Moving to the Triangle - Real Estate insanity

[Acymetric]

Not sure if you’re going by the widespread negative (and often racist) impressions of Durham from 20 years ago — voiced primarily by people who have never even lived there — but I can assure you that those negative impressions are no longer valid.

Durham is an exciting up-and-coming city with an extremely vibrant downtown, lots of youthful energy and enthusiasm, thousands of acres of beautiful wooded areas, great diversity, — racially, socioeconomically, etc. — one of the best minor league baseball franchises (Durham Bulls) in the country, one of the best universities in the country (Duke), an excellent concert venue (DPAC), many good restaurants of all types, and a thriving arts and music scene.

I have no idea what one would want or hope to expect beyond that.

An awfully big assumption to make.

Yeah, I don't think there was any reason to go there at all. Nobody is bashing Durham here. There are reasons to like Durham, and there are perfectly good reasons to prefer other parts of the Triangle instead. You (Steven43) are the only one getting combative or going negative here, I would suggest scaling it back a bit.

Anyways, Jim (as would be expected) had a great summary a little further above. I'll plug Koka Booth Amphitheater in Cary as the best outdoor venue in the Triangle (although obviously nowhere near as large as Walnut Creek). The quantity and quality of music venues (small, medium, and large) in Wake County (mostly Raleigh, but also elsewhere) is a large part of what has caused me to gravitate there over the last decade or so.

[Steven43]

An awfully big assumption to make.

To which alleged assumption are you referring?

[Steven43]

Yeah, I don't think there was any reason to go there at all. Nobody is bashing Durham here. There are reasons to like Durham, and there are perfectly good reasons to prefer other parts of the Triangle instead. You (Steven43) are the only one getting combative or going negative here, I would suggest scaling it back a bit.

You are giving false impressions of what I said. I was not “getting combative or going negative”. You are incorrectly interpreting my words and intent.

I simply said I have heard negative — usually racist — comments made about Durham for over 20 years. I was stating facts from my experience.

[jimsumner]

You are giving false impressions of what I said. I was not “getting combative or going negative”. You are incorrectly interpreting my words and intent.

I simply said I have heard negative — usually racist — comments made about Durham for over 20 years. I was stating facts from my experience.

Not one person in this thread has even remotely suggested in any way, shape or form that they didn't feel comfortable living in Durham because of its racial composition or that they were relying on offensive stereotypes from the last century.

Don't understand why you would bring it up.

And yes, "Not sure if you’re going by the widespread negative (and often racist) impressions of Durham from 20 years ago — voiced primarily by people who have never even lived there" seems to be making assumptions.

[Steven43]

Not one person in this thread has even remotely suggested in any way, shape or form that they didn't feel comfortable living in Durham because of its racial composition or that they were relying on offensive stereotypes from the last century.

Don't understand why you would bring it up.

And yes, "Not sure if you’re going by the widespread negative (and often racist) impressions of Durham from 20 years ago — voiced primarily by people who have never even lived there" seems to be making assumptions.

Whether anyone on this thread suggested those previously-pervasive negative impressions about Durham isn’t the salient point, I don’t think. All I’m saying is I have lost count of the many MANY times over the years I have heard people — none of whom had ever actually lived in Durham — make negative stereotypical comments about Durham based primarily on the socioeconomically poorer, primarily non-White parts of town,

Surely I don’t have to convince anyone that when something is said often enough over a long period of time by a wide range of people that it has an influence, to varying degrees, of course. So whether or not anyone made any explicit comments echoing those negative stereotypes, those ideas are out there and they consciously and subconsciously affect all of us who have heard them.

As to your point, however, I agree with you that no one in this thread has thus far voiced these negative stereotypes about Durham. I apologize if that was the impression I gave, as that was certainly not my intent.

[jimsumner]

Whether anyone on this thread suggested those previously-pervasive negative impressions about Durham isn’t the salient point, I don’t think. All I’m saying is I have lost count of the many MANY times over the years I have heard people — none of whom had ever actually lived in Durham — make negative stereotypical comments about Durham based primarily on the socioeconomically poorer, primarily non-White parts of town,

Surely I don’t have to convince anyone that when something is said often enough over a long period of time by a wide range of people that it has an influence, to varying degrees, of course. So whether or not anyone made any explicit comments echoing those negative stereotypes, those ideas are out there and they consciously and subconsciously affect all of us who have heard them.

As to your point, however, I agree with you that no one in this thread has thus far voiced these negative stereotypes about Durham. I apologize if that was the impression I gave, as that was certainly not my intent.

You specifically referenced these sentiments as having been from 20 years ago. Seems like you're trying to move the goalposts here.

[Steven43]

You specifically referenced these sentiments as having been from 20 years ago. Seems like you're trying to move the goalposts here.

Well, it was a bit more common to hear comments like that 20 years ago, but the truth is I still hear them today. In fact, just last week the owner (he lives in Burlington) of the construction company that built my medical building was talking with his foreman (who lives in Mebane) and they both referenced Durham in negatively stereotypical ways. I mildly disagreed with them, but I didn’t make a big deal out if because a) I knew quite well I wasn’t going to change their minds and b) I want to stay on good terms with these guys, and disagreeing on political issues with relatives, friends, or colleagues is almost always a no-no.

But anyway, I already apologized for the possibility that I may have given the impression that I felt some posters were being negative in a racist way about Durham. Like I said, if that was the impression I gave that was not my intent. Not sure why you keep pressing this issue.

[jimsumner]

Yeah, I don't think there was any reason to go there at all. Nobody is bashing Durham here. There are reasons to like Durham, and there are perfectly good reasons to prefer other parts of the Triangle instead. You (Steven43) are the only one getting combative or going negative here, I would suggest scaling it back a bit.

Anyways, Jim (as would be expected) had a great summary a little further above. I'll plug Koka Booth Amphitheater in Cary as the best outdoor venue in the Triangle (although obviously nowhere near as large as Walnut Creek). The quantity and quality of music venues (small, medium, and large) in Wake County (mostly Raleigh, but also elsewhere) is a large part of what has caused me to gravitate there over the last decade or so.

Very much agree on Koka Booth. Let me also add the amphitheater at the North Carolina Museum of Art. There's also an amphitheater in downtown Raleigh. Raleigh beats Durham in outdoor music facilities, Durham beats Raleigh in indoor music facilities.

The art museum is in the suburbs, while the North Carolina Museum of History and the North Carolina Museum of Natural Science are located downtown. All are state museums.

The latter shouldn't be confused with the North Carolina Museum of Life and Science, located just outside of downtown Durham and also worthy of multiple visits. Duke has a first-rate art museum (Nasher), while in addition to the NC Museum of Art, Raleigh has a first-rate Contemporary Museum of Art.

And there are other museums, very accessible on weekends, from anywhere in the Triangle. Less so during the week, when rush hour hits. But in the non-COVID-19 universe there are festivals, concerts, street fairs, art shows, ball games, something to do darn near any weekend.

Or stay home and sleep in. You've earned it.

It really is a neat area to live in, something for almost any tastes. And keep in mind, the beach and the moutains are easy day trips, in opposite directions, of course.

[LasVegas]

Wow. Thanks to everyone for all the comments. I apologize for my late reply but having three kids under 5 barely leaves me enough time to sleep at night.

I work from home so commute isn’t an issue for me. My wife is a teacher so she will try to find a school close to the home location. Schools ARE important so we have kind of been narrowing places down based on school ratings and word of mouth. So far apex and holly springs seem like two areas where you kind of get that mixture of good schools and not crazy expensive homes.

My wife is dead set on finding a home before we move but I would prefer to live in the area for at least 6 months to get a feel for the towns. I’m sure she will end up winning so the pressure is really on! We are both just really excited to get back to the east coast near family and for our kids to have a lawn to play on.

[Acymetric]

Wow. Thanks to everyone for all the comments. I apologize for my late reply but having three kids under 5 barely leaves me enough time to sleep at night.

I work from home so commute isn’t an issue for me. My wife is a teacher so she will try to find a school close to the home location. Schools ARE important so we have kind of been narrowing places down based on school ratings and word of mouth. So far apex and holly springs seem like two areas where you kind of get that mixture of good schools and not crazy expensive homes.

My wife is dead set on finding a home before we move but I would prefer to live in the area for at least 6 months to get a feel for the towns. I’m sure she will end up winning so the pressure is really on! We are both just really excited to get back to the east coast near family and for our kids to have a lawn to play on.

Best of luck! A six month trial period sounds like a good idea, but I can understand wanting to have a house picked out ahead of time rather than having to move twice. I've known several people with kids who moved to Holly Springs and Apex, and they have all been very happy there, two good options for sure.

[sagegrouse]

Best of luck! A six month trial period sounds like a good idea, but I can understand wanting to have a house picked out ahead of time rather than having to move twice. I've known several people with kids who moved to Holly Springs and Apex, and they have all been very happy there, two good options for sure.

I moved from LA to Washington DC many moons ago with a 1 YO and a 2YO in the middle of the winter. I can't imagine not having decided on a house ahead of time. Will anyone rent a house to you for six months? If not, you are in a temporary apartment situation with three kids. Probably better to buy at a reasonable value and, if you decide another community is better, relocate later.

It's a separate issue, but the look and feel of a neighborhood are also important. Some neighborhoods just seem "kid-friendly," which is very important with your family.

[jimsumner]

Wow. Thanks to everyone for all the comments. I apologize for my late reply but having three kids under 5 barely leaves me enough time to sleep at night.

I work from home so commute isn’t an issue for me. My wife is a teacher so she will try to find a school close to the home location. Schools ARE important so we have kind of been narrowing places down based on school ratings and word of mouth. So far apex and holly springs seem like two areas where you kind of get that mixture of good schools and not crazy expensive homes.

My wife is dead set on finding a home before we move but I would prefer to live in the area for at least 6 months to get a feel for the towns. I’m sure she will end up winning so the pressure is really on! We are both just really excited to get back to the east coast near family and for our kids to have a lawn to play on.

Two good choices for a family with three kids that age. Apex is a bit closer to Raleigh and Durham and you might not be as reliant on a toll road to get around. Both towns are growing rapidly but Apex has been around longer than Holly Springs, so there might be a bit more tradition. But a lot of that open space in western Wake County isn't going to be open space much longer.

I realize it's going to be some time before your kids are on high school but Green Hope High School is in that vicinity and it is very, very highly regarded.

This ranking has GHHS as the number four ranked h.s. in the Metro Raleigh area.

https://www.carolinaschoolhub.com/gr...ol-cary-nc.cfm

And no, no one I know ever attended or worked for GHHS.

[Indoor66]

There are parts of Raleigh that are 40 minutes from other parts of Raleigh. Seriously. I live in west Raleigh and I can get to Southpoint in Durham quicker than I can get to some northeast Raleigh shopping centers.

Look, I'm old and decrepit and live in the suburbs. But downtown Raleigh has lots of high-rises, quality restaurants, craft breweries and hip, high-tech industries. You can't go two blocks in downtown Raleigh without bumping into a Beard Awards semifinalist.

And Raleigh has a GREAT greenway system.

Durham has one thing that Raleigh doesn't, a downtown sports facility. And Durham has developed quite a scene around the Bulls park. Raleigh was on the way to a downtown soccer facility before COVID shut things down. It's on hold, not dead.

And the Durham Performing Arts Center kicks Raleigh's butt for musicals, national touring musicals like Hamilton or Book of Mormon.

But the North Carolina Symphony, Carolina Ballet and North Carolina Opera are all centered in Raleigh. So, Raleigh kicks Durham's butt for classical music. Raleigh hosts the International Bluegrass Festival, Durham the American Dance Festival. Raleigh has the North Carolina State Fair, Durham has the Durham Blues Festival. Raleigh has bigger concert venues, PNC Arena and Walnut Creek amphitheater, with whatever corporate sponsor has naming rights.

And Raleigh is the state capital, so it has all those state museums.

And Raleigh has a National Hockey League team.

Different strokes for different folks. Some of this matters a lot to some people, some not at all. If urban living floats your boat, Raleigh and Durham will scratch that itch. Suburbs, small towns, college towns, even some remaining country-living options abound throughout the Triangle. You have lots of options. Lots.

Let me throw in a word for Umstead State Park, almost 6,000 acres of woods and trails and lakes and streams. Between Raleigh and Durham and Cary, close to the airport. If you have any interest in running, walking or biking, then this is the Triangle's jewel.

And, oh, yes, world-class health facilities. Have a life-threatening illness or two and the Triangle is a GREAT place to live.

Jim, does the Symphony still do the summer concerts/shows in the Cary Park? They are/were a wonderful summer picnic and music evening.

[jimsumner]

Jim, does the Symphony still do the summer concerts/shows in the Cary Park? They are/were a wonderful summer picnic and music evening.

Not this summer obviously. But in the non-COVID-19 universe, yes. And it's a great way to spend a summer evening.

[LasVegas]

Also, a daycare recommendation that doesn’t equal college tuition at a state school would be appreciated!

[LasVegas]

I moved from LA to Washington DC many moons ago with a 1 YO and a 2YO in the middle of the winter. I can't imagine not having decided on a house ahead of time. Will anyone rent a house to you for six months? If not, you are in a temporary apartment situation with three kids. Probably better to buy at a reasonable value and, if you decide another community is better, relocate later.

It's a separate issue, but the look and feel of a neighborhood are also important. Some neighborhoods just seem "kid-friendly," which is very important with your family.

That’s a good point about the 6 month lease and it’s something I’ll have to research. There is just no optimal way to do it and it stinks. You either move your family into a rental for 6 months to a year or basically gamble on a town you think would be a good fit.

[Devilwin]

Anywhere in NC you cannot go wrong...I prefer the Triad area myself, Greensboro, Winston Salem, and High Point. Lots of things to do, and still one can hear authentic southern accents. But Durham has Duke University, so there ya go..The mountains and coast are beautiful, and the residents are friendly..Anywhere you choose you will be welcomed I am sure.

[aimo]

Every time we drive by there, I yell out 'ELfland!' at the top of my lungs, and proclaim "that's where the elves live!"

My wife thinks I'm hilarious</sarcasm>

Oh, it's always been Elf-land to me. I used to go to auctions there. Across the railroad tracks. In that cinder block building.

[PackMan97]

This ranking has GHHS as the number four ranked h.s. in the Metro Raleigh area.

https://www.carolinaschoolhub.com/gr...ol-cary-nc.cfm

And no, no one I know ever attended or worked for GHHS.

Home prices in the GHHS district are pricey! $$$$$

Additionally, from a few people I knew who have had kids attend GHHS, that place is seriously toxic with competition if you are trying to do any extracurriculars. Things are hyper-competitive for almost everything and clothing, cars, and your parents net worth are measuring sticks. It really doesn't sound like a place I'd want to send my kids.

[sagegrouse]

That’s a good point about the 6 month lease and it’s something I’ll have to research. There is just no optimal way to do it and it stinks. You either move your family into a rental for 6 months to a year or basically gamble on a town you think would be a good fit.

I assume you have friends and family in the Triangle area, who know you and your wife personally and will advise on what communities might be a good fit for your family. The advice here is undoubtedly useful, but, you know, "it's different streets for different peeps." Sorry. I'll leave now.