

[Nepos]

What is so interesting to me about the Triangle is how different each area is. Durham to me is the UNC-CH of cities in the Triangle. I don't understand why people like it and I would never want to go there. However, the people that like Durham really like Durham.

I've lived in Durham for the past 20 years, and lived in the Chapel Hill/Carrboro area the 10 years before that. My wife and I love the triangle, but would never choose to live on the east side. To use stereotypes, to us the west seems more diverse, liberal, intellectual, artistic, and generally has more character -- but loads of people prefer Cary, etc. so it's a matter of personal preference.

[jimmymax]

Traffic is relative, and it depends what you're used, your work hours, etc. I will say that working from home makes it a non-factor for many, at least for now.

You've heard the old chestnut about what CARY stands for, right? I'm from the northeast and had some family move down. They were drawn to Cary (and north Raleigh) because it was familiar. I think that means that there were enough malls with the right stores. IMO that amounts to a generic suburbia that one could find just about anywhere, but whatever floats your boat.

We lived in Chatham country, just south of Chapel Hill, for 20 years but about 10 years ago we moved to Durham, for the public schools. Pittsboro was just the wrong direction. We could have moved into Chapel Hill but chose not to after observing many examples of the CH high school culture of competition, cars, drugs, etc. We thought it better to avoid these pressures if possible. Luckily the kids are bright and Durham public schools worked out fine. (They were accepted to Duke but I think kids from Durham county have an edge.)

Unfortunately, most Durham neighborhoods near downtown are now no longer a deal, though as in most Triangle towns there are a multitude of housing developments around. Carrboro is walkable (and not *quite* as light blue as CH) but not cheap, with fewer developments, and houses are quite small. Until a few years ago Hillsborough was very attractive (smaller, older houses) but prices have gone up and the lack of a bypass is becoming problematic. It is pretty quick for getting onto I-85.

Obviously there are lots of factors in the decision: commute, schools, lot/house size, walk/drive... We're kind of thinking about heading back into the country, but still want easy access to Durham and CH/Carrboro. Northern Orange county is beautiful and looks promising. Good luck with your search.

[Steven43]

I've lived in Durham for the past 20 years, and lived in the Chapel Hill/Carrboro area the 10 years before that. My wife and I love the triangle, but would never choose to live on the east side. To use stereotypes, to us the west seems more diverse, liberal, intellectual, artistic, and generally has more character -- but loads of people prefer Cary, etc. so it's a matter of personal preference.

Yep, Durham is the happening place to be in The Triangle. It is all those things you said and more. It reminds me of a junior version of Austin when I moved there in 1988 to attend the Univ. of Texas— progressive, diverse, environmentally aware, lots of forested areas, good music scene, good arts scene, tons of quality restaurants, open-minded, youthful, convenient to other nearby towns, easy to get around, etc.

Chapel Hill has all of that, too, and better schools, but with considerably less overall diversity. I highly recommend both, with a slight edge to Durham, mainly because of Duke over UNC.

[Acymetric]

Yep, Durham is the happening place to be in The Triangle. It is all those things you said and more. It reminds me of a junior version of Austin when I moved there in 1988 to attend the Univ. of Texas— progressive, diverse, environmentally aware, lots of forested areas, good music scene, good arts scene, tons of quality restaurants, open-minded, youthful, convenient to other nearby towns, easy to get around, etc.

Chapel Hill has all of that, too, and better schools, but with considerably less overall diversity. I highly recommend both, with a slight edge to Durham, mainly because of Duke over UNC.

To me the problem with Chapel Hill is that it is too disconnected from the rest of the Triangle. Durham, Apex/Morrisville/Cary/etc., and the Durham side of Raleigh give you easy access to pretty much everywhere in the Triangle you might want to go.

[Steven43]

To me the problem with Chapel Hill is that it is too disconnected from the rest of the Triangle. Durham, Apex/Morrisville/Cary/etc., and the Durham side of Raleigh give you easy access to pretty much everywhere in the Triangle you might want to go.

Disconnected how, exactly? Durham and Chapel Hill literally share a border. Chapel Hill is on I-40, which is the main interstate that goes to Cary and Raleigh, not to mention that it’s right next to Carrboro and not far from Hillsborough.

From Chapel Hill you can get to anywhere in the Triangle in 30 minutes or less, with several of the cities and towns being only 10-15 minutes away, which is a geographical similarity it shares with Durham.

[Acymetric]

Disconnected how, exactly? Durham and Chapel Hill literally share a border. Chapel Hill is on I-40, which is the main interstate that goes to Cary and Raleigh, not to mention that it’s right next to Carrboro and not far from Hillsborough.

From Chapel Hill you can get to anywhere in the Triangle in 30 minutes or less, with several of the cities and towns being only 10-15 minutes away, which is a geographical similarity it shares with Durham.

You're treating the border of each city as "the city" and choosing whichever border that would make the distance the shortest. Chapel Hill is about 15 minutes further from the rest of the Triangle than most parts of Durham (except for the parts of Durham right at the border of Chapel Hill, obviously, but that isn't most of Durham). It is pretty easy to see this if you look at a map, Chapel Hill is obviously further west than Durham which means it must be further from the other towns that are to the east. For "convenience to the rest of the Triangle", you're looking at probably South Durham, Morrisville, Cary, or West Raleigh. Chapel Hill is no more convenient to the area than Knightdale, Wake Forest, or Garner (all of which are nice places to live, but convenience to the rest of the Triangle is not their selling point). It takes me 20 minutes to get from where I live in South Durham (right off 40) to where my sister lives in Chapel Hill. The only place 10-15 minutes from Chapel Hill is Durham. Raleigh (depending on where you're going I guess) is going to be more like 40 minutes (there are parts of Raleigh that are 40 minutes fromDurham).

Source: 30+ years living in Durham, Cary, and Raleigh.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

You're treating the border of each city as "the city" and choosing whichever border that would make the distance the shortest. Chapel Hill is about 15 minutes further from the rest of the Triangle than most parts of Durham (except for the parts of Durham right at the border of Chapel Hill, obviously, but that isn't most of Durham). It is pretty easy to see this if you look at a map, Chapel Hill is obviously further west than Durham which means it must be further from the other towns that are to the east. For "convenience to the rest of the Triangle", you're looking at probably South Durham, Morrisville, Cary, or West Raleigh. Chapel Hill is no more convenient to the area than Knightdale, Wake Forest, or Garner (all of which are nice places to live, but convenience to the rest of the Triangle is not their selling point). It takes me 20 minutes to get from where I live in South Durham (right off 40) to where my sister lives in Chapel Hill. The only place 10-15 minutes from Chapel Hill is Durham. Raleigh (depending on where you're going I guess) is going to be more like 40 minutes (there are parts of Raleigh that are 40 minutes fromDurham).

Source: 30+ years living in Durham, Cary, and Raleigh.

I agree. Chapel Hill is not right off I-40. I live in NW Cary and it takes me 25-30 minutes to get to Chapel Hill without traffic. There are no good direct routes. Whereas I can jump on 540 here and get almost anywhere else I want to go in about 20 minutes. I can even get all the way to North Raleigh in 35 minutes, only slightly longer than going to CH. I think it’s just that getting to/from CH requires using secondary roads for a bit before you get to a highway that takes you somewhere you actually want to be.

[Steven43]

You're treating the border of each city as "the city" and choosing whichever border that would make the distance the shortest. Chapel Hill is about 15 minutes further from the rest of the Triangle than most parts of Durham (except for the parts of Durham right at the border of Chapel Hill, obviously, but that isn't most of Durham). It is pretty easy to see this if you look at a map, Chapel Hill is obviously further west than Durham which means it must be further from the other towns that are to the east. For "convenience to the rest of the Triangle", you're looking at probably South Durham, Morrisville, Cary, or West Raleigh. Chapel Hill is no more convenient to the area than Knightdale, Wake Forest, or Garner (all of which are nice places to live, but convenience to the rest of the Triangle is not their selling point). It takes me 20 minutes to get from where I live in South Durham (right off 40) to where my sister lives in Chapel Hill. The only place 10-15 minutes from Chapel Hill is Durham. Raleigh (depending on where you're going I guess) is going to be more like 40 minutes (there are parts of Raleigh that are 40 minutes fromDurham).

Source: 30+ years living in Durham, Cary, and Raleigh.

As far as I am concerned the two best cities in The Triangle are Chapel Hill and Durham, and they border on each other. It is fairly easy and convenient to travel between the two. If you live in either of those two cities and you want to venture out to Cary and Raleigh it will take you 20-35 minute regardless of whether you live in CH or Durham. Additionally, CH is closer to Carrboro and Pittsboro -- two towns I visit somewhat regularly -- than is Durham, and it is equidistant to Hillsborough, Mebane, Burlington, Greensboro, and Winston-Salem. And of course, CH, like Durham, is closer to all of those cities/towns than if you live in Raleigh or Cary.

The truth is, if you live in CH or Durham what really matters far more than driving time to infrequently-visited cities such as Cary and Raleigh is driving time to the things you do on a daily basis. All in all I stand by my premise that if you live in either city you really can't go wrong.

[cspan37421]

Efland, for early adopters. You heard it here first!

[Steven43]

Efland, for early adopters. You heard it here first!

Darn it, I forgot Efland! 😞

[PackMan97]

I really think you guys are a bit biased about Durham

Personally, the unincorporated parts of Wake County are the best.

[jimsumner]

Raleigh (depending on where you're going I guess) is going to be more like 40 minutes (there are parts of Raleigh that are 40 minutes fromDurham).

Source: 30+ years living in Durham, Cary, and Raleigh.

There are parts of Raleigh that are 40 minutes from other parts of Raleigh. Seriously. I live in west Raleigh and I can get to Southpoint in Durham quicker than I can get to some northeast Raleigh shopping centers.

Look, I'm old and decrepit and live in the suburbs. But downtown Raleigh has lots of high-rises, quality restaurants, craft breweries and hip, high-tech industries. You can't go two blocks in downtown Raleigh without bumping into a Beard Awards semifinalist.

And Raleigh has a GREAT greenway system.

Durham has one thing that Raleigh doesn't, a downtown sports facility. And Durham has developed quite a scene around the Bulls park. Raleigh was on the way to a downtown soccer facility before COVID shut things down. It's on hold, not dead.

And the Durham Performing Arts Center kicks Raleigh's butt for musicals, national touring musicals like Hamilton or Book of Mormon.

But the North Carolina Symphony, Carolina Ballet and North Carolina Opera are all centered in Raleigh. So, Raleigh kicks Durham's butt for classical music. Raleigh hosts the International Bluegrass Festival, Durham the American Dance Festival. Raleigh has the North Carolina State Fair, Durham has the Durham Blues Festival. Raleigh has bigger concert venues, PNC Arena and Walnut Creek amphitheater, with whatever corporate sponsor has naming rights.

And Raleigh is the state capital, so it has all those state museums.

And Raleigh has a National Hockey League team.

Different strokes for different folks. Some of this matters a lot to some people, some not at all. If urban living floats your boat, Raleigh and Durham will scratch that itch. Suburbs, small towns, college towns, even some remaining country-living options abound throughout the Triangle. You have lots of options. Lots.

Let me throw in a word for Umstead State Park, almost 6,000 acres of woods and trails and lakes and streams. Between Raleigh and Durham and Cary, close to the airport. If you have any interest in running, walking or biking, then this is the Triangle's jewel.

And, oh, yes, world-class health facilities. Have a life-threatening illness or two and the Triangle is a GREAT place to live.

[Steven43]

I really think you guys are a bit biased about Durham

Personally, the unincorporated parts of Wake County are the best.

Not sure if you’re going by the widespread negative (and often racist) impressions of Durham from 20 years ago — voiced primarily by people who have never even lived there — but I can assure you that those negative impressions are no longer valid.

Durham is an exciting up-and-coming city with an extremely vibrant downtown, lots of youthful energy and enthusiasm, thousands of acres of beautiful wooded areas, great diversity, — racially, socioeconomically, etc. — one of the best minor league baseball franchises (Durham Bulls) in the country, one of the best universities in the country (Duke), an excellent concert venue (DPAC), many good restaurants of all types, and a thriving arts and music scene.

I have no idea what one would want or hope to expect beyond that.

[jimsumner]

Not sure if you’re going by the widespread negative (and often racist) impressions of Durham from 20 years ago — voiced primarily by people who have never even lived there — but I can assure you that those negative impressions are no longer valid.

.

An awfully big assumption to make.

[grad_devil]

Efland, for early adopters. You heard it here first!

Every time we drive by there, I yell out 'ELfland!' at the top of my lungs, and proclaim "that's where the elves live!"

My wife thinks I'm hilarious</sarcasm>

[OldPhiKap]

Every time we drive by there, I yell out 'ELfland!' at the top of my lungs, and proclaim "that's where the elves live!"

My wife thinks I'm hilarious</sarcasm>

Repetition is the key to humor.